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  1. #1
    The Patient vondevon's Avatar
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    Raise Competitive Level Restrictions

    My experience in Competitive Mode starting in Season 7 changed dramatically -- for the worse. Based on some of the feedback I've read here and elsewhere, I know I'm not the only person to be experiencing this phenomenon.

    In every comp season prior I have placed in low Gold (2000-2500) and stayed there throughout the season. This is true when solo-ing and in group play. This past season was different, though. I placed the same (something like 2020) and immediately TANKED. Game after game I encountered similar experiences: people playing the same offense character on Attack/Defense, or "smurfs" playing Widow or Hanzo and single-handedly owning the entire map. In both cases, the poor behavior came from very low-level accounts (either because they just got the game during or after a free weekend and haven't yet learned that countering is more important than k:d, or they bought a second account to purposefully exploit low-level matchmaking).

    Over the course of Season 7 I dove from 2000+ all the way down to 1400-1500. I radically changed how I played by encouraging others into voice, exclusively filling with Rein or Mercy, and doing my damn best to work my way all the way back up to 2004 within the last couple hours of the season.

    This season I started back in Gold and I've already been seeing a lot of the same problems. Just yesterday I had a game with a mix of Golds & Silvers, and one player (with no stars yet somehow ranked Gold) was exclusively playing Soldier and repeatedly diving headlong into packs of 4 or more enemies. Everyone on the team was practically begging him to stop, to change, to just try to stay alive, and he responds "Chill guys I just got this game like 4 days ago, I don't know how to play yet"

    Please, please, please raise the minimum Comp level to at least 100. Make players put in some hours before they go into competitive games. Or at least implement some restriction on the difference between the highest and lowest level players. I do not want to be paired with people who don't know how to play and got lucky with placement, or are purposefully exploiting their low-level status. I'll wait 5 minutes to join a comp game if it means NEVER playing with either of these groups.

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Player Twelve's Avatar
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    No, it already takes too long to get a new account into competitive.
    Racism of low expectations
    A form of racial discrimination where certain racial groups are offered benefits and assistance because of an implicit belief that they are less able to cope in society without them.

  3. #3
    You do realize that the same rules apply to your opponents as well? It's not a one way street.

  4. #4
    The Patient vondevon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Player Twelve View Post
    No, it already takes too long to get a new account into competitive.
    "Too long" is subjective. What is your reason for wanting it so short? Overwatch is like fast-paced shooter chess. Nobody wants to play alongside or be dependent on teammates who don't know how to play the game. The only other reason for keeping it short is for people who want to run alt accounts and that results in a poor experience for everyone else playing.

    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    You do realize that the same rules apply to your opponents as well? It's not a one way street.
    An issue that applies to everyone? Sounds like it really ought to be fixed then.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by vondevon View Post
    "Too long" is subjective. What is your reason for wanting it so short? Overwatch is like fast-paced shooter chess. Nobody wants to play alongside or be dependent on teammates who don't know how to play the game. The only other reason for keeping it short is for people who want to run alt accounts and that results in a poor experience for everyone else playing.



    An issue that applies to everyone? Sounds like it really ought to be fixed then.
    I've seen star level 500 people who still don't know how to play the game and if you figure 8 games per level for 500 levels which equals 4000 games, and if they can't learn by 4000 games not to run in alone or that a team needs a tank and healer (if not multiples) then raising the level to start pvp isn't going to do jack squat in fixing the game.
    If you don't want these people on your team then make your own team and hand pick who you play with, then the only team that will have to deal with noobs and throwers is the opposing team which will make your games very easy.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by vondevon View Post
    Please, please, please raise the minimum Comp level to at least 100. Make players put in some hours before they go into competitive games. Or at least implement some restriction on the difference between the highest and lowest level players. I do not want to be paired with people who don't know how to play and got lucky with placement, or are purposefully exploiting their low-level status. I'll wait 5 minutes to join a comp game if it means NEVER playing with either of these groups.

    If you think that raising the level required to 100 for Comp will somehow change the skill level of the players you get matched up with, then you're obviously enough of a fool that you probably earned the tanked rating you ended up with on your own merits.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by vondevon View Post
    My experience in Competitive Mode starting in Season 7 changed dramatically -- for the worse. Based on some of the feedback I've read here and elsewhere, I know I'm not the only person to be experiencing this phenomenon.

    In every comp season prior I have placed in low Gold (2000-2500) and stayed there throughout the season. This is true when solo-ing and in group play. This past season was different, though. I placed the same (something like 2020) and immediately TANKED. Game after game I encountered similar experiences: people playing the same offense character on Attack/Defense, or "smurfs" playing Widow or Hanzo and single-handedly owning the entire map. In both cases, the poor behavior came from very low-level accounts (either because they just got the game during or after a free weekend and haven't yet learned that countering is more important than k:d, or they bought a second account to purposefully exploit low-level matchmaking).

    Over the course of Season 7 I dove from 2000+ all the way down to 1400-1500. I radically changed how I played by encouraging others into voice, exclusively filling with Rein or Mercy, and doing my damn best to work my way all the way back up to 2004 within the last couple hours of the season.

    This season I started back in Gold and I've already been seeing a lot of the same problems. Just yesterday I had a game with a mix of Golds & Silvers, and one player (with no stars yet somehow ranked Gold) was exclusively playing Soldier and repeatedly diving headlong into packs of 4 or more enemies. Everyone on the team was practically begging him to stop, to change, to just try to stay alive, and he responds "Chill guys I just got this game like 4 days ago, I don't know how to play yet"

    Please, please, please raise the minimum Comp level to at least 100. Make players put in some hours before they go into competitive games. Or at least implement some restriction on the difference between the highest and lowest level players. I do not want to be paired with people who don't know how to play and got lucky with placement, or are purposefully exploiting their low-level status. I'll wait 5 minutes to join a comp game if it means NEVER playing with either of these groups.
    You have bad driver syndrome, where you drive to work an hour a day and pass thousands of good drivers day in and day out but that one guy cuts you off and you go around bitching to everyone that will hear that nobody knows how to drive. You passed 1,000's of good drivers but the only one you can remember was the bad one. He cut you off and most likely he didn't see you because you were in his blindspot. He meant no malice but you think he just tried to murder you.

    It was one guy in one game, man up and get over it. Shit happens, stop whining.
    Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2018-01-08 at 03:08 AM.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  8. #8
    The Patient vondevon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I've seen star level 500 people who still don't know how to play the game and if you figure 8 games per level for 500 levels which equals 4000 games, and if they can't learn by 4000 games not to run in alone or that a team needs a tank and healer (if not multiples) then raising the level to start pvp isn't going to do jack squat in fixing the game.
    If you don't want these people on your team then make your own team and hand pick who you play with, then the only team that will have to deal with noobs and throwers is the opposing team which will make your games very easy.
    You are absolutely correct that level 500 players can be every bit as bad or worse than a fresh player at level 20. A level 500 player can fundamentally fail to understand how the game works. The difference is that a level 500 players has had the opportunity to learn & improve, whereas a new player has not. If an experienced player plays poorly, he will find himself capped at the rank he deserves. The skill of an inexperienced player is limited by his knowledge of the game. Regardless of skill, players who wish to test their Competitive skills shouldn't be matched up with people who "just got the game 4 days ago" because it isn't fun for anyone involved (for the team or the newbie who gets yelled at). I don't think a new player is missing out on a lot by being bound to QP and Arcade for a couple weeks.

    On the topic of "smurfs" I can't think of another way to discourage them from exploiting matchmaking, except to increase the amount of time they would have to invest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ham on Rye View Post
    If you think that raising the level required to 100 for Comp will somehow change the skill level of the players you get matched up with, then you're obviously enough of a fool that you probably earned the tanked rating you ended up with on your own merits.
    No I don't think raising the level cap will impact the skill of the players in queue. I think it will discourage newbies and cheaters from ruining everyone else's experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    You have bad driver syndrome, where you drive to work an hour a day and pass thousands of good drivers day in and day out but that one guy cuts you off and you go around bitching to everyone that will hear that nobody knows how to drive. You passed 1,000's of good drivers but the only one you can remember was the bad one. He cut you off and most likely he didn't see you because you were in his blindspot. He meant no malice but you think he just tried to murder you.

    It was one guy in one game, man up and get over it. Shit happens, stop whining.
    Keeping with your metaphor, it's all fine and dandy up until that one impaired or distracted driver causes a collision that impacts many others. It's the same reason why repeated violations will get you taken off the road (out of Comp). All I'm suggesting is we raise the driving age a little bit because 12-year-olds are causing too many accidents.

  9. #9
    If you are getting paired with people who just started playing, maybe you need to focus on improving your play.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by vondevon View Post
    You are absolutely correct that level 500 players can be every bit as bad or worse than a fresh player at level 20. A level 500 player can fundamentally fail to understand how the game works. The difference is that a level 500 players has had the opportunity to learn & improve, whereas a new player has not. If an experienced player plays poorly, he will find himself capped at the rank he deserves. The skill of an inexperienced player is limited by his knowledge of the game. Regardless of skill, players who wish to test their Competitive skills shouldn't be matched up with people who "just got the game 4 days ago" because it isn't fun for anyone involved (for the team or the newbie who gets yelled at). I don't think a new player is missing out on a lot by being bound to QP and Arcade for a couple weeks.

    On the topic of "smurfs" I can't think of another way to discourage them from exploiting matchmaking, except to increase the amount of time they would have to invest.



    No I don't think raising the level cap will impact the skill of the players in queue. I think it will discourage newbies and cheaters from ruining everyone else's experience.



    Keeping with your metaphor, it's all fine and dandy up until that one impaired or distracted driver causes a collision that impacts many others. It's the same reason why repeated violations will get you taken off the road (out of Comp). All I'm suggesting is we raise the driving age a little bit because 12-year-olds are causing too many accidents.
    You lost a game, you did not get caught up in a multiple car pile up which took dozens of lives. Losing a game is not as fucking serious as a traffic accident. My analogy stands, grow up, quit whining about that one guy and get over it.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If you don't want these people on your team then make your own team and hand pick who you play with, then the only team that will have to deal with noobs and throwers is the opposing team which will make your games very easy.
    If you make your own team then you will be put against other premades, not a bunch of randoms, right? Therefore the bolded part doesn't really hold up.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Twen View Post
    If you make your own team then you will be put against other premades, not a bunch of randoms, right? Therefore the bolded part doesn't really hold up.
    Have you played this game any? If you six stack you are likely to run into 3 twos, two threes and the one odd guy thrown in a 5 stack. There in lies the room for noobs. You however ensure you don’t get any. What? You don’t like the chance you will have an even fight if it is a 6 man? Can’t handle competition then get out of comp. you use a random group button you get what you asked for, random people. "But its not randomly picking the best of the best for me!" It isn't a best of the best button, its a random button.

    You have just as much chance of getting that guy on your team as much as on your enemies team which gives you the win. You only complain when he's on your team, not when he is on other peoples teams, much like the driver who only complains when one out of thousands of drivers cuts them off.

    Follow me here, you choose 5 people to play with you have a 0% chance of getting a noob or a thrower. The opposing team however only has a 0% chance of that if they are doing the same as you. But if they get any members who are not linked in a group there is the chance of a thrower or a noob. That is thier problem, not yours because you know going into a match that you have a 0% chance of having to deal with it. It's pretty simple math, I shouldn't have to explain it.
    Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2018-01-09 at 05:30 AM.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  13. #13
    Warchief Katie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Have you played this game any? If you six stack you are likely to run into 3 twos, two threes and the one odd guy thrown in a 5 stack. There in lies the room for noobs. You however ensure you don’t get any. What? You don’t like the chance you will have an even fight if it is a 6 man? Can’t handle competition then get out of comp. you use a random group button you get what you asked for, random people. "But its not randomly picking the best of the best for me!" It isn't a best of the best button, its a random button.

    You have just as much chance of getting that guy on your team as much as on your enemies team which gives you the win. You only complain when he's on your team, not when he is on other peoples teams, much like the driver who only complains when one out of thousands of drivers cuts them off.

    Follow me here, you choose 5 people to play with you have a 0% chance of getting a noob or a thrower. The opposing team however only has a 0% chance of that if they are doing the same as you. But if they get any members who are not linked in a group there is the chance of a thrower or a noob. That is thier problem, not yours because you know going into a match that you have a 0% chance of having to deal with it. It's pretty simple math, I shouldn't have to explain it.
    Not everyone knows 5 people who play the game.
    Last edited by Katie N; 2018-01-09 at 06:39 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Have you played this game any? If you six stack you are likely to run into 3 twos, two threes and the one odd guy thrown in a 5 stack. There in lies the room for noobs. You however ensure you don’t get any. What? You don’t like the chance you will have an even fight if it is a 6 man? Can’t handle competition then get out of comp. you use a random group button you get what you asked for, random people. "But its not randomly picking the best of the best for me!" It isn't a best of the best button, its a random button.

    You have just as much chance of getting that guy on your team as much as on your enemies team which gives you the win. You only complain when he's on your team, not when he is on other peoples teams, much like the driver who only complains when one out of thousands of drivers cuts them off.

    Follow me here, you choose 5 people to play with you have a 0% chance of getting a noob or a thrower. The opposing team however only has a 0% chance of that if they are doing the same as you. But if they get any members who are not linked in a group there is the chance of a thrower or a noob. That is thier problem, not yours because you know going into a match that you have a 0% chance of having to deal with it. It's pretty simple math, I shouldn't have to explain it.
    Of course I have, and playing 6-stack I get put against 6-stacks, or sometimes 5-stack + 1 at most. I have no problem with that as it's how it should go. You, however, have gone on a tirade on completely unrelated subjects that I never talked about or even indicated in response to me simply saying that statement (making your own team gives you easy games against randoms) is not quite true. That is *all* and the only thing I said, none of the rest of this.

    Edit: You really might want to ease up on all the assumptions and the condescending attitude for the future.
    Last edited by Twen; 2018-01-09 at 01:44 PM.

  15. #15
    I play casual most, just to constantly raise my exp level. You tend to group mostly with people around your own level.

    But yeah, I feel you, got some IRL's who started playing. As ex-hardcore CS players, they got into Plat+, BUT the first placement games of them, where they wanted me with them was a living hell. It seems it was us + only level 25s who did their first placement ever Other team didn't have a single guy below 100, I suppose my high level somehow balanced things, so that we got the lowbies xD. Never again will I do placement with non ranked.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    Not everyone knows 5 people who play the game.
    You play the game, see someone who plays the way you like and you send them a friend invite, you get a big list of people and when you log in you invite people. Hell, maybe someone invites YOU. Insane huh? Eventually you make in game friends who will always want to play with you. You can also go to discord -Looking for Team- and find people your skill rating who give a damn. It isn't hard, it just requires a tiny bit of effort, slightly more than clicking random group finder.

    Before you know it, pow, lots of online friends. Everyone is happy.

    Even if you only queue with one person that is one less chance of a loser.

    The problem isn't that the group finder finds you random people, the problem is you expect it to get you the best of the best everytime you smack the button and that isn't what it does. You want the best of the best you are going to have to click more buttons than one.

    I mean seriously, you guys want everyone else on your team doing everything they can to maximize their every move to help your team win but you personally refuse to do the one thing that would give you a higher chance of winning, inviting people rather than relying on a coded random group finder to fill your teams.
    Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2018-01-10 at 04:46 AM.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  17. #17
    Warchief Katie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    You play the game, see someone who plays the way you like and you send them a friend invite, you get a big list of people and when you log in you invite people. Hell, maybe someone invites YOU. Insane huh? Eventually you make in game friends who will always want to play with you. You can also go to discord -Looking for Team- and find people your skill rating who give a damn. It isn't hard, it just requires a tiny bit of effort, slightly more than clicking random group finder.

    Before you know it, pow, lots of online friends. Everyone is happy.
    Why would I want to group with someone I don't know?
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    The problem isn't that the group finder finds you random people, the problem is you expect it to get you the best of the best everytime you smack the button and that isn't what it does. You want the best of the best you are going to have to click more buttons than one.

    I mean seriously, you guys want everyone else on your team doing everything they can to maximize their every move to help your team win but you personally refuse to do the one thing that would give you a higher chance of winning, inviting people rather than relying on a coded random group finder to fill your teams.
    I expect them to be on the same skill level as me if they are on the same rating because that is what a rating system is about. People on same rating are similar skill. For some reason this is not the case with overwatch rating which they should fix.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    Why would I want to group with someone I don't know?


    I expect them to be on the same skill level as me if they are on the same rating because that is what a rating system is about. People on same rating are similar skill. For some reason this is not the case with overwatch rating which they should fix.
    They are on the same rating as you, but as is human nature you will always find other people to blame for your losses even if you yourself contributed or was the major contributor to your loss. It is also human nature to take all the credit when you do win. What ever rank you are you earned as did they.

    You want to win? Do as I suggested to maximize your potential and *gasp* you might get to know someone you are playing with, anything less is just an excuse.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  19. #19
    Warchief Katie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    They are on the same rating as you, but as is human nature you will always find other people to blame for your losses even if you yourself contributed or was the major contributor to your loss. It is also human nature to take all the credit when you do win. What ever rank you are you earned as did they.

    You want to win? Do as I suggested to maximize your potential and *gasp* you might get to know someone you are playing with, anything less is just an excuse.
    You just post pure bullshit all the time when people point out how flawed the system is and say it's them and not the system that is wrong. Bullshit without any support.

  20. #20
    Given how toxic you are here it makes sense that you feel like your teammates suck. You probably tilt people into throwing, or demoralize them to the point where their performance is worse.

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