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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Veredyn View Post
    What the hell for? WW monk is superior to Frost DK and BrM Monk is superior to Blood DK. Your guild's leadership is stupid unless you have like five Monks in the raid who all outperform you.
    Blood and because Death Grip/Gorefiends.
    DK/Main,Monk/Alt,Druid/Alt, Logs. Meine Gilde rekrutiert. Bei Interesse kontaktiert mich hier, unsere Offiziere in Game oder bewerbt euch direkt auf unserer Website.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Veredyn View Post
    What the hell for? WW monk is superior to Frost DK and BrM Monk is superior to Blood DK. Your guild's leadership is stupid unless you have like five Monks in the raid who all outperform you.
    BRM is only strong for one boss, and that's Mythic Argus.
    For all other Bosses he is middle of the pack or garbage (hello Varimathras) while Blood DK on the other hand can shine on almost every single boss since he is, almost, unkillable right now and/or have grips.
    ~ All paths lead to the end, but you have to choose if you attack or defend ~

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Greif9 View Post
    Blood and because Death Grip/Gorefiends.
    Ahh yea I suppose there's some utility to be had. My guild doesn't have a DK tank so I find myself not missing it - but then again I might be biased since I'm a Spriest and not as concerned with mob stacking than most classes.
    Do not ask questions for which you do not want the answers.

  4. #344
    Not sure if this was asked, but do the pantheon trinkets use your loot spec or as a DH that has a DPS pantheon trinket, can I get tank one without having to switch loot spec?

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Bareno View Post
    Not sure if this was asked, but do the pantheon trinkets use your loot spec or as a DH that has a DPS pantheon trinket, can I get tank one without having to switch loot spec?
    Yes it uses loot spec, got a dps one on my DH tank because I was in havoc loot spec while tanking.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Aktec View Post
    Yes it uses loot spec, got a dps one on my DH tank because I was in havoc loot spec while tanking.
    I'm more curious bout the fact that since I already have the dps one, if I'll have to manually switch loot spec for the tank one. If it uses the same system as the garrosh heirloom drops I don't THINK that's the case...?

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Bareno View Post
    I'm more curious bout the fact that since I already have the dps one, if I'll have to manually switch loot spec for the tank one. If it uses the same system as the garrosh heirloom drops I don't THINK that's the case...?
    You'll get a random offspec trinket if you already have your current loot spec's trinket. Confirmed by a lucky bastard... no, not me.

  8. #348
    Ah ye sry didnt read, yes it works like legendaries do this expansion, once you got all the ones for your spec you will get ones for random other spec.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Veredyn View Post
    Ahh yea I suppose there's some utility to be had. My guild doesn't have a DK tank so I find myself not missing it - but then again I might be biased since I'm a Spriest and not as concerned with mob stacking than most classes.
    I'm curious to see how do you deal with mythic Aggramar with no grips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veredyn View Post
    Because if you get it on a toon, that toon is now your main, end of story.
    Had a resto druid alt with 900-910 relics yday in a court of stars m+ pug with Aman'thuls. Yes, the trinket not the shoulder. Tbh at this point you'd rather not have it because the grief you get from envious people is worse than the performance increase it provides. :P

  10. #350
    Immortal Brewmaster Kolee's Avatar
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    If I read this right, we only need 1000 Argus kills, on average, to loot Aman'Thul's? Maybe 2000 for those of us with bad RNG?
    I fully expect to get it, almost certainly in mid-September, roughly 1/2 week before launch of BfA.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Had a resto druid alt with 900-910 relics yday in a court of stars m+ pug with Aman'thuls. Yes, the trinket not the shoulder. Tbh at this point you'd rather not have it because the grief you get from envious people is worse than the performance increase it provides. :P
    Might have been my friend. He recently renamed his druid, and I don't remember new name, but he is on Dath'Remar (Oceanic). Crazy thing is, he got Aman'Thul's AND another good legendary AND a bis relic all in same run of N Antorus.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If average drop rate continues to be 0.115% (average through first 7 weeks), and if we kill Argus every week between now and late September, that gives us each roughly 4% chance of ever having Aman'Thul's. Not griping, just preparing to keep my expectations realistic.

    "Remember it's a game. Have a beer buff. Chill." ~ Brewmaster Kolee

  11. #351
    Blademaster Thwunder's Avatar
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    You are right, its a statistically unlikely chance you will ever get this trinket. People should put more faith in 1% drop mounts and hope they get those since they will at least last longer than just this raid tier.

  12. #352
    I don't think it's Blizzard plan that the legendary trinket is to keep it pretty much unabtainable. I expect a significantly increased drop chance, perhaps tied to a trigger like having the epic pantheon trinket fully maxed. We'll see in a few weeks.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewmaster Kolee View Post
    Might have been my friend. He recently renamed his druid, and I don't remember new name, but he is on Dath'Remar (Oceanic).
    Nop, I'm on EU realms.

  14. #354
    I'm officially the last person not to have a pantheon trinket in my 25man raid team, This is ridicilous

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by gratax View Post
    I'm officially the last person not to have a pantheon trinket in my 25man raid team, This is ridicilous
    Well, got mine wednesday, making it it instantly 970, only to realize in the first raid to use it today that both healing procs (trinket proc + patheon proc) together not even accounted for 3% of my overal healing on my druid.
    So perhaps you find comfort in the thought it might also suck for your spec.

  16. #356
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Well, got mine wednesday, making it it instantly 970, only to realize in the first raid to use it today that both healing procs (trinket proc + patheon proc) together not even accounted for 3% of my overal healing on my druid.
    So perhaps you find comfort in the thought it might also suck for your spec.
    And let's not forget that out of this 3%, the "Pantheon" proc is probably around 0.2%, while the other one is pretty much the same as Mistress trinket. It's enough to turn the idea from "that's pretty cool" to "welp, it's nearly useless for me, but it buffs the dpsers, so..."

    Someone really overestimated just how powerful this things were going to be.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    And let's not forget that out of this 3%, the "Pantheon" proc is probably around 0.2%, while the other one is pretty much the same as Mistress trinket. It's enough to turn the idea from "that's pretty cool" to "welp, it's nearly useless for me, but it buffs the dpsers, so..."

    Someone really overestimated just how powerful this things were going to be.
    It's a shame you can't see the direct impact of how much 4K intellect improves your healing on the breakdown, because that's where a lot of the trinkets' bulk is comming from.

    I mean, think about it for a sec - even if the trinket is only providing the same amount of healing as a mistress trinket, even a 970 sea star "only" has 1.5K vers - a 970 pantheon has 4K intellect. Are you going to tell me the 1500 vers is even close to 4K intellect in terms of how much power it adds to your throughput? Because I'd be willing to call "fucking bullshit", as that means vers would have to be worth 2.5 times as much as int on a point-per-point basis. Even for the most insane of scaling for DPS (like my affliction warlock that's somehow managed to only have 15% crit in 965 ilvl), this is only *just* happening with crit due to how little I have of it and 3x relics that improves crit damage.


    (Also, looking at the top resto druids on mythic aggramar, the pantheon tends to be about 4% of their healing, not 3% - and that's the "best of the best". It's going to increase in usefulness the worse you, as a player, is, because it's a RPPM proc that does smart healing - you don't have to think about it at all, so if you're worse at choosing targets to heal, or go OOM too quick etc, the trinket will pull more weight).


    The trinket isn't shit in any way, capacity or form, because it has a fucking HUGE chunk of mainstat on it and it's only at half power right now (the proc's gonna go from 168K every 2 sec for 12, AKA 1M, to 222K per tick, AKA 1.33M per proc, a long with gaining an additional 1.2K int).


    That being said, healers have *great* options this tier, so I can understand why it's hard to make a choice. Carafe, while providing zero healing throughput outside of a chunk of int, does provide excellent mana regen which makes some healers smoother to play. Highfathers provides *excellent* healing output during progression (I've seen as high as 7-8%), and it heals when it's *needed*, not just at random due to the 50% trigger. It falls short because it has mastery (which has the same issue as vers for seastar - almost no scaling with ilvl).

    And velens is an ever-present, omnipotent power house that beats every other healing trinket by a landslide due to the same benefits of the pantheon trinket (*huge* stat budget), a long with an incredibly powerful on-use.

    So yea, picking 2 of the 4 trinkets to wear is a fucking hassle. But saying the eonar trinket is bad because the proc isn't miles ahead of trinkets whose entire stat budget is spent on a secondary stat is just dumb. As a rule of thumb I'd wear highfathers+carafe for a progress boss I don't know the patterns of personally (because carafe allows me to spam to make up for mistakes, and highfathers proc corrects mistakes), switching either for Eonars to gain raid DPS depending on what became comfortable first (mana or being able to deal with mistakes/raid healing). Velens for pure-output type situations where I'd wear velens+eonar on my healers (assuming they HAVE 2 other good legendaries).
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2018-01-16 at 08:32 AM.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    It's a shame you can't see the direct impact of how much 4K intellect improves your healing on the breakdown, because that's where a lot of the trinkets' bulk is comming from.

    I mean, think about it for a sec - even if the trinket is only providing the same amount of healing as a mistress trinket, even a 970 sea star "only" has 1.5K vers - a 970 pantheon has 4K intellect. Are you going to tell me the 1500 vers is even close to 4K intellect in terms of how much power it adds to your throughput?
    Sure, but you seem to forget that in the instance alone two healing trinkets drop with the same mainstat (itemlevel dependent) and a proc (haste / manareg), and there als exist many realistic alternatives from m+ as well as the unicorns, aka socketed high level stat sticks or even arcano or amanthuls.

    Obviously the itemlevel will make Eonar so strong over time that it is unlikely there is an alternative. But not because the proc or the mechanic of the trinket is good, but simply because of the itemlevel. And that's a pity, going over warcraftlogs now you see all kinds of trinkets in use besides velens.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Sure, but you seem to forget that in the instance alone two healing trinkets drop with the same mainstat (itemlevel dependent) and a proc (haste / manareg), and there als exist many realistic alternatives from m+ as well as the unicorns, aka socketed high level stat sticks or even arcano or amanthuls.

    Obviously the itemlevel will make Eonar so strong over time that it is unlikely there is an alternative. But not because the proc or the mechanic of the trinket is good, but simply because of the itemlevel. And that's a pity, going over warcraftlogs now you see all kinds of trinkets in use besides velens.
    To be brutally honest, I barely see anyone using Garothi's trinket, so I didn't include it. IIRC the only healer that specifically wants haste is resto druid and disc (and disc is pretty much perma-locked into velens+carafe due to the very aggressive playstyle and Lights' wrath interaction with Velens' on use), but as we're talking about a resto druid, that's a fair shout.

    If you've got experience with it, do you know if it's "relatively" easy to keep rolling, or sporadic? Because there's a lot to be said for consistency for healers as well (which is why I'm putting emphasis on huge mainstat and things like the Highfather effect that only triggers when needed).

    While I'll buy it right now, I'm dubious about arcanocrystal outside of some WILD titanforge. I've got a 925 one on my DK, and it's "only" providing 1080 of each stat, for a combined total of 4320 secondaries. That means secondaries would have to outweight the healing proc from Eonar's at 1000, AND ~1k int. I'll buy the 1k int easily, but the extra power on the healing proc that should do ~5-6% at full power seems dubious. And that's a titanforged arcano.


    That being said, the proc/mechanic of the trinket can be argued is good for some, but not others. I'd honestly say resto druids have it the best (followed by disc, then shamans) - there's virtually no chance you *won't* spend your pantheon proc, because it only requires you to cast 4 rejuvenations in a 30 second timeframe. At max power, each shield is close to 440K as well. Looking at the top resto druid for Aggramar, his rejuv ticks for about 150K (raw healing, includes overheal), so that means at full power, eonar's proc might as well be reworded:

    "When proc'd, your next 4 rejuvenations instantly applies 3 ticks worth of rejuvenation as a shield". which to be quite frank seems like a great healing proc to me. Yea, the "random AOE healing from ordinary proc" is boring as fuck, but it's not like it's any different from trinkets healers have taken a shine to in the past - mainly because added "free" output that costs you no effort is nice, but RNG swings in stats (like garothi) isn't as fun when you need to be reliable.

    The trinket is actually far more pitiful for a few of the other healers - fuck, on my priest I'd love to use it as disc (because it applies shields on plea) but can't unless I have an innervate or wisdom to feed me mana (otherwise, it's carafe all the way), but as holy, I need to *flash heal* to trigger the proc. My most mana-inefficient heal of the bunch, casted no less. I barely cast 4 flash heals a fight if I'm not wearing the class ring due to binding heal - let alone 4 in 30 seconds. Meanwhile resto shaman gets it on healing wave, the equivelant to a priests' heal spell, and due to tidal waves, HW is insanely quick and mana efficient to throw out as a spot heal, so there's zero issues using the proc there.

    It's sort of stupid, really.

  20. #360
    Heres hoping the patch doesn't break the BLP somehow. Should be about a 80% chance this week

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