Are hunters completely useless.

[Chaelexi]

Yes it does. I've watched a bunch of progression and farm raid streams with lots of "undesirable" specs being used. Hunters are common, you will see ferals and rets.

There are threads and threads of Prot Paladin raid tanking guides, complete with boss kill videos for almost everything in the game.

You have no idea what you're talking about if you think only a handful of specs can or will be played. You have no idea what you're talking about if you think tanks will only be Warriors, Priests and Paladins will only be holy, and all the dps spots will be Rogues & Mages.

I have played on a vanilla server, yeah that's right, not all the bosses worked properly, the best guilds still stacked rogues, warriors and mages, the lower teir guild guilds that had problems clearing everything regularly let people play the spec they wanted to. And Boomkins still went OOM in the first minute of a fight and were at the bottom of meters....lastly as other people said hunter started out good but did not scale worth a damn and were brought cause they had a job to do. Guess what min/maxing happened. Will people cater and work around a less optimal raid group yes because millennials think that everyone should have a spot......guess what there will be no progression guild on a vanilla server that has druids, priest or paladins doing anything but healing(well the one bad healer may end up out of combat resing), stacks hunters or warlocks, uses non warrior tanks, or any thing else that is non cookie cutter.......

[Dazu]

Iirc it was possible for a hunter to have two players frozen in traps at the same time in pvp. Wasn't there a survival talent that reduced trap cd?

I dont remember dual traps but good hunters atleast in TBC could dual crowd control with Wyvern Sting I tihnk it was called (Sleep for 30 seconds) and a frost trap. Normally what hunters did for dual CC in vanilla was trap one and kite a second with cheetah/concussive shot (Last boss in UBRS)

[StraTosSpeAr]

Yes it does. I've watched a bunch of progression and farm raid streams with lots of "undesirable" specs being used. Hunters are common, you will see ferals and rets and moonkins and enhance -- I watched people doing Naxx with a Feral Druid and a Ret Paladin, successfully.

There are threads and threads of Prot Paladin raid tanking guides, complete with boss kill videos for almost everything in the game.

You have no idea what you're talking about if you think only a handful of specs can or will be played. You have no idea what you're talking about if you think tanks will only be Warriors, Priests and Paladins will only be holy, and all the dps spots will be Rogues & Mages.

I seriously question if you have any idea what you're talking about. Did you actually play Vanilla? Actual Vanilla, not private servers where the balance is changed and not accurately representing Vanilla WoW.

I was in a progression guild on one of the most populated servers at the time. We ran with a single Feral Druid in the raid because he was a guild founder and it was a really, really big deal on the server. It just didn't happen normally. The only time you could bring crappy off specs was long after any given tier was released and those players could be pretty much carried.

Anyone who tries to glorify Vanilla as having some kind of amazing spec diversity is full crap. I don't know what world y'all are living in, but it's a blatant lie, pure and simple.

[Nomads]

I have played on a vanilla server, yeah that's right, not all the bosses worked properly, the best guilds still stacked rogues, warriors and mages, the lower teir guild guilds that had problems clearing everything regularly let people play the spec they wanted to. And Boomkins still went OOM in the first minute of a fight and were at the bottom of meters....lastly as other people said hunter started out good but did not scale worth a damn and were brought cause they had a job to do. Guess what min/maxing happened. Will people cater and work around a less optimal raid group yes because millennials think that everyone should have a spot......guess what there will be no progression guild on a vanilla server that has druids, priest or paladins doing anything but healing(well the one bad healer may end up out of combat resing), stacks hunters or warlocks, uses non warrior tanks, or any thing else that is non cookie cutter.......

This is wrong. The Top Tier raiding back in Vanilla DID NOT have the stigma against ret paladins, feral druids, enhancement shaman, or shadow priests like the mid-tier-try-hard guilds did. I was in top 100 ranked guild back in Vanilla. Raided through Naxx, AQ 40, etc, and I can tell you that we had ret paladins, shadow priests, feral druids, and no restrictions on specs. We just had good players, and we killed bosses with all classes and specs.

If you look at the videos of the world-first boss kills, you will see they have all of these specs and classes. The stigma simply did not exist at the top. It was the try-hards who were largely worse at the game, that pushed the "this spec is bad" bullshit you see everywhere.

I played as a mage, and was allowed to play around with my spec as much as I wanted. No one told me I had to spec Fire for ignite crit stacking. I did some raids as frost, and some as Arcane Power specced for lulz.

[Battlebeard]

I main a Rogue on retail, that i played in Vanilla, but now I will play Hunter, which was my alt back then. Vanilla Hunter was just so much fun Far from useless.

[Growel]

BUT, apparently they really suck in vanilla

I wasn't in a min/max kind of guild, but we were nearly done with BWL when TBC came out. I was a Hunter, and typically top 3 DPS on most boss fights. In PVP, I tended to steamroll most other players (but I was better geared than average).\

My experience as a hunter in vanilla is that we were one of the best classes.

One thing is this, however: Hunters are EASY to level. So a lot hit 60 without really knowing how to play well. (So did I, but I learned how to play better AT level 60.)

[Siglius]

Nah man. Tranq shot is da best.

[MMKing]

This is wrong. The Top Tier raiding back in Vanilla DID NOT have the stigma against ret paladins, feral druids, enhancement shaman, or shadow priests like the mid-tier-try-hard guilds did. I was in top 100 ranked guild back in Vanilla. Raided through Naxx, AQ 40, etc, and I can tell you that we had ret paladins, shadow priests, feral druids, and no restrictions on specs. We just had good players, and we killed bosses with all classes and specs.

If you look at the videos of the world-first boss kills, you will see they have all of these specs and classes. The stigma simply did not exist at the top. It was the try-hards who were largely worse at the game, that pushed the "this spec is bad" bullshit you see everywhere.

I played as a mage, and was allowed to play around with my spec as much as I wanted. No one told me I had to spec Fire for ignite crit stacking. I did some raids as frost, and some as Arcane Power specced for lulz.

This

The same people that pushed ''x specc is not even remotely viable''. Are the same people that pushed gear score in WOTLK two expansions down the line.

[Chaelexi]

This is wrong. The Top Tier raiding back in Vanilla DID NOT have the stigma against ret paladins, feral druids, enhancement shaman, or shadow priests like the mid-tier-try-hard guilds did. I was in top 100 ranked guild back in Vanilla. Raided through Naxx, AQ 40, etc, and I can tell you that we had ret paladins, shadow priests, feral druids, and no restrictions on specs. We just had good players, and we killed bosses with all classes and specs.

If you look at the videos of the world-first boss kills, you will see they have all of these specs and classes. The stigma simply did not exist at the top. It was the try-hards who were largely worse at the game, that pushed the "this spec is bad" bullshit you see everywhere.

I played as a mage, and was allowed to play around with my spec as much as I wanted. No one told me I had to spec Fire for ignite crit stacking. I did some raids as frost, and some as Arcane Power specced for lulz.

There is a reason you were top 100 and not top 10....... guess what I was top 5 at the time...... Ever heard of Deus Vox.......yeah I was one of the only 2 locks in raid and the reason we had 2 was the guy who wrote all of the addons for the guild, including boss mods and timers in vanilla, his girlfriend was the other lock...... The top progression guilds ran for DPS Mages, Rogues and Warriors. The rest of the classes that did damage were there to buff other classes. Locks there to use curse of Elements and Curse of Recklessness(except on Patchwork and a few other overly hard hitting bosses).

[Santoryu]

They are in fact extremely useful and, indeed, essential for certain encounters, like Magmadar, Chromaggus and Gluth, to name a few. In addition, they are phenomenal kiters and are of great value in every raid.

[Chaelexi]

I wasn't in a min/max kind of guild, but we were nearly done with BWL when TBC came out. I was a Hunter, and typically top 3 DPS on most boss fights. In PVP, I tended to steamroll most other players (but I was better geared than average).\

My experience as a hunter in vanilla is that we were one of the best classes.

One thing is this, however: Hunters are EASY to level. So a lot hit 60 without really knowing how to play well. (So did I, but I learned how to play better AT level 60.)

BWL was the peak for hunters, they got the Xbow off of Chromag and that allowed them to not have to clip the rotation but after that most other classes finally got gear that was itemized well for them, this is especially true for Fury Warriors in the AQ raids and mages could finally go fire spec in AQ40 and Naxx which allowed them to hit like a bus.

[Nomads]

There is a reason you were top 100 and not top 10....... guess what I was top 5 at the time...... Ever heard of Deus Vox.......yeah I was one of the only 2 locks in raid and the reason we had 2 was the guy who wrote all of the addons for the guild, including boss mods and timers in vanilla, his girlfriend was the other lock...... The top progression guilds ran for DPS Mages, Rogues and Warriors. The rest of the classes that did damage were there to buff other classes. Locks there to use curse of Elements and Curse of Recklessness(except on Patchwork and a few other overly hard hitting bosses).

Who cares? The difference between top 10 and top 100 is what? A few days? A few weeks? I'd gladly trade that to be able to play the game how I want.

[Chaelexi]

Who cares? The difference between top 10 and top 100 is what? A few days? A few weeks? I'd gladly trade that to be able to play the game how I want.

In original Naxx it was months. We were selling gear in Naxx while the top 100 were still clearing.

[danbaban]

No. Melee DPS are the best, but they receive the proper raid comp for it-- Windfury and Trueshot.

Give a Hunter Shaman Agi totem + Survival spec + pet buffs + a Trueshot in the party ( you can roll 3 SV hunters, 1 MM hunter, 1 Shaman ) and they will compete with melee DPS.

[Soon-TM]

(I made a thread on reddit about it):

I was really interested in the autoshot + spell weaving system, the kiting, traps, cc, viper sting, rage dispell and so on in pvp and pve, and the fact that the class seems interesting in pve compared to all these 1 button spamming casters.

BUT, apparently they really suck in vanilla, and although I did play a few other classes on nostalrius, I never tried a hunter.

So, how is it at the end of the day? Is hunter just not worth it at all both in pvp and pve, or is there something that makes them worth playing?

Thanks a lot

If by "useful" you mean "topping raid DPS charts 24/7" then by all means they are useless. Not that any raid or dungeon group will make it without heavy CC, kiting, and aggro management, where hunters excel. Skilled hunters were rare, but valuable assets for the guild.

[Echocho]

It really depends on which version of each class Blizzard choose to go with, a lot happened over the course of vanilla. If they go with the 1.12 version of every class like most private servers do expect to see mostly rogues and warriors.

I'd expect them to cherry pick the state of the classes to create a more balanced class representation though in which case hunter might not be a bad choice.

[Staysafe]

Hunters aren't useless at all. Every raid and premade will need at least one, if not several of them.

[MardestyGSOG]

I ran wc last night with a hunter while I tanked, we had a mate. I told him clearly, triangle=pet tank, moon=sheep, he would serpent sting every mob including the moon, and attack skull with his pet while triangle attacked me, serpent sting on moon so we can't sheep it.

After killing all but 2 bosses he finally understood not to serpent sting moon, but would still multishot with a sheep nearby... and still didn't understand to pet tank triangle, and on the rare occasion he picked up the mob, he didn't use mend pet and it died.

That is the mass majority of hunters in vanilla, BUT, when you get one that can CC with freeze trap and kite well and pet tank, it's extremely useful

[Nomads]

I ran wc last night with a hunter while I tanked, we had a mate. I told him clearly, triangle=pet tank, moon=sheep, he would serpent sting every mob including the moon, and attack skull with his pet while triangle attacked me, serpent sting on moon so we can't sheep it.

After killing all but 2 bosses he finally understood not to serpent sting moon, but would still multishot with a sheep nearby... and still didn't understand to pet tank triangle, and on the rare occasion he picked up the mob, he didn't use mend pet and it died.

That is the mass majority of hunters in vanilla, BUT, when you get one that can CC with freeze trap and kite well and pet tank, it's extremely useful

Reminds me of a BRD I did with a pretentious tank last night. Even before we got to the instance I was picking up mobs in and tanking them with my pet. Mr Tank seemed to take offense to this and whispered me turn pet growl off. I ignored him until we actually got to the instance.

He was a level 60 paladin tank, so he had little in the way of pulls. So I helped speed the group along by making pulls he couldnt.

Again for some reason, Mr Tank seemed to take offense to this. And told me to let him pull. This time I /loled at him.

Finally things came to a head when i started hunter marking the priority kill targets before he had the chance to mark it with a skull. So he started marking the wrong targets with a skull to try to make some infantile point. However all the dps followed my hunters mark instead sk he started bitching about kill order.

Everyone told him to stfu and keep going. And he basically sulked for the rest of the run.

Good times.

[Jujudrood]

The main thing about hunters is that they are kind of a pain in the ass to level, when you factor in your pet and its need to level not only raw levels but also skills.
For example, if you don't keep an eye on it and aim to increase skills, your level 60 pet might still be rocking level 2 Claw, thus a little gimped in its output.
If you plan out your path and, most importantly, pick the pets you want (it mattered back then, like the rare cat in STV that had a short swing timer and was 'better' than a crab, for example), level them properly and rank their skills, it's not so bad, but going back and getting one that's lower level than you is a grind.
Let's say you're 60 but you get the STV cat finally, that starts at like level 30ish? I think. Can't remember. Anywho, it will get one-shot by mobs that are green to you, so you will go back and fight lower level stuff to level it up.
This isn't as bad because pets only have 6 or 8 xp bubbles (compared to players having 20), but still kind of boring, though it will afford you some time to work on weapon skills to keep up swords, axes, etc for your melee abilities and bows, xbows, guns for ranged, because nothing sucks more than getting a shiny new wep only to have a 1 in it and spend time with a store-bought white sword beating the crap out of turtles and such for hours (this is an 'everybody' issue, so not hunter only).

Also, don't forget to stock up on arrows and meat because run out of arrows and you're melee'ing things (dangerous as a hunter vs 60s and elites) and with a lack of meat, your pet will turn yellow then orange and lose effectiveness because it's pissed (at green, they are 125%, yellow is 100%, orange is 75% effectiveness, if I recall correctly).

Once you get the menial shit out of the way, hit 60 and have a level 60 pet with max rank skills, you will do middle of the pack damage with a ton of utility.
If played right, you can pretty much own people in PVP (I used to feast on rogues and warriors in vanilla, not to mention clothies).
In raids, you will be there to tranq, to cc, and to channel heal your pet when it inevitably stands in bad and/or takes damage (they didn't have the near damage immunity they do today and a pet dying was bad news bears).
Your mana will be a struggle, but you will eventually learn to pace yourself and be able to contribute, though you won't top meters in raids, if that's your only goal.

I don't play on vanilla servers, so this is me remembering a dozen years ago, but hunter was still fun to play and def worthy of a go once classic drops.