AMD Announces 2018 roadmap at CES

[Gray_Matter]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12233...nm-vega-on-7nm

This is the CPU/APU product line, and along with new product lines, there are also some new refreshes.

Ryzen 3 Mobile APUs: January 9th
Ryzen Desktop APUs: February 12th
Second Generation Ryzen Desktop Processors: April.
Ryzen Pro Mobile APUs: Q2 2018
Second Generation Threadripper Processors: 2H 2018
Second Generation Ryzen Pro Desktop Processors: 2H 2018

For most of these, we were given a good amount of information, which we will go into in the following pages. It is interesting to know that the second generation parts will be built on GlobalFoundries 12nm ‘12LP’ process, which we were told will offer 10%+ better performance per watt than the 14nm ‘14LPP’ process. We were also told that the new 12LP process focuses on features to optimize performance per watt, and that the new 12LP Ryzen desktop processors are already in the hands of AMD’s partners.

They also announced a price drop on some of their processors R5 1600 down to $189, as an example.

https://www.pcper.com/news/Processor...ces-30-Percent

The desktop APU's look pretty neat.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyl.../#2954953911ed

APU	Base Freq	Boost Freq	Cores/Threads	GPU CUs	Price
Ryzen 5 2400G	3.6GHz	3.9GHz	4/8	11	$169
Ryzen 3 2200G	3.5GHz	3.7GHz	4/4	8	$99

They're also unlocked so are overclockable and demonstrations at a CES Tech Day event showed overclocked CPU speeds up to 4.2GHz and Vega GPU overclocking yielding close to 50% performance boosts in games too.

[Sorshen]

Hope they have a desktop APU comparable to the Intel+Vega i7-8809G, it seems that one has 4c/8t and GPU performance comparable to GTX 1060Max-Q

[Evildeffy]

A lot of interesting stuff will be announced @ CES 2018 I think...

Ryzen 5 1600/1600X was already my favourite build for consumers/small businesses this year (businesses only if they needed more CPU power).
So I'm curious is they can really make Ryzen+ 5 2600/2600X clock higher properly whilst being more efficient.

Having said that to all the nay sayers in the forum who claimed RX Vega is not and can never be efficient, considering the above Intel CPU and Ryzen APUs with the benchmarks and comparisons ... that must physically hurt to see that possible right?

Regardless ... I'm kind of hoping nVidia will at least announce or unveil a little bit of the Volta/Ampere cards and which denominator they'll follow in the GTX line, being GTX 11 series (which I'm betting on) or GTX 20 series (which I honestly do not see how people have come to that naming scheme).

But ... more importantly ... NON-SUCK CASES WOULD BE NICE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Cooler Master H500p disappointment supreme.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I've been getting an upgrade itch which I've been scratching and literally have three tabs open on my other monitor to dump in to an 8700k/Z370 setup and be done with that side of things for the next 4 or 5 years but this whole Meltdown "it's a feature not a bug" stance from Intel as well as their general practice of releasing new board models as often as they do kind of makes me hesitant.

I know it has a marginal impact on gaming which is what I am primarily interested in but it leaves an incredibly sour taste in my mouth especially when AMD has a solid product and a more consumer-friendly business model.

Waiting till April might be hard...

[valky94]

Sweet stuff, was planing on buying a new PC before summer with a R5 1600, nice to see some new ryzens comming up, rly excited for those, hope they release some new GPUs aswell that wont flop like vega 56 and 64

now the big question is, since they are still ZEN will they still use AM4 from the prevous gen, cuz if i remember correctly they said that the socket and chipsets wont change for a few gens. Can anyone confirm that?

[Zenny]

So no Vega on 12nm? Skipping straight to 7nm? I guess 2018 is Nvidia's year again.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

So no Vega on 12nm? Skipping straight to 7nm? I guess 2018 is Nvidia's year again.

Miners would still snipe them in .3 seconds in any case so us regular folk may as well come to terms that Vega cards are unicorns. I should have pulled the trigger on a 1070 Ti Duke the other day since it was $600CAD but now I see shortages in the GPU industry has come back with a vengeance in regards to availability and pricing for both sides. 580s are still over the moon and 1060s seem to be not far behind. 1080 and 1080 Ti? Forget about it.

What a shitty time if you need a graphics card.

[Evildeffy]

Sweet stuff, was planing on buying a new PC before summer with a R5 1600, nice to see some new ryzens comming up, rly excited for those, hope they release some new GPUs aswell that wont flop like vega 56 and 64

now the big question is, since they are still ZEN will they still use AM4 from the prevous gen, cuz if i remember correctly they said that the socket and chipsets wont change for a few gens. Can anyone confirm that?

All Ryzen/Ryzen+ and ZEN2 uArch CPUs will be on the AM4 socket which should at least last up to and including 2020, which may even include ZEN3 but unsure on that.

- - - Updated - - -

So no Vega on 12nm? Skipping straight to 7nm? I guess 2018 is Nvidia's year again.

None of the roadmaps entail any graphics products barring APUs as far as I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong).
So I think you might have to wait till June/July as usual for those.

[DeltrusDisc]

A lot of interesting stuff will be announced @ CES 2018 I think...

Ryzen 5 1600/1600X was already my favourite build for consumers/small businesses this year (businesses only if they needed more CPU power).
So I'm curious is they can really make Ryzen+ 5 2600/2600X clock higher properly whilst being more efficient.

Having said that to all the nay sayers in the forum who claimed RX Vega is not and can never be efficient, considering the above Intel CPU and Ryzen APUs with the benchmarks and comparisons ... that must physically hurt to see that possible right?

Regardless ... I'm kind of hoping nVidia will at least announce or unveil a little bit of the Volta/Ampere cards and which denominator they'll follow in the GTX line, being GTX 11 series (which I'm betting on) or GTX 20 series (which I honestly do not see how people have come to that naming scheme).

But ... more importantly ... NON-SUCK CASES WOULD BE NICE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Cooler Master H500p disappointment supreme.

I could see NVidia just trying to differentiate the numbers more, so 10, 20, 30, etc. 11, 12, etc could work, but I'm just not feeling it entirely. I mean, they did, way back, have the 6000, 7000, 8000, and 9000 series. So why should they suddenly care more about the first two digits being literally +1 in a 4 digit naming scheme now?

Anyways, yeah, some better case announcements is sorely needed. It's like so many of the manufacturers fired all the folks who knew what they were doing and brought in amateurs. H500P. /barf

[Logwyn]

Miners would still snipe them in .3 seconds in any case so us regular folk may as well come to terms that Vega cards are unicorns. I should have pulled the trigger on a 1070 Ti Duke the other day since it was $600CAD but now I see shortages in the GPU industry has come back with a vengeance in regards to availability and pricing for both sides. 580s are still over the moon and 1060s seem to be not far behind. 1080 and 1080 Ti? Forget about it.

What a shitty time if you need a graphics card.

It why the local electronics stores put a limit on the number you can get.

[Lathais]

It why the local electronics stores put a limit on the number you can get.

and that limit is insanely easy to get around.

[Logwyn]

and that limit is insanely easy to get around.

Well yes yes it is...... its still there.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

It why the local electronics stores put a limit on the number you can get.

In my case it's basically buy online or I'm SOL. Unfortunately, the "best and biggest" computer shop we have in town is Staples and they practically ask an arm and a leg even for lowly HDTV video cards so they'd probably want my house for a 1070.

My 290x is a real work horse so it's not like I'm suffering but at this rate I may as well should wait for Volta.

[Gray_Matter]

None of the roadmaps entail any graphics products barring APUs as far as I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong).
So I think you might have to wait till June/July as usual for those.

I think the only reference has been for 7nm Vega but that's a compute/AI card. Not a GFX card. My hope is that the APU's, provided they are fast enough, trigger a bit of a drop in pricing. If NVidia want to compete then they will need to have lower priced entry level cards for the discrete market. That will hopefully lead to a drop in the mid range cards because the gap between the entry level ones and the midrange cards will be massive. As it is, I was going to pick up new CPU and GFX cards for my kids but will seriously consider the APU's as an alternative. They make sense from both from a pricing perspective and an availability perspective.

[mrgreenthump]

So no Vega on 12nm? Skipping straight to 7nm? I guess 2018 is Nvidia's year again.

It's the right decision though.. If they want to compete in desktop graphics, they need a dedicated architecture. Simply die-shrinking Vega wouldn't be enough, as they need like 50% more performance to truly compete with "Ampere".

It's bad for competition in the short term, but if they take "Navi" seriously as a gaming architecture, it should be good.

[Zenny]

It's the right decision though.. If they want to compete in desktop graphics, they need a dedicated architecture. Simply die-shrinking Vega wouldn't be enough, as they need like 50% more performance to truly compete with "Ampere".

It's bad for competition in the short term, but if they take "Navi" seriously as a gaming architecture, it should be good.

I think a 12nm change might have lowered the costs of the chip a bit while allowing it to scale a bit better with clock speed, reducing power consumption a bit as well. But as you said, Ampere might just blow that all out of the water.

Navi should hopefully allow AMD to compete again, assuming that better balance GCN as a gaming architecture and are able to leverage Infinity Fabric into GPU's. Because right now the market share for AMD GPU's for gamers is dire. They lost me as a customer earlier this year, I had a choice between a Vega 64 LQ or AIB 1080ti, the choice was obvious.

[Kagthul]

I've been getting an upgrade itch which I've been scratching and literally have three tabs open on my other monitor to dump in to an 8700k/Z370 setup and be done with that side of things for the next 4 or 5 years but this whole Meltdown "it's a feature not a bug" stance from Intel

That is an extremely biased and non-truthful way to look at what they said. They said it wasn't a design flaw, and it wasn't. No one even knew that kind of attack was possible. It would have affected AMD just as much if they hadn't been pretty much forced to mate multiple CPU dies with Infinity Fabric.

as well as their general practice of releasing new board models as often as they do kind of makes me hesitant.

This entire outrage about Motherboard releases is just so much manufactured outrage about literally nothing. The days of upgrading your CPU every year or two are gone. They've BEEN gone for more than a decade.

The CPU and Motherboard are going to be perfectly fine for the conceivable valuable life of the computer. At no point is another CPU going to come along with massive gains that you could have put in your existing motherboard. Most people are getting 6-8 years out of a CPU these days.

You think AM4 is going to last 8 years? Hint: it isn't. You think Zen+ is going to provide a meaningful upgrade for people who already have R7s and R5 1600s? It wont. The fact that you can slap a Zen+ into a 300-series AMD board is almost entirely irrelevant. No one who just built a Ryzen machine is thinking "man, im sure glad i can throw away this 300$ CPU i just bought for another 300$ CPU next year that will be 10% faster!" Literally no one. Zen 2... might.. .MAYBE have some leg to stand on, if the stars align and the switch to 7nm goes smoothly and actually provides more than an incremental upgrade. And then that's the end of AM4's support. All they promised was Zen 2.. and that's in 2019.

And even then... do you think 99% of people who already have a perfectly capable Ryzen or Ryzen+ system are going to go throw down another 400$ on Zen 2 when their current rig is still delivering stellar performance? Answer there is... nope, they aren't..

Intel and AMD could release new motherboards with every chip generation every year and it would not matter one tiny bit, because no one is upgrading year-over-year anymore. The gains just aren't there.

The only people rushing out to upgrade are enthusiasts, who make up such a tiny part of the market that the very idea that they would even bother to cater to that market (which includes me, by the way) is ludicrous. We aren't relevant. And even if we were - as enthusiasts, this is your hobby and you understand that upgrading every year is going to be expensive.

Any average-user, even one who is above-average in that he is building or upgrading his own rig, doesn't care that next year he might need a new motherboard... because he isn't upgrading next year. Or the year after. Or likely, the year after that.

By the time a machine you build now starts to have relevant performance issues (unless you went bottom-barrel now, in which case.. what are the chances you have a viable upgrade path anyway?), it will be years from now when even in the before-times, (And the now-times with AM4) theyd have moved on to a new motherboard.

Let it go people. It is such a non-issue its laughable how much people bitch and moan over it.

About the roadmap:

Exactly as predicted. Glad to see the APUs starting to be a serious product. My next media center might be a Ryzen APU if Ryzen-toshing it wont be too hard.

Their absolute and total refusal to even discuss wether Ryzen+ gained any clock speeds (as noted by Paul and BitWit who were invited to the pre-event) is troubling and a good sign that clock speeds aren't going to shoot up.. but the lower power consumption really puts them back into the laptop market, particularly with the APUs, so good there.

[Gray_Matter]

That is an extremely biased and non-truthful way to look at what they said. They said it wasn't a design flaw, and it wasn't. No one even knew that kind of attack was possible. It would have affected AMD just as much if they hadn't been pretty much forced to mate multiple CPU dies with Infinity Fabric.

You said this before and I asked then. Can you provide a reference for this?

You think AM4 is going to last 8 years? Hint: it isn't. You think Zen+ is going to provide a meaningful upgrade for people who already have R7s and R5 1600s? It wont. The fact that you can slap a Zen+ into a 300-series AMD board is almost entirely irrelevant. No one who just built a Ryzen machine is thinking "man, im sure glad i can throw away this 300$ CPU i just bought for another 300$ CPU next year that will be 10% faster!" Literally no one. Zen 2... might.. .MAYBE have some leg to stand on, if the stars align and the switch to 7nm goes smoothly and actually provides more than an incremental upgrade. And then that's the end of AM4's support. All they promised was Zen 2.. and that's in 2019.

And even then... do you think 99% of people who already have a perfectly capable Ryzen or Ryzen+ system are going to go throw down another 400$ on Zen 2 when their current rig is still delivering stellar performance? Answer there is... nope, they aren't..

Here is the thing. There are 2 very good reasons why maintaining a socket are a good thing.

1. Upgrading - I am not talking about going from a R5 1600 to a R5 2600 here. I am talking about going from a R3 1200 to a R5 2600. I am sitting with 2 PC's at home with I3-4160's and it's a nightmare to upgrade them. I bought them as a cheap gaming machine and I can't do squat with them now to upgrade them. I need to go and take a chance on E-Bay. There are a lot of people who buy small so they can upgrade later.
2. Maintenance - Motherboards go faulty, CPU's don't. That's my experience. I have an old I7-3770 and a I7-2600 and I have to replace the MB and CPU if the motherboards stuff out because you can't get them any more.

Maintaining a socket for an extended period of time is a very good thing for customers. Intel change sockets because it means more people upgrade and that's bad for consumers.

[Kagthul]

You said this before and I asked then. Can you provide a reference for this?

Quite honestly, given your piss-poor attitude and arrogance, no, im not going to bother. Use Google. Educate yourself.

Here is the thing. There are 2 very good reasons why maintaining a socket are a good thing.

1. Upgrading - I am not talking about going from a R5 1600 to a R5 2600 here. I am talking about going from a R3 1200 to a R5 2600. I am sitting with 2 PC's at home with I3-4160's and it's a nightmare to upgrade them. I bought them as a cheap gaming machine and I can't do squat with them now to upgrade them. I need to go and take a chance on E-Bay. There are a lot of people who buy small so they can upgrade later.

No, there really are not. When you can learn to realize that if every single person you ever saw post that they did this had 100 people just like them, it STILL wouldn't add up to even a fraction of a percentage of people buying and even building their computers...

2. Maintenance - Motherboards go faulty, CPU's don't. That's my experience.

Anecdotal experience. How amazing. Anecdotally, i've had zero motherboards fail. Ever.

Cooked about half a dozen CPUs though.

But thats anecdotal as well.

The stats dont back either of us up. The instances of failed hardware of either type just aren't that high (at least in Desktops; in laptops, ho boy. Those things often cook themselves to death at a substantialy higher failure rate).

I have an old I7-3770 and a I7-2600 and I have to replace the MB and CPU if the motherboards stuff out because you can't get them any more.

So... six and eight year old parts. They should just keep those sockets around FOREVER, then.

Id point out that even "The Consumer's Friend and Savior Who Can Do No Wrong" AMD's plan would abandon you here. AM4 isn't going past 2019 (Zen 2). Thats .... 3 years. MIGHT make it through 2020 if there is a Zen 2+, depending on if AMD feels like their promise to support AM4 through Zen2 includes Zen2+. So, four years.

Maintaining a socket for an extended period of time is a very good thing for customers. Intel change sockets because it means more people upgrade and that's bad for consumers.

This might have some weight to it if even a sizeable single-digit percentage of people were building or upgrading their rigs frequently.

They aren't.

The vast majority of people buying computers buy off the shelf at a big box store.

This forum isn't remotely representative of reality. (no forums are). Just by being interested in working on, upgrading, or building our own computers, we are in a TINY percentage of the customer base. When that breaks through your skull, let me know.

Better yet, don't. I'd put you on ignore, but im not allowed, because the website admins dont understand the law in the EU or US and you aren't allowed to NOT have mods harass you and/or fill up your screen with drivel. Fun times.

[Gray_Matter]

Quite honestly, given your piss-poor attitude and arrogance, no, im not going to bother. Use Google. Educate yourself.

Ok. So you don't have anything to back it up. You made the claim, you should back it up is the way it normally goes.

No, there really are not. When you can learn to realize that if every single person you ever saw post that they did this had 100 people just like them, it STILL wouldn't add up to even a fraction of a percentage of people buying and even building their computers...

The point is that people do buy that way. It's a benefit to them. You might feel like it's a fraction of the market. The fact that Pentium's, I3's and R3's are selling make it less so.

Anecdotal experience. How amazing. Anecdotally, i've had zero motherboards fail. Ever.

Cooked about half a dozen CPUs though.

But thats anecdotal as well.

The stats dont back either of us up. The instances of failed hardware of either type just aren't that high (at least in Desktops; in laptops, ho boy. Those things often cook themselves to death at a substantialy higher failure rate).

I used to work for a hardware distributor. Ask anyone who works for a distributor what fails more often. Motherboards or CPU's.

The best example I could find is this:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic...ly-everything/

That puts the failure rate at about 2% which is consistent with my experiences. ASUS provide distributors in areas where they don't have a presence with extra motherboards to cover failures. It's 1 or 2 per 100 motherboards you buy. On the other hand, CPU's have a failure rate of 0.27% according to this company (https://www.storagecraft.com/blog/re...hardware-2014/). That seems higher than my experience but who am I to argue. That would make motherboards about 7.5 times more prone to failure than CPU's.

You do know that when you say "cooked" CPU's, it implies that you broke them?

So... six and eight year old parts. They should just keep those sockets around FOREVER, then.

Id point out that even "The Consumer's Friend and Savior Who Can Do No Wrong" AMD's plan would abandon you here. AM4 isn't going past 2019 (Zen 2). Thats .... 3 years. MIGHT make it through 2020 if there is a Zen 2+, depending on if AMD feels like their promise to support AM4 through Zen2 includes Zen2+. So, four years.

I can still get an AM3+ motherboard for my 8320 and that's about 9 years old. In the same time Intel have gone through how many sockets? Maintaining sockets keeps parts available. That's good for consumers.

AMD is no "friend and savior". They are a company. They are in it to make as much profit as they can. You can be sure that if they were bigger than Intel and NVidia then they would be ripping us off right now. They will bend over backwards to come off as the "better" company while they are behind in terms of market share. I favor the best bang for buck that does what I need. Nothing more. I don't play a huge amount of games so that's not important to me. Threaded work is, so I got an 8320. My kids needed entry level gaming machines so I got them the I3's. I don't have any preference other than preferring there be at least 2 serious competitors otherwise we will get railroaded. Right now, AMD are the right price point for my needs. Depending on the price/performance of the Intel Radeon CPU's, that might change when I get upgrades for my kids. The constantly changing socket is one thing that isn't in Intel's favor. As they say, once bitten, twice shy.