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  1. #121
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    Why are people so obsessed with Trump? He's there and he won't go anywhere soon.

    And why would you want him out asap anyway? You seriously don't want to force out a president in times with political chaos like there is now. There simply is NO decent candidate available right now and both Republicans and Democrats are a giant mess internally.

    What you should do is take your time to find decent candidates, clean up the mess left from the last election (on both sides) and focus on the next election.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade View Post
    This shows that the Alt-Right, Neo-Reactionaries, Trumpists, Nazi-Fashionistas and Hipster-Himmlers were never a cohesive movement to begin with, in fact they have very autolytic characteristics in that once they run out of food they start consuming themselves.
    This has always, in my opinion, been the biggest feature of Trump's campaign and subsequent presidency his supporters have been in the biggest denial about. They like to label it a movement, an inevitable tidal wave crashing against [insert target of your choice]. "Trump won because he tells it like it is, he's the president of REAL Americans who defeated the libtard cucks destroying America, he's unstoppable and will easily win in 2020 because Trump Trumpy Trumptrump."

    Sounds better than "Trump's support base is a hastily cobbled together coalition of uneasy bedfellows with an unclear mandate and competing interests and will likely crack under the slightest pressure and eventually fall apart completely."

    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    There simply is NO decent candidate available right now and both Republicans and Democrats are a giant mess internally.
    I'd settle for a stable candidate who can do nothing past hold the line as it is right now until we can reset and try again in 2020.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    And what would that be?
    Self proclaimed alt reich saddo.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    I'd settle for a stable candidate who can do nothing past hold the line as it is right now until we can reset and try again in 2020.
    Well, you'd get Mike Pence for a year first. He's kinda stable, I guess.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Self proclaimed alt reich saddo.
    how am I alt-right

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    From your last thread:



    The terms can be modified.
    The thing is I'm not sure he'll be impeached either. That's why I'm careful with the 'i' word.

    From the other thread, these are the possible permutations I think.

    These are the outcome permutations.

    (1) Mueller could indict Trump. Trump could be pressured to resign by Republicans under threat of impeachment and do so.

    (2) Mueller could indict Trump. Trump could resist pressure to resign by Republicans and no impeachment happens. Trump becomes the first sitting President to stand trial. The country navigates an extremely complex legal morass.
    Scenario (A) - the litigation somehow occurs relatively quickly, within Trump's first term.
    -> If found guilty, and still President, Trump must be impeached to be removed from office, which would be procedural.
    Scenario (b) - the litigation proceeds slowly.
    -> Trump continues to exercise the powers of President while indicted since there is no impeachement or resignation.
    -> Trump either wins or loses re-election in 2020, while indicted. Winning continues the above, while President. Losing simplifies matters greatly, as a new president gains power.

    (3) Mueller could indict Trump. Trump could resist pressure to resign by Republicans and be removed from office.

    (4) Mueller could decline to indict Trump, and refer the matter to Congress, that pressures Trump to resign, and he does so, rather than face removal.

    (5) Mueller could decline to indict Trump, and refer the matter to Congress, that pressures Trump to resign. He refuses and is impeached.

    (6) Mueller could decline to indict Trump, and refer the matter to Congress, that pressures Trump to resign. He refuses and there is no impeachment. Republicans let Trump get away with it. America's legal institutions are shattered by this outcome.

    (7) Mueller could conclude that there is not enough evidence to either indict Trump or refer the matter to Congress. Investigation terminates and it gets no further than (let's say) Jared.

    (8) Donald Trump could declare victory and go home ("I drained the swamp and beat the deep state, now over to Pence to rebuild"), saving face, just like is important to Russians.

    (9) Donald Trump could have a "medical emergency" that necessitates his resignation, just like something out of the developing world.
    I think impeachment is possible. I think unilateral (B.S. rationale or otherwise) resignation or negotiated resignation is more likely. There are a lot of ways this can go, and the key to unlocking it... the first step... is if Mueller decides to indict Trump or refer the matter to Congress.

    My instincts tell me given precedent in the US at the Governor level, with Watergate and Lewinsky, and with what has occurred around the world in this regard since 2000, Mueller will indict Trump and argue that he has a right to do so in court (Trump will surely challenge his ability to do so). I think the outcome of that will decide Trump's future.

    Why? In other countries when the President or Prime Minister is on trial, the powers of the office are transferred to the next in line. The US has no such Constitutional requirement, other than a very liberal reading of the 25th Amendment. I think Trump will be gone, when it becomes clear, he won't be allowed to fight a legal battle
    more significant than any President in US history while in office.

    That's why I use the word 'removed', because I'm not ready to commit on a direction this could go yet.

    But I do not remotely believe Trump will finish his term. What we already know about Trump-Russia means its curtains for him.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    The thing is I'm not sure he'll be impeached either. That's why I'm careful with the 'i' word.

    From the other thread, these are the possible permutations I think.



    I think impeachment is possible. I think unilateral (B.S. rationale or otherwise) resignation or negotiated resignation is more likely. There are a lot of ways this can go, and the key to unlocking it... the first step... is if Mueller decides to indict Trump or refer the matter to Congress.

    My instincts tell me given precedent in the US at the Governor level, with Watergate and Lewinsky, and with what has occurred around the world in this regard since 2000, Mueller will indict Trump and argue that he has a right to do so in court (Trump will surely challenge his ability to do so). I think the outcome of that will decide Trump's future.

    Why? In other countries when the President or Prime Minister is on trial, the powers of the office are transferred to the next in line. The US has no such Constitutional requirement, other than a very liberal reading of the 25th Amendment. I think Trump will be gone, when it becomes clear, he won't be allowed to fight a legal battle
    more significant than any President in US history while in office.

    That's why I use the word 'removed', because I'm not ready to commit on a direction this could go yet.

    But I do not remotely believe Trump will finish his term. What we already know about Trump-Russia means its curtains for him.
    The one problem that I have with the bet is that it requires impeachment but if Trump were to resign before that would happen, the other person would probably still deserve to win. Since that's the case, I will revise the bet. If you truly don't believe he will finish his term then I see no reason not to take it.

    My revised offer:

    If Donald Trump is removed from or leaves office as a result of the Mueller investigation by January 20th, 2021, I will pay Skroe $100. If not, Skroe will pay me $100.

  8. #128
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    I will witness the bet!

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    Why are people so obsessed with Trump? He's there and he won't go anywhere soon.

    And why would you want him out asap anyway? You seriously don't want to force out a president in times with political chaos like there is now. There simply is NO decent candidate available right now and both Republicans and Democrats are a giant mess internally.

    What you should do is take your time to find decent candidates, clean up the mess left from the last election (on both sides) and focus on the next election.
    If you were American you'd understand. We are a different people than you.

    You're from the Netherlands. You have a Prime Minister and a King. Your effective political lead is the Head of Government and largely functionary. It is your King the head of state.

    America has what's been described as a 'civil religion'. The Presidency isn't just a political position. The President isn't just a functionary... some mere head administration of the executive branch. He is not some mere head of State either. It's a position of moral authority as well. In the American Civil Religion, the President is a kind of High Priest. Presidents aren't chiefly remembered as Democratic and Republican. And while they certainly take political positions espousing the views of their respective parties (as is their right), they uniformly act in the modern era as the leader, advocate, champion and servant of ALL Americans.

    Trump does not, and that is why we care. He is an amoral animal who flagrantly violets sacred American norms and vacates the moral authority of the office he is the mere custodian of. He debases a legacy he did not create, but is entrusted it. That is among the reasons we all loathe the man. Because he's made clear he is not the President of America, but the President of his Alt-Right support base, and the Arch-Troll on the rest of us. It is as if the High Priest of our Civil Religion turned out to be a lecherous pimp who didn't give a fig about the philosophies that our nation, founded on an idea, are based upon.

    And that is something that you may have a difficult time understanding. Your from the Netherlands. You have your own unique culture. But the Netherlands if fundamentally the homeland of the Dutch. America is not that. America does not have an ethnic identity. We are the home of a set of ideals and anyone who espouses them can become American. I can never be truly Dutch. I don't have an ounce of dutch blood in me. You however, can truly be American.

    Now put that against every miserable thing Trump has said on every political norm we know, including, and relevantly to this, immigration. That is why Trump is so abhorrent and why in the end, he'll be obliterated by a political shitstorm the likes of which this country has never seen. Because the center cannot hold. Because America's civil religion is designed around the President being a figure of moral and often times apolitical leadership. Without that, all it does is cause events and enemies to grow in number and conspire against him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    The one problem that I have with the bet is that it requires impeachment but if Trump were to resign before that would happen, the other person would probably still deserve to win. Since that's the case, I will revise the bet. If you truly don't believe he will finish his term then I see no reason not to take it.

    My revised offer:

    If Donald Trump is removed from or leaves office as a result of the Mueller investigation by January 20th, 2021, I will pay Skroe $100. If not, Skroe will pay me $100.
    Make it:


    If Donald Trump is removed from or leaves office as a result of events or information related to the Trump-Russia scandal by January 20th, 2021, I will pay Skroe $100. If not, Skroe will pay me $100.


    And we're on.

    Because I fully expect Mueller to be fired at some point, and no, that will not be remotely the end.

  10. #130
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    While a bet would make it interesting, I don't see how on earth would anyone trust someone like Knadra. I'd trust Skroe, but some trumplodyte? Fuck no.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Make it:


    If Donald Trump is removed from or leaves office as a result of events or information related to the Trump-Russia scandal by January 20th, 2021, I will pay Skroe $100. If not, Skroe will pay me $100.


    And we're on.

    Because I fully expect Mueller to be fired at some point, and no, that will not be remotely the end.
    That change is fine. I accept.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    While a bet would make it interesting, I don't see how on earth would anyone trust someone like Knadra. I'd trust Skroe, but some trumplodyte? Fuck no.
    Don't worry I'm not expecting to get paid, lol.

    Even if Trump is caught on camera with the entire Russian Duma fucking him in the ass, the Trumpkins will manage to weasel their way out of saying he is anything other than Vladmir Putin's bitch.

    Example: Go look at what Dacien wrote in response to Bannon himself calling bullshit on 6 months of posts from the dude. These people are not honest people.

  13. #133
    MERCERS OUT: Bannon's recent behavior has lost him the financial backing of a major patron and supporter of his projects — Rebekah Mercer. @jdawsey1, @PostRoz and I report. https://t.co/HF4Fl4eDwB https://t.co/Zh6KDSCJut
    https://twitter.com/AshleyRParker/st...49159208759296

    Oh look Bannon lost his Sugar Momma. This is ironically funny since Bannon's big rant is against the elite since the Mercer family are coastal hedge fund elites. I understand white supremacist have to stick together but Trumpkins follow the money.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  14. #134
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    It always come back to their personal psychological abnormalities.
    When we hate a person, what we hate in his image is something inside ourselves. Whatever isn't inside us can't excite us.

    There are less formal versions of this quote, but I can't find it right now. Anyway, back to gossiping about this beautiful mess that's supposed to be a Presidency.

    Trump may sue Michael Wolff
    https://www.axios.com/axios-am-2522224225.html

    Because, of course. It's already #1 on Amazon, but who cares

    There isn't really enough for a tl;dr to make and legal Twitter hasn't caught up on it. So yeah, Trump is just gonna sue EVERYONE.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    Why are people so obsessed with Trump? He's there and he won't go anywhere soon.

    And why would you want him out asap anyway? You seriously don't want to force out a president in times with political chaos like there is now. There simply is NO decent candidate available right now and both Republicans and Democrats are a giant mess internally.

    What you should do is take your time to find decent candidates, clean up the mess left from the last election (on both sides) and focus on the next election.
    This is an extremely dangerous line of thinking unfortunately. The reason people want Trump gone ASAP is because they feel that he is creating or exacerbating much of the political chaos that is going on at the moment, and the longer it is allowed to continue, there will be a higher number of more significant 'things that can't be undone' that will happen.

    If we decide that we /can't/ remove him because of the political chaos, that just tells anyone in power that they can hold onto it so long as they make things 'too bad' to fix. The last thing we want to encourage is the idea that starting a war (for example) will make them immune to punishment, because such an idea has ramifications that go way way beyond Trump and his presidency. Every president from now on would make certain that there is a war going on that guarantees them power. If people thought that the corruption in the two primary political parties now is bad (and it is!), then it'd only get worse down that route.

    The only way the US is ever going to take the garbage out on it's own political parties is if there are clear lines in the sand that will get a person swiftly punished even by their own supporters. Corruption is rooted in the phrase "What they did might be really horrible, but..."

  16. #136
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Don't worry I'm not expecting to get paid, lol.

    Even if Trump is caught on camera with the entire Russian Duma fucking him in the ass, the Trumpkins will manage to weasel their way out of saying he is anything other than Vladmir Putin's bitch.

    Example: Go look at what Dacien wrote in response to Bannon himself calling bullshit on 6 months of posts from the dude. These people are not honest people.
    I see. In any case, I really hope you win.

    I'm fully expecting to see Knadra try to weasel his way out of it, citing Trumps old age or whatever as the reason why he ultimately steps down (bet specifically mentioned the Trump-Russia scandal).

    Doh, and now Skroe got banned. Oh well.
    Last edited by Santti; 2018-01-04 at 02:07 PM.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    I see. In any case, I really hope you win.

    I'm fully expecting to see Knadra try to weasel his way out of it, citing Trumps old age or whatever as the reason why he ultimately steps down (bet specifically mentioned the Trump-Russia scandal).

    Doh, and now Skroe got banned. Oh well.
    I have a spotless reputation to maintain.

  18. #138
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    I have witnessed the bet!

  19. #139
    @Skroe. Bannon mentioned the money laundering and he knows how deep Trump is in some illegal shit mostly with Russia and likely some Russian gangsters.

    I guess this will be interesting in if a President has done illegal activities prior to election is it grounds for impeachment. I was a little young for Clinton and Whitewater and I'm not sure if that is what the Republicans were going for or just more to put stank on the Clinton Administration.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  20. #140
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    If Donald Trump is removed from or leaves office as a result of events or information related to the Trump-Russia scandal by January 20th, 2021, I(Knadra) will pay Skroe $100. If not, Skroe will pay me(knadra) $100.

    @Skroe
    @Knadra

    I am your witness

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