rotation with t21 + demonic

[GamerDH]

Seems like the sims do not account for long spells of DA not proccing much if at all. I am starting to wonder how accurate it is.
And wish DA procced more than its 25%.. (more realistically 10-20%)

On a target dummy I am pulling ~1.25M (no buffs) which is way less than my simmed DPS (~2M which of course assumes full buffs).
I am using EB on CD (and pooling souls). Shimmying for souls (when and if they show up).. trying to line up Nemesis with big CD. Using roughly 2 EBs after I've used my CD Meta.

My opener will hit for 2M or even more... then it just goes down after that.
Just feel like I'm missing something here. I follow everything that Shirofune posted but just feel like.. something else is missing. Too much RNG?

I do well if there are multi target fights but ST just scares me.

[Mamut]

I feel like demonic is very incosnistent. Yesterady while progressing in Antorus in one try I was shocked how good numbers I got at opener, almost did not use Demons Bite at all. Then after wipe in another pull i was strugling to get to first 8 and at the end overall was pretty low.
Theres so much RNG involved in our skills, fury generation, fury refunds, additional CS strikes, Inner demon procs. Sometimes I feel like I dont have control over what my DH is doing

[Kreo]

Seems like the sims do not account for long spells of DA not proccing much if at all. I am starting to wonder how accurate it is.
And wish DA procced more than its 25%.. (more realistically 10-20%)

On a target dummy I am pulling ~1.25M (no buffs) which is way less than my simmed DPS (~2M which of course assumes full buffs).
I am using EB on CD (and pooling souls). Shimmying for souls (when and if they show up).. trying to line up Nemesis with big CD. Using roughly 2 EBs after I've used my CD Meta.

My opener will hit for 2M or even more... then it just goes down after that.
Just feel like I'm missing something here. I follow everything that Shirofune posted but just feel like.. something else is missing. Too much RNG?

I do well if there are multi target fights but ST just scares me.

Got my 4 PC set yesterday, sitting at 55% crit, 27% haste, 27% mastery and god know about vers, did everything like in a video, strong opener at 2.2m, but kept going for a while (in the end did almost 2b dmg to that dummy) and final dps was 1.47M. With T20 i sit around 1.75M.
Worst part was not getting souls even after massive CS spam and that was a target practice on a dummy. Collecting souls in actual raid environment scares me tbh.
I like demonic play style to the degree, but so much RNG involved is insane.

[Shirofune]

I also like to ask if the fury/swing is WA or addon - as i keep meaning to sort one out but dont currently have one.

Everything is a Weak Aura

[Kezyah]

I can see the Sephuz ring being useful on a boss fight with interruptable mechanics, as the bonus haste is considerable, but on fights without interrupts or on fights you're not selected into the interrupt rotation, is it really useful? It's just 2% haste on its base stat.

2% haste and over 4k crit (including a crit gem in the socket) at ilvl 1000. That's an enormous amount of our best stat. The other effects are just the cherry on top imo.

[Ielenia]

2% haste and over 4k crit (including a crit gem in the socket) at ilvl 1000. That's an enormous amount of our best stat. The other effects are just the cherry on top imo.

I was under the impression that Mastery pulled ahead of Haste in a demonic build, but I could easily be wrong, here. I'll see how it goes. I'm still waiting for RNGeesus find me worthy and grant me my T21's fourth piece.

[Shirofune]

I was under the impression that Mastery pulled ahead of Haste in a demonic build, but I could easily be wrong, here. I'll see how it goes. I'm still waiting for RNGeesus find me worthy and grant me my T21's fourth piece.

It usually pulls ahead.

The reason Haste is somewhat valuable in Demonic is because of the breakpoints to get another skill into those Eye Beam-Meta windows.

You usually want mastery anyway, filling all those GCD with Annihilations is almost impossible due to fury limitations.

[Measure]

I was under the impression that Mastery pulled ahead of Haste in a demonic build, but I could easily be wrong, here. I'll see how it goes. I'm still waiting for RNGeesus find me worthy and grant me my T21's fourth piece.

966 equip with 10.77 haste these are my current stat weights:

https://imgur.com/a/hhMTn


Haste is ahead slightly until about 15% haste then mastery pulls ahead again.

[Kezyah]

I was under the impression that Mastery pulled ahead of Haste in a demonic build, but I could easily be wrong, here. I'll see how it goes. I'm still waiting for RNGeesus find me worthy and grant me my T21's fourth piece.

It was more the 4,000 crit that the ring offers that I was saying is a big deal. The 2% haste is not the main draw to the item. Sorry I didn't come across more clear in my OP.

[Urve]

First you've to understand how Demonic works, the iterations between Eye Beam, meta, souls and how they extend.

First off, souls. Every time you consume one, you get 35 fury and 5 seconds cooldown reduction on Eye Beam. Knowing that, you should be able to realize there's no point consuming souls when your Eye Beam is ready to use. That's also why you should be using Eye Beam on CD pretty much always (except when there're adds very close to spawning).

Now then, the special iterations between Eye Beam and Metamorphosis.

Using Metamorphosis while already on Meta because of Demonic, ALWAYS extends your current duration to 30 seconds more. That means, if you had 4s Meta and you use the CD, you'll have 34 seconds of Meta.

Using Eye Beam while being on Meta already only extends IF the cause of the most recent extend was the CD. Better explained:

Using Eye Beam twice will NOT extend the duration.
Using Metamorphosis + Eye Beam WILL extend.
Using Eye Beam + Metamorphosis + Eye Beam WILL extend on all of it's applications.
Using Eye Beam + Metamorphosis + Eye Beam + Eye Beam WILL extend on all of it's applications except the last one.

Knowing that, we aim for the maximum uptime of Meta while also being healthy on fury and trying to keep Eye Beam on CD as much as we can. We use Demon Reborn, that means EB gets reset upon using Metamorphosis and as such, there's no point consuming souls before using Metamorphosis.

The proper opener is something like this:

1- Fel Rush to the boss (gap closer)
2- Demon's Bite to 30 Fury (or whatever your Eye Beam costs)
3- Nemesis
4- Fury of the Illidari
5- Eye Beam

At this point, unleash hell until you run out of Fury without consuming souls. There's a misconception here, people like to stay here until Meta runs out. There's no point spamming DBites at this point.

6- When out of Fury, use Metamorphosis. This will reset Eye Beam duration and extend the duration of Metamorphosis 30 seconds.
7- DBite / Arcane Torrent to 30 fury for Eye Beam.
8- Use Eye Beam. This will increase Meta duration another 8 seconds.
9- Unleash hell and proceed with normal rotation. You can consume souls now, keeping an eye you don't overcap fury or consume them when Eye Beam is ready to use.

There's a special situation to mention here. The 2nd Eye Beam will not extend Metamorphosis, but it is not good sitting on it ready for 15+ seconds. What this means is the following. If you've 10-15s remaining on your Meta and your Eye Beam is ready to use, use it. You will still benefict from the T21 4p bonus for the full duration of meta and with a bit of luck you can regain enough souls to use it again when you exit Meta.

What's the point in using dumping fury before your first Meta? Since Meta does nothing but reset your EB here, why not just EB -> immediately Meta -> dump -> EB -> collect souls?

[Kreo]

EB after meta will refill that fury.

[Dizzeeyooo]

EB after meta will refill that fury.

he was asking if there is a difference between EB > Meta > Dump > EB and EB > Dump > Meta > EB

[Happyducky]

Sometimes I feel like I dont have control over what my DH is doing

Got my 4 piece tonight and my dps plummeted and I honestly felt this way. Was utterly deflating since I'm still taking tier pieces over others because I was under the impression I'd do better with it.

Demon hunter is labeled as brain dead easy but it's simply the first time I've felt at a loss as to how to really "master" my class since my parses seem like they are all over the place while on other classes if I practiced and researched I could really do well.

Sorry to get off topic!

[Kezyah]

Got my 4 piece tonight and my dps plummeted and I honestly felt this way.

In my experience it seems like we lost a ton of up front burst, but our sustain is way, way higher than it used to be. So it initially feels like you're doing less damage, but in reality you are doing a lot more. I'd be happy to check out your logs if this hasn't been your experience. There are a lot of nuances to playing the Demonic build properly that you could be missing.

[Valoran]

The advice given here is sound. However, it may not be ideal during lust phases; depending on demonic appetite procs. On fights where we use lust in the beginning, like Varimathras, it is pretty common for me to get enough DA procs during my initial eyebeam-meta transform w/lust+4p to have eyebeam back up immediately after the eyebeam-meta lapses.

Just something to think about. Otherwise, the rotation advice and eyebeam+meta usage given here is perfect. That said, for the lust+4p situations, depending on DA procs, you may be able to have eyebeam up before your initial eyebeam-meta transform wears off by picking up souls during that short window meta.

[Teddybird]

he was asking if there is a difference between EB > Meta > Dump > EB and EB > Dump > Meta > EB

Something im quite interested in as i don't see the difference, I normal EB > meta > dump > EB as u dont risk piking up wasteful souls and far as i see it nothing really changes. I guess you get EB back like 3 gcd faster that might be why?

[Shirofune]

To people wondering why I meta just as I'm out of fury.

It doesn't really matter if you Meta as you're out of fury or as the firsst Meta/T21 4p buff ends. Both openers are similar.

As to why we don't consume souls in the first Eye Beam, it's already explained in the huge post.

We don't EB > Meta > EB because we would waste fury and T21 4p uptime.

[Dizzeeyooo]

To people wondering why I meta just as I'm out of fury.

It doesn't really matter if you Meta as you're out of fury or as the firsst Meta/T21 4p buff ends. Both openers are similar.

As to why we don't consume souls in the first Eye Beam, it's already explained in the huge post.

We don't EB > Meta > EB because we would waste fury and T21 4p uptime.

do you know if there is a difference between EB > Meta > Dump > EB and EB > Dump > Meta > EB, or does the order that you dump and press meta in the opener not matter?

[Teddybird]

It doesn't really matter if you Meta as you're out of fury or as the firsst Meta/T21 4p buff ends. Both openers are similar.

do you know if there is a difference between EB > Meta > Dump > EB and EB > Dump > Meta > EB, or does the order that you dump and press meta in the opener not matter?

I guess the main diff i didn't consider here is the 4p buff (dont have 4set yet), u wouldn't wanna waste to much time with it up.

[Najja]

I run with Demon Reborn so I tend to go with Bite for fury, EB, IF, Spam til mini Meta ends, Meta, EB. That gives you 46 seconds of Meta at the start of the fight by the end of that you have had more than enough time to get EB back off CD once or twice so you might go 52 seconds. From there you pretty much wanna cast EB whenever its up.