Drop rate statistics for Amanthul's Vision and other Pantheon trinkets

[Softbottom]

Maybe he forgot that pantheon proc only works in raid? That's assuming this is actually "you don't appreciate ATV because you don't run hard content" type of post.

lol probably. My guild's main team is on Mythic Argus and our other raid team is 5/11 I believe and we we have a heroic team that runs for people who don't really raid anymore or have time to raid but still want to see content; so I'm not really sure what hes trying to get at. Like you said; he probably forgot it doesn't proc in m+. It just seems kinda dumb that this far into the raid tier not a single person across any of our teams have the trinket yet.

[Deleted]

But the tertiary stats proc can still proc in m+ right? That and the extra 1400 versatility probably makes you able to survive some one shot mechanics at higher levels. If get proc you are suddenly taking 20% less aoe damage and can save a cd for later.

[ID811717]

But the tertiary stats proc can still proc in m+ right? That and the extra 1400 versatility probably makes you able to survive some one shot mechanics at higher levels. If get proc you are suddenly taking 20% less aoe damage and can save a cd for later.

Unless you are already wearing a gear set with 20% avoidance (which is the avoidance cap) for the specific boss fight... In which case, the avoidance portion of the proc is entirely useless.

[Softbottom]

But the tertiary stats proc can still proc in m+ right? That and the extra 1400 versatility probably makes you able to survive some one shot mechanics at higher levels. If get proc you are suddenly taking 20% less aoe damage and can save a cd for later.

I agree it can be useful but again you are depending on the proc to go off. If the stars align it is a wicked trinket; It's an arcano on crack with a decent proc. Again the issue being it's drop rate is horrendous.

[Deleted]

Well to be fair, IF BLP exists for amanthul, it should have started MUCH higher. I mean, the expansion is about 25 weeks away, remove 4 weeks since they'll have the usual huge nerfs for the pre patch, we're left with what, 21 weeks. Even if you get vision 100% in 10 weeks, that leaves 11 weeks of it, which is basically nothing. Considering its a trinket good only for half classes compared to the 1000 norgannon everyone already have, its bullshit its so hard to get. They totally fucked up with vision.

huge nerfs in prepatch? you always do more damage in prepatch even with the squish you killed bossed twice as fast as pre-squish.

[rogoth]

huh? /10 chars

the non pantheon proc effect is a stupidly powerful effect for all classes in M+, especially those that can't reliably heal (aka mages) from the leech, also the avoidance is really helpful for mitigating many of the mechanics in M+ which are aoe focused to challenge the healer of the group so helping the healer out is a huge benefit nevermind the static stats giving a huge benefit themselves.

[Deleted]

Unless you are already wearing a gear set with 20% avoidance (which is the avoidance cap) for the specific boss fight... In which case, the avoidance portion of the proc is entirely useless.

Usually my avoidance gear is 30 ilvl lower than my normal gear so for me I lose almost 10ilvl worth of stats to get that 20%, thats a huge amount of HP that I also need

[KaPe]

huge nerfs in prepatch? you always do more damage in prepatch even with the squish you killed bossed twice as fast as pre-squish.

Did you forget that Legion prepatch required massive nerfs to HFC (nearly 50% or so?) because classes were far weaker than before? No, being stronger in prepatch isn't a rule anymore, and it's very likely this will happen again with BFA, seeing how we'll lose our artifact weapon without any real compensation.

[Softbottom]

the non pantheon proc effect is a stupidly powerful effect for all classes in M+, especially those that can't reliably heal (aka mages) from the leech, also the avoidance is really helpful for mitigating many of the mechanics in M+ which are aoe focused to challenge the healer of the group so helping the healer out is a huge benefit nevermind the static stats giving a huge benefit themselves.

Thank you for the clarification. I don't run anything higher than 15-17 and only once a week for the weekly cache . I can see how that can be useful for players pushing 20+'s though. Again though; the drop rate is retarded.

[Onikaroshi]

Did you forget that Legion prepatch required massive nerfs to HFC (nearly 50% or so?) because classes were far weaker than before? No, being stronger in prepatch isn't a rule anymore, and it's very likely this will happen again with BFA, seeing how we'll lose our artifact weapon without any real compensation.

Legion was balanced around abilities and passive we didn't have, we still have some of that going to into BfA, but I feel it will be strongly outweighed by the squish. The last squish turned mythic SoO into a massively unbalanced stompfest.

[impending doom]

Update: Data for start of week 16, only characters who have killed Argus every week. Drop rate this week a little lower than last week, still slightly above average though. With such a low drop rate it's impossible to tell if it's just normal statistical variance or any real change in drop chance. Have to wait few more weeks I guess.

Aman'Thul's Vision:
Week 16: 6560 characters --- 8 drops - Drop rate: 0.122% (error margin 0.041% - 0.304%)

[Deleted]

I think Amanthul is BIS for 3-4 classes at most and among them only for Shadow Priests its OMGBIS, marginal for the rest. Not sure what big deal is.

[Toybox]

I think Amanthul is BIS for 3-4 classes at most and among them only for Shadow Priests its OMGBIS, marginal for the rest. Not sure what big deal is.

Every tank would kill for it, especially in M+. Those raw stats & a huge leech proc is absolutely ludicrous.

[Dracodraco]

I think Amanthul is BIS for 3-4 classes at most and among them only for Shadow Priests its OMGBIS, marginal for the rest. Not sure what big deal is.

Hunters would like a word. Especially outside of a setup that can trigger the pantheon proc, as the base proc (tornado) splits damage between targets, making it super shitty for any AOE (versus casters, who gets a fat 17K int proc and mastery baseline).

[Sxq]

Hunters would like a word. Especially outside of a setup that can trigger the pantheon proc, as the base proc (tornado) splits damage between targets, making it super shitty for any AOE (versus casters, who gets a fat 17K int proc and mastery baseline).

Int is the worst stat for most casters, and mastery is bad for a lot of them. The empowered proc doesn't do any aoe either. At least the agility trinket empowered proc is aoe.

[Veiled Shadow]

Int is the worst stat for most casters, and mastery is bad for a lot of them. The empowered proc doesn't do any aoe either. At least the agility trinket empowered proc is aoe.

It doesn't really matter that int is the worst stat since it procs at a much higher amount relative to secondaries, and scales with trinket ilevel much better. Also it's generally a bit better on AoE as compared to single target for the specs I'm familiar with, might differ in some cases.

[munkeyinorbit]

today I encountered a warrior who told me that he boosted his character 2 weeks ago. he got aggramar tmog & argus from LFR. Surprisingly, he also got aman'thul from normal argus with me. thankfully, he didn't also get his pantheon trinket, otherwise i would have punched my monitor.

Shnider: "Want to see the hole in the wall where I punched it when I was real angry?"
Some girl he's trying to impress: "Uh...I have to go."

What? A video game does that to you? Might be time to quit.

[Dracodraco]

Int is the worst stat for most casters, and mastery is bad for a lot of them. The empowered proc doesn't do any aoe either. At least the agility trinket empowered proc is aoe.

Doesn't matter if something is bad. 17K of it is a lot. The top ranking shadow priests, for which the trinket is the worst, are still using the pantheon trinket because 17K intellect is just such an absurdly huge amount. Doesn't matter if haste is twice as good as int, this still comes out to being 8.5K haste then, in a tier where the BiS trinket for casters is a int-stick that provides basically ~1.4K of each secondary stat on average.

Also, think about what you're saying - the pantheon proc, the thing that can *only happen inside Antorus* is scaling with AOE. The passive proc that can proc anywhere is pure singletarget.

How many bosses in Antorus do you know to have any significant amount of AOE? I count High Command and Eonar - two bosses that took less than five pulls to kill for any guild worth their salt in 950 item level, at a point where basically nobody in the guilds had pantheon trinkets (and the proc was not even happening).

So yea, I'd much rather have the AOE-focused proc be the one that can proc outside of a raid tier with the least amount of AOE that I've seen since Terrace of Endless springs. And I'd also much rather one that catapulted *both* my single-target and AOE to a huge degree when it happened, like the caster one.

[Ophenia]

Doesn't matter if something is bad. 17K of it is a lot. The top ranking shadow priests, for which the trinket is the worst, are still using the pantheon trinket because 17K intellect is just such an absurdly huge amount. Doesn't matter if haste is twice as good as int, this still comes out to being 8.5K haste then, in a tier where the BiS trinket for casters is a int-stick that provides basically ~1.4K of each secondary stat on average.

I've had a look at top-ranking specs on Argus Mythic, and every single DPS spec has a Pantheon trinket equipped. Golganneth, Khaz'goroth or Norgannon.

What's the point of this discussion ? Norgannon is way better than Golganneth even though 100% of Agility-users will use Golganneth and 100% of Intellect-users will use Norgannon ?
Both seem to be the "go-to" choice in the raid.

Regarding the case of Shadow Priests, it has more to do with the fact that Shadow Priest need to be haste-capped with any single point of haste after this cap being heavily decreasing, so yeah you'd need something else than Haste on your second trinket. Do you know how many Antorus trinkets are providing you with Crit or Intellect beyond Norgannon ? Exactly, the Catalyst and that's it. So unless you have some godlike 980 titanforged from dungeons bullshit, Norgannon will be preferred.
Itemization in Antorus forces you to play with it.
And I'd rather have the baseline 5k main stat from Golganneth instead of the 20k every now and then of Norgannon. Because with Norgannon, if you're playing a spec relying on burst windows (or ramp-up, as Shadow Priests), your DPS from one pull to another will drastically change because of this proc. Atleast Golganneth is reliable, with this 5k main stat + 5-8% total damage from the procs.

[Dracodraco]

I've had a look at top-ranking specs on Argus Mythic, and every single DPS spec has a Pantheon trinket equipped. Golganneth, Khaz'goroth or Norgannon.


What's the point of this discussion ? Norgannon is way better than Golganneth even though 100% of Agility-users will use Golganneth and 100% of Intellect-users will use Norgannon ?
Both seem to be the "go-to" choice in the raid.

Yea, but you'll notice that my entire rant was based on the fact that it's so much less useful in M+ (which is also a highly competitive scene, just like mythic raiding) than one proc'ing something that scales with *both* aoe and single target. I have to use convergence on my hunter in M+, because it sims far better than a stat-stick pantheon trinket.

Regarding the case of Shadow Priests, it has more to do with the fact that Shadow Priest need to be haste-capped with any single point of haste after this cap being heavily decreasing, so yeah you'd need something else than Haste on your second trinket. Do you know how many Antorus trinkets are providing you with Crit or Intellect beyond Norgannon ? Exactly, the Catalyst and that's it. So unless you have some godlike 980 titanforged from dungeons bullshit, Norgannon will be preferred.
Itemization in Antorus forces you to play with it.
And I'd rather have the baseline 5k main stat from Golganneth instead of the 20k every now and then of Norgannon. Because with Norgannon, if you're playing a spec relying on burst windows (or ramp-up, as Shadow Priests), your DPS from one pull to another will drastically change because of this proc. Atleast Golganneth is reliable, with this 5k main stat + 5-8% total damage from the procs.

Not really super relevant to what I said either. Someone said shadow priests didn't use it because it was bad. I told him otherwise. I understand WHY they use it.