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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    It's just very strange. Thru all of WoW's history they've never had an imbalance in specs, nor has there ever been a swing in spec performance with wide gaps in damage between them all.
    I, for one, am completely appalled that this gross oversight has happened, and is allowed to continue to happen, by the Blizzard developers. Truely a horrid blemish on the outstanding track record of Blizzqrd's devs resumes for having perfectly balanced specs that remain strong thru an entire xpac.
    For shame Blizzard! For shame!
    That is totally false. There has been class imbalances since vanilla.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by nToxik View Post
    That is totally false. There has been class imbalances since vanilla.
    What? When? Which ones? I don't believe you.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by nToxik View Post
    That is totally false. There has been class imbalances since vanilla.
    My post was apparently so far over your head it would take a million years of space travel for you to get to the point. :P

  4. #124
    Dreadlord sunxsera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nToxik View Post
    That is totally false. There has been class imbalances since vanilla.
    Sheldon ... is that you ?

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Nythiz View Post
    AotB dot spreading is something I really never heard about before. It seems rather pointless as the DoT only lasts 6 seconds, so there is very little to spread with KC having a >6 sec cooldown generally. The DoT might also be a rolling DoT meaning that spreading is pointless even.

    So I mean it's not really very hard. I guess you're mostly pressing 3-4 buttons, but I think most other classes are pretty close to that number as well. Some might be 1-2 buttons, but I don't think they're that common.
    1. Not a rolling dot
    2. With qpala the CD of kc is lower than the duration of the dot. It becomes worth it to swap targets between kc

    With high crit and haste and qpala there is almost zero down time. I wouldn't say the spec becomes hard to play. But it is really high APM
    Last edited by Shuken; 2018-01-16 at 09:12 PM.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Nythiz View Post
    And if the gap between the average BM and the top BM hunter is really really great. Than either the spec apparently has a high skillcap meaning that BM is not "easiest spec in the game, everyone can do top dps" after all ?
    Well, there's gear as well, you can't assume that everyone is equally geared therefore everyone makes the same dps. Besides, my guess is that top hardcore players who really care about doing the upper max dps possible are not playing BM. I get high parses all the time with little effort and I'm pretty happy with my dps as BM overall.

    As for AoE, most BM hunters aren't even trying. Look at the top parses on Mythic Antoran High Command. Most of them are using single-target talents like Way of the Cobra and some even use Killer Cobra, both talents which are 100% useless on AoE, plus they are all wearing Tier 20 4-piece which is also useless for cleave. So of course the average parse of that build sucks. They aren't even trying.

    Now of course BM is relatively weak on cleave, but BM still does well enough AoE to kill any boss adds on mythic. I would argue some of the top cleaver specs should be nerfed instead.

  7. #127
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Khallid View Post
    As for AoE, most BM hunters aren't even trying. Look at the top parses on Mythic Antoran High Command. Most of them are using single-target talents like Way of the Cobra and some even use Killer Cobra, both talents which are 100% useless on AoE, plus they are all wearing Tier 20 4-piece which is also useless for cleave. So of course the average parse of that build sucks. They aren't even trying.

    Now of course BM is relatively weak on cleave, but BM still does well enough AoE to kill any boss adds on mythic. I would argue some of the top cleaver specs should be nerfed instead.
    Since everyone else is so good at doing aoe compared to a BM hunter and the adds run away all the time, doing more than a single Multishot every time adds spawn is net dps loss. Better for me to focus the boss down and shorten the fight than waste time trying to do dmg to the adds. Noticed the same trend on most fights with adds, our AOE is so bad and takes away too much from our single target dps that it isnt really worth it.

    They could atleast buff beastcleave with an extra yard or 2 and some more dmg or just buff aspect of the wild. Both would help alot. They gave us a few% buff with the NLC since everyone benefited more from the extra weapon ilvls than us. Now that we have 30 ilvl higher relics the same problem occurs again but no compensation buff this time around.
    Last edited by mmoc37c703da14; 2018-01-17 at 10:08 AM.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Klickor View Post
    Since everyone else is so good at doing aoe compared to a BM hunter and the adds run away all the time, doing more than a single Multishot every time adds spawn is net dps loss. Better for me to focus the boss down and shorten the fight than waste time trying to do dmg to the adds. Noticed the same trend on most fights with adds, our AOE is so bad and takes away too much from our single target dps that it isnt really worth it.

    They could atleast buff beastcleave with an extra yard or 2 and some more dmg or just buff aspect of the wild. Both would help alot. They gave us a few% buff with the NLC since everyone benefited more from the extra weapon ilvls than us. Now that we have 30 ilvl higher relics the same problem occurs again but no compensation buff this time around.
    You're clearly exaggerating at multishotting just once per pack. As long as more than one add is alive, cleaving will increase your dps. Even more so if you use a proper cleaving build. And mythic adds don't die in 4 seconds, otherwise nobody would be pulling big numbers. The adds running away is an issue for most classes, not just BM. Obviously you time your multishot when they run back in.

    I know that trying to cleave more when we're not a strong cleaving class can be considered padding, and not necessarily beneficial for progress. But if every other class is padding that just makes our dps look weaker than it really is.

    I do think Beast Cleave needs a bit of a buff. The only thing that increases Beast Cleave power is Furious Swipes, but it's not reasonable to wear Relics with cleaving traits because you can't swap relics or Crucible traits. Personally, I think the best way to improve BM's cleave is to lower the focus cost of Multishot, but it doesn't seem like Blizzard intends to do any class balancing in Legion anymore.

  9. #129

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by bazzzyl View Post
    Did they secretly buff Cobra Commander?
    Used to be ~2% of my dps, now its ~5%.
    Don't think so, it always had a high variance in procs and I had fights where it was >5% in the past already.

    Edit: just checked my HC logs from today and it varied from 1,75 to 4,4% of my dps on single target. Mostly around 2,5%. So seems quite normal to me.
    Last edited by andreasels; 2018-01-19 at 10:16 PM.

  11. #131
    BM hunters are to the end of Legion as Survival hunters were to the end of WoD

  12. #132

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by bazzzyl View Post
    Actually I'm happy with my numbers:
    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...qtFWpRTcwoyKwN
    I wouldn't be. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...Tszt8KTyeKZ4pF

    That's my warlock at 964 equipped vs your bm hunter at 970, and ilevel actually scales lock gear drastically. It's funny how perspective helps.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronan View Post
    Because Survival is melee and MM is as fun to play as getting a root canal. Lots of hunters only play BM because it's the only spec that is fun.
    This but also I don't see Blizz making any changes to BM this raid tier. From what I've read they seem to be happy with "internal numbers" which sadly does not help the community.
    You come from the greatest country in the world. Act like it.

  15. #135
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&dataset=99

    At 99th percentile(heroic), BM is in the bottom 3 specs on every single boss fight in Antorus. Dead last in 5 of them.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormmantis View Post
    Lets face it no single class is overly complicated to play, ease of play should not taken as prio over offering choice when working out damage numbers. Fury, havoc neither of them are exactly hard specs to play yet they both rank high - BM is due a buff and no i'm not expecting it to rank as #1 in one patch but its been consistently low through out Legion.
    >Both of the mentioned are melee, that happen to suffer incredibly from downtime due to lack of dots. Proper bloodbath usage alone makes Fury more complicated than BM, even in a patchwerk situation. Let alone any of the other nuances of the spec.

  17. #137
    Tbf, fury does a heap of damage because of T21... BB doesn't make the spec complicated, it's just that IR made it super easy 123 rotation. Outside of BC and 100 rage, now it's BT and fill x2, whether that's RB or FS or WW.

  18. #138
    people still arguing that BM is not the easiest class period

  19. #139
    Any light at the end of the tunnel? Or are we all waiting for BfA to have a decent experience now?

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Any light at the end of the tunnel? Or are we all waiting for BfA to have a decent experience now?
    I wouldn't assume that BfA is going to have changes that will cater to your liking. If you don't like how BM plays right now, you should seriously consider rerolling (or just switching specs). The only thing we know right now is there are some talent changes to make Dire Frenzy baseline and Stomp an AoE talent that works without Dire Beast, plus a few new talents that don't really change the rotation at all.

    As for balancing, Blizzard has been silent about it. I think they are relatively pleased with the current state of balance and have no intention of buffing BM. If anything, we're likely intentionally weaker. And that might well continue into BfA.

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