Thread: Keep it simple

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  1. #61
    It's just about the middle ground.

    Which is a concept that blizzard seems to struggle with.

    Frost mages for example (despite not agreeing with their core rotation and spells SO similar to fire - but in a dif. color), they have a good number of tools. With the option to slightly reduce them in lieau of passives. Besides FB>Ice lance> flurries, there are a LOT of mid or long cooldowns to track: frozen orb / RoP/ water jet / ray of frost / glacial spike / ebonbolt / icy veins - you can cut half of those with talents if you desire. I think frost is a good example on how many skills a spec is good with.

    Now, I really think blizzard should add back combat utility to dps classes. Not saying that they should become a new support role, but think like such utility to alleviate things for healers or tanks, like:

    - Abilities like Remove Curse, to alleviate healers spending mana on cleanses
    - Abilities that debuffs enemy damage for a short amount of time, like a mini defensive cooldown, to help tanks with big blows
    - Free heal procs, to help healers that are struggling with mana or throughput
    - Make cc relevant again in encounters

    Note that these suggestions are only defensives, I believe it's easier to balance than giving specs a +dmg debuff on enemies. And make these utilities shared between 2 or 3 dps specs (and hunters bringing every one of them with different pets).

    Why I'm suggesting this? Sometimes, especially in new content people struggle with the encounters as they are new. Not saying to nerf healers or tanks, but this can make dps feel more special, like being responsible for something important if needed.


    Also, something I quite miss from many classes/specs in the game is a key feature that would define a specialty. I will brainstorm ideas:

    - Mages: Master of portals - this concept exists already, but further expand it. Make their class hall still relevant in Bfa by adding a room to it with portals to every (or most of the) zones ingame besides cities.
    - Hunters: Master of utility - This already exists with the key utilities (bloodlust, brez) but make their menagerie of pets provide every buff avaliable ingame - excelent for personal use or groups wanting a specific thing.
    - Shaman: Master of the elements - Able to commune with elementals NPCs across the zones (all leveling zones) to get a provisory bodyguard elemental. Also elementals would be neutral to them, allowing safe passage through some parts.
    - Rogues: Master of pickpocketing/lockpicking - there is that rogue vendor already, bring it back with more interesting items. Also make stolen items worth it like it once was. Make glyph of disguise so you can disguise yourself as some kind of enemy and be neutral against that same enemy, so you can sneak through dangerous areas.
    - Monks: Master of brews - expand the current buffing brew system, more fun and interesting effects that will make leveling easier, make it avaliable for all leveling range (1-120). For love of gods, allow us to STACK them too!
    - Death Knights: Master of necromancy - Make acherus still relevant, add some sort of laboratory there where you can build your own undead construct with items gathered across the world. It could be a tanking bodyguard (useful for the dps specs!), a daily quest-giver, a vendor that sells you on-use combat items, etc.
    Last edited by Yhvh; 2018-01-08 at 01:45 PM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Is that really because you can't fill them, or just because you don't play them as much and left some stuff out that you don't need outside of special enviroments like raids or arena?

    I've yet to find a class that can get away with only a single bar if you don't constantly want to open your bags for stuff.
    I play ten classes well enough to speedclear Heroic ABT, and three of them are geared enough for Mythic progression (Blood Death Knight, Survival Hunter, and Shadow Priest). So, I went through all of my toons, every spec (note that I don't have a Rogue or Paladin above level 85), and counted out abilities.

    Every spec has between 3 (all Mage specs) and 7 (Blood Death Knight) rotational abilities. Median is five abilities. Skills with a cooldown longer than 30 seconds were not counted rotationally but as a cooldown (below).

    Every spec has between 1-2 AoE abilities, sometimes a third on a cooldown.

    Every spec has 1 defensive CD, generally two. Healers have at least one extra that can be thrown on another target, and tanks have as many six.

    Every (DPS) spec has at least one offensive CD, some as many as four (Havoc DH).

    Most classes have 3-4 utility skills. Some as many as 12 (Warlock and Mage).

    Taken as an aggregate, the abilities of most classes can comfortably fit in two bars with room to spare. A couple of outliers need only one (if you ignore taunt on a DPS), or require three (Warlock). I did not count consumables or mounts, which depending on class and spec can push it higher (personally, I have 4-5 mounts on my bars: repair, waterwalk, swimming, ground and/or flying)

    The TL;DR is that 99% of the time most classes fit in about a bar and a half, except for a couple of classes which have honestly too much utility.
    Cheerful lack of self-preservation

  3. #63
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Earlier today I checked out some of the screenshots on the frontpage (mainly because I was interested in seeing the new zones) when something struck my eye. Some of the screenshots seem to show actual gameplay footage in which you can see some interesting changes to the UI. I'm talking about the change that happened to the action bars (or to be precise: the position of the action bars and the fact that only 2 are enabled by default (compared to three in Legion etc.)). But what really worries me is the fact that in most screenshots and also gameplay videos from Blizzcon nobody seems to be able to fill two action bars. It really saddens me to see what empty husks most classes have become in Legion and I really had hopes for BfA to bring back some of the complexity that we had in previous expansions. Now please bear in mind that all the footage shown is only at level 110 so it might be possible that they introduce a number of spells when we hit max level.
    What are you thoughts on this? Do you think classes should stay straightforward or do you want Blizzard to add more complexity when it comes to class mechanics?
    My classes on live fill 3 action bars or more. Doubt they're gonna prune again, they probably just haven't filled them with all abilities.

  4. #64
    Wouldn't worry about it. It's how those spells interact with your environment not about how many of them there are. You'll realize that once you play it. If you can't then you are not interested in this game.
    Owner of ONEAzerothTV
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  5. #65
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    You're rotational bar should only have 3-4 buttons on it.

    You only have to cast 3 DoTs and then channel Drain Soul. Don't act like your spec is complex.
    UA? Seeds? Reap? Talents (PS or SH)? Movement? I specifically said it is NOT complex, l2r. But it's not "3-4" buttons either. Twice that and you can probably scrape by, but you still have more buttons to press unless you only want to stand there like a lemon and dps a dummy. CC? Defensives? SS?

    I mean, if you really want to go the "hurr durr most barebones rotation is all there is to a class" you had 1-3 button specs all the way back to 2005.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Rurts View Post
    UA? Seeds? Reap? Talents (PS or SH)? Movement? I specifically said it is NOT complex, l2r. But it's not "3-4" buttons either. Twice that and you can probably scrape by, but you still have more buttons to press unless you only want to stand there like a lemon and dps a dummy. CC? Defensives? SS?

    I mean, if you really want to go the "hurr durr most barebones rotation is all there is to a class" you had 1-3 button specs all the way back to 2005.
    He didn't forget it; he's counting Unstable Affliction in those "three dots." Siphon Life isn't the best option in its row; every talent Affliction takes is either a long cooldown or a passive. SoC is also aoe and not part of the base rotation (and only used on three fights in Antorus anyway). Affliction rotation is literally:

    Apply/refresh agony
    Apply/refresh corruption
    Spam UA if 3+ shards
    Drain Soul

    Four buttons, ignoring cooldowns (Reap Souls and Soul Harvest).
    Cheerful lack of self-preservation

  7. #67
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Veredyn View Post
    He didn't forget it; he's counting Unstable Affliction in those "three dots." Siphon Life isn't the best option in its row; every talent Affliction takes is either a long cooldown or a passive. SoC is also aoe and not part of the base rotation (and only used on three fights in Antorus anyway). Affliction rotation is literally:

    Apply/refresh agony
    Apply/refresh corruption
    Spam UA if 3+ shards
    Drain Soul

    Four buttons, ignoring cooldowns (Reap Souls and Soul Harvest).
    You do take SL in Antorus (with 4t21, which everyone interested has by now). Reap is not a cooldown, it's a resource-based ability, its correct usage is critical in the rotation.

    SoC is a thing unless you never play anything else than raid bosses (afk on trash? no M+ ever?).

    I mean, sure, I will concede the point that "if you completely disregard all non-damage spells used rotationally, disregard aoe, movement, utility, defensives, cc AND gimp yourself by taking a passive talent subpar in current meta, Affliction boils down to four buttons". It's pointless, it's weirdly specific, but I guess technically it's true.

    Again, I never claimed aff is a complex spec, it is in fact simple. But why the need to exaggerate the simplicity to ridiculous degree? If you want complexity, look no further to Demonology at the time when it was the most convoluted mess, let's say Cata maybe (with the pet twisting and the starting sequence like a fucking space shuttle). It was complex all right. Was it good? Was it beloved by all? Fuck no.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    Classes weren't complex before.

    I didn't feel more complex with a a buff that I had to use every wipe/every hour or the random "sooth animal".

    Or that one spell that I had to use every min, on CD.

    More spells =/= more difficult.

    pls stop with threads like these.
    Indeed.

    If a player thought it was amazingly difficult to keep track of debuff slots, or buffing every person, or keeping up raid-wide buffs, or having a ton of fluff abilities on the bars... then that person most likely didn't and doesn't play at a very high level.

  9. #69
    More buttons =/= more fun in my opinion. I like pretty straightforward specs that have not super complex rotations.

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