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  1. #561
    Update: Data for start of week 16, only characters who have killed Argus every week. Drop rate this week a little lower than last week, still slightly above average though. With such a low drop rate it's impossible to tell if it's just normal statistical variance or any real change in drop chance. Have to wait few more weeks I guess.

    Aman'Thul's Vision:
    Week 16: 6560 characters --- 8 drops - Drop rate: 0.122% (error margin 0.041% - 0.304%)

  2. #562
    I think Amanthul is BIS for 3-4 classes at most and among them only for Shadow Priests its OMGBIS, marginal for the rest. Not sure what big deal is.

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by trajandreps View Post
    I think Amanthul is BIS for 3-4 classes at most and among them only for Shadow Priests its OMGBIS, marginal for the rest. Not sure what big deal is.
    Every tank would kill for it, especially in M+. Those raw stats & a huge leech proc is absolutely ludicrous.

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by trajandreps View Post
    I think Amanthul is BIS for 3-4 classes at most and among them only for Shadow Priests its OMGBIS, marginal for the rest. Not sure what big deal is.
    Hunters would like a word. Especially outside of a setup that can trigger the pantheon proc, as the base proc (tornado) splits damage between targets, making it super shitty for any AOE (versus casters, who gets a fat 17K int proc and mastery baseline).

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Hunters would like a word. Especially outside of a setup that can trigger the pantheon proc, as the base proc (tornado) splits damage between targets, making it super shitty for any AOE (versus casters, who gets a fat 17K int proc and mastery baseline).
    Int is the worst stat for most casters, and mastery is bad for a lot of them. The empowered proc doesn't do any aoe either. At least the agility trinket empowered proc is aoe.

  6. #566
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sxq View Post
    Int is the worst stat for most casters, and mastery is bad for a lot of them. The empowered proc doesn't do any aoe either. At least the agility trinket empowered proc is aoe.
    It doesn't really matter that int is the worst stat since it procs at a much higher amount relative to secondaries, and scales with trinket ilevel much better. Also it's generally a bit better on AoE as compared to single target for the specs I'm familiar with, might differ in some cases.

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    today I encountered a warrior who told me that he boosted his character 2 weeks ago. he got aggramar tmog & argus from LFR. Surprisingly, he also got aman'thul from normal argus with me. thankfully, he didn't also get his pantheon trinket, otherwise i would have punched my monitor.
    Shnider: "Want to see the hole in the wall where I punched it when I was real angry?"
    Some girl he's trying to impress: "Uh...I have to go."

    What? A video game does that to you? Might be time to quit.
    If they're fighting it's our best chance to save them britches.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Shnider: "Want to see the hole in the wall where I punched it when I was real angry?"
    Some girl he's trying to impress: "Uh...I have to go."

    What? A video game does that to you? Might be time to quit.
    it's ok to get absorbed in a video game in case you didn't know :P

  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by Sxq View Post
    Int is the worst stat for most casters, and mastery is bad for a lot of them. The empowered proc doesn't do any aoe either. At least the agility trinket empowered proc is aoe.
    Doesn't matter if something is bad. 17K of it is a lot. The top ranking shadow priests, for which the trinket is the worst, are still using the pantheon trinket because 17K intellect is just such an absurdly huge amount. Doesn't matter if haste is twice as good as int, this still comes out to being 8.5K haste then, in a tier where the BiS trinket for casters is a int-stick that provides basically ~1.4K of each secondary stat on average.

    Also, think about what you're saying - the pantheon proc, the thing that can *only happen inside Antorus* is scaling with AOE. The passive proc that can proc anywhere is pure singletarget.

    How many bosses in Antorus do you know to have any significant amount of AOE? I count High Command and Eonar - two bosses that took less than five pulls to kill for any guild worth their salt in 950 item level, at a point where basically nobody in the guilds had pantheon trinkets (and the proc was not even happening).

    So yea, I'd much rather have the AOE-focused proc be the one that can proc outside of a raid tier with the least amount of AOE that I've seen since Terrace of Endless springs. And I'd also much rather one that catapulted *both* my single-target and AOE to a huge degree when it happened, like the caster one.

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Doesn't matter if something is bad. 17K of it is a lot. The top ranking shadow priests, for which the trinket is the worst, are still using the pantheon trinket because 17K intellect is just such an absurdly huge amount. Doesn't matter if haste is twice as good as int, this still comes out to being 8.5K haste then, in a tier where the BiS trinket for casters is a int-stick that provides basically ~1.4K of each secondary stat on average.
    I've had a look at top-ranking specs on Argus Mythic, and every single DPS spec has a Pantheon trinket equipped. Golganneth, Khaz'goroth or Norgannon.

    What's the point of this discussion ? Norgannon is way better than Golganneth even though 100% of Agility-users will use Golganneth and 100% of Intellect-users will use Norgannon ?
    Both seem to be the "go-to" choice in the raid.

    Regarding the case of Shadow Priests, it has more to do with the fact that Shadow Priest need to be haste-capped with any single point of haste after this cap being heavily decreasing, so yeah you'd need something else than Haste on your second trinket. Do you know how many Antorus trinkets are providing you with Crit or Intellect beyond Norgannon ? Exactly, the Catalyst and that's it. So unless you have some godlike 980 titanforged from dungeons bullshit, Norgannon will be preferred.
    Itemization in Antorus forces you to play with it.
    And I'd rather have the baseline 5k main stat from Golganneth instead of the 20k every now and then of Norgannon. Because with Norgannon, if you're playing a spec relying on burst windows (or ramp-up, as Shadow Priests), your DPS from one pull to another will drastically change because of this proc. Atleast Golganneth is reliable, with this 5k main stat + 5-8% total damage from the procs.

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    I've had a look at top-ranking specs on Argus Mythic, and every single DPS spec has a Pantheon trinket equipped. Golganneth, Khaz'goroth or Norgannon.


    What's the point of this discussion ? Norgannon is way better than Golganneth even though 100% of Agility-users will use Golganneth and 100% of Intellect-users will use Norgannon ?
    Both seem to be the "go-to" choice in the raid.
    Yea, but you'll notice that my entire rant was based on the fact that it's so much less useful in M+ (which is also a highly competitive scene, just like mythic raiding) than one proc'ing something that scales with *both* aoe and single target. I have to use convergence on my hunter in M+, because it sims far better than a stat-stick pantheon trinket.


    Regarding the case of Shadow Priests, it has more to do with the fact that Shadow Priest need to be haste-capped with any single point of haste after this cap being heavily decreasing, so yeah you'd need something else than Haste on your second trinket. Do you know how many Antorus trinkets are providing you with Crit or Intellect beyond Norgannon ? Exactly, the Catalyst and that's it. So unless you have some godlike 980 titanforged from dungeons bullshit, Norgannon will be preferred.
    Itemization in Antorus forces you to play with it.
    And I'd rather have the baseline 5k main stat from Golganneth instead of the 20k every now and then of Norgannon. Because with Norgannon, if you're playing a spec relying on burst windows (or ramp-up, as Shadow Priests), your DPS from one pull to another will drastically change because of this proc. Atleast Golganneth is reliable, with this 5k main stat + 5-8% total damage from the procs.
    Not really super relevant to what I said either. Someone said shadow priests didn't use it because it was bad. I told him otherwise. I understand WHY they use it.

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    Every tank would kill for it, especially in M+. Those raw stats & a huge leech proc is absolutely ludicrous.
    Aggramar's will be higher dps for almost every tank spec in M+ making it the choice. Aman'thuls is trash for tank dps when you can't activate the secondary proc and no tank is going to rely on a random leech proc for survival.

    Amans would of been great like 8 weeks ago. It's meh for tanks now. Alright in raid, but not much of an upgrade and a downgrade in M+.

  13. #573
    Update: Data for start of week 17, only characters who have killed Argus every week. No significant changes but drop rate still slightly higher than it was few weeks ago.

    Aman'Thul's Vision:
    Week 17: 5868 characters --- 8 drops - Drop rate: 0.136% (error margin 0.045% - 0.340%)


    Edit: Week 18 data not showing any signs of increase in drop rate. If we combine all the data except week 1, the average drop rate is exactly 0.1% and there has been no statistically significant changes in drop rate after week 2.

    Week 18: 5210 characters --- 6 drops - Drop rate: 0.115% (error margin 0.028% - 0.329%)


    Edit2: Week 19 data no real changes in drop rate and my sample size getting smaller again, so I think I will stop weekly tracking for now. After 19 weeks of data the drop rate has been steadily around 0.1% for Aman'thul's Vision, and there does not seem to be any bad luck protection.

    Week 19: 4596 characters --- 3 drops - Drop rate: 0.065% (error margin 0.001% - 0.278%)
    ->
    TOTAL avg for weeks 2-19: 143015 kills - 148 drops - Drop rate: 0.104% (error margin 0.084% - 0.128%)
    Last edited by impending doom; 2018-04-07 at 12:25 AM.

  14. #574
    Chance does not seem to increase every week. I have seen it drop twice since release and i was doing normal-heroic-mythic argus every week (argus mythic started since 2 months ago for me)

  15. #575
    There's currently a bug on argus btw where if you're removed from a group during the fight and they kill it after you're teleported out you'll get locked to Argus on that difficulty and have it counted as a kill but you won't get the pantheon trinket / +5 ilvl upgrade things and you'll have to kill him again on another difficulty for them; it's happened to me twice and i've heard some reports of the same from friends.
    Last edited by Svisalith; 2018-04-11 at 05:43 PM.

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by trajandreps View Post
    I think Amanthul is BIS for 3-4 classes at most and among them only for Shadow Priests its OMGBIS, marginal for the rest. Not sure what big deal is.
    what big deal is ? blizzard is reminding people how the % chance drop legendaries worked so they stop whining about them its a very obvious move

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