This is why ppl keep wiping in coven

[ablib]

Isn't that simple?

Typing "people" instead of the illiterate sounding "ppl" is simple too.

[msdos]

Coven is that fight you try to bring mostly ranged.

[rxosxp]

Coven is that fight you try to bring mostly ranged.

Ha. I don't care at all. I always brought a lot of melees as long as they do have kills.

[Sylvaeres]

What? That made no sense at all.

While it's true that the first week the adds had less hps than they were supposed to in big raids, you dont consider the fact that the first week people were still adjusting to the fight and the tactics and had MUCH LOWER itemlevel than now... hc players were average 933ish il the first week and mythic ones 942ish, now they are 950ish/965ish. As a 9/11 mythic raids i can tell you without doubts (anyone saying otherwise is pretty much a moron period) that coven was MUCH HARDER the first week than it is now. The adds hp increase does not matter at all since it just means you use heroism on them, and 15 itemlevels extra help a shitload.
The fight now in hc is a joke and even in mythic is really easy.

I disagree, kinda. At this point, Coven is easy because of experience. But it's undeniable fact that the fight was bugged and thus easier than it should be first week. And average I lvl was not 930 something. My mage and my dh were both 940+ walking into Antorus first week

[Zoldor]

My only issue with this is the OP acting like they've thought up some great plan. You mean using people who overgear, run the raid level above, or are farming the content already will making killing the content easier?! You're fucking crazy man, you've thought up the smartest thing ever. This isn't something new, making quick groups using a barrier to entry and certain skill requirement has been done since day one raiding. It is how all high end raid guilds were started.

You need an addon to do this? Oh, wait nope you just want your pug to form faster, without spending the time to look at people to run your raid on one shot kills. Good for you. But acting like no one with a kill should play with people who don't have a kill is fucking stupid and who are you to exclaim that this is the best way to play. It isn't, it is the best way to get something done quickly. Some people like to help others progress. This idea you have is how divides get widdened between groups. Hate to break it to you, but at some point in this game you were the player without the kill and someone helped you or took a shot on you for your raid or your kills. You didn't start WoW with all the raid achievements.

Arrogant shit sold as the best way to play a game. Nothing more. Great you along with every other player knows that to get an ez group with quick kills you weed people out who aren't on par and ready to do this and using an addon would be faster. Will you later explain how you think kindling is the best wood for starting a fire as well?

[Deleted]

I disagree, kinda. At this point, Coven is easy because of experience. But it's undeniable fact that the fight was bugged and thus easier than it should be first week. And average I lvl was not 930 something. My mage and my dh were both 940+ walking into Antorus first week

First of all, i didnt say everyone was 930 first week of antorus. I said on average the hc players were 933ish, mythic ones 942. Obviously Im talking about equipped level with perfect gear and tier pieces. We killed KJ mythic 2 weeks before antorus and we were exactly 942, and leading 3 weekly different pugs i can assure you the average was 933-935, sure some were luckier with tf procs and are higher but the average was that.

Second, I hope you're kidding. Getting used to the tactics (and coven is one with actually several mechanics), 10-15 itemlevels and the new tier is more helpful (A LOT MORE) than the adds having more hps. I mean, its not even comparable at all the boost u get vs the extra hps they have. I pugged 11/11hc first week with my 3 alts and coven (even if bugged) was by far the hardest boss of all, 2nd week with upgrades and people getting used to it was much easier, now its basically a joke.

[Aoyi]

There is nothing wrong with joining a group with a leader who hasn't killed it yet as long as they've researched the fight. If I join and the leader is dead on the first torment, then yeah, that's a problem. If they seem to be doing callouts and know the fight, I don't care if they have the kill themselves or not.

Think of it this way. They might have a guild group. Their guild group might be progressing on Coven and not have the kill yet. Their raid is done for the week and if they want to get any further, they have to either pug or form their own pug groups. It happens. If you shut them down completely just because they don't have the kill yet, then that's ridiculous. If you personally don't want to join their group, suit yourself. No one is forcing you to do so. To come on the forums and try and tell everyone else to not join them because you have a problem with it is a bit much.

[Syld]

Ha. I don't care at all. I always brought a lot of melees as long as they do have kills.

All of the times I've pugged this boss more than half of the dps are melee and we still 1/2 shot it, I always join groups that look at kills/logs though.

[Count Zero]

Have four Druids in your group and bring a Codex. Four Mass Entanglements completely trivializes the CC-able adds phase.

[Deleted]

"Have you killed the boss?"

"No"

"Come back when you have killed the boss"

*creates pug group*

"have you killed boss?"

"No"

"But you want to make a group and carried? lol join a pug scrub"


If I wasn't in a guild and clearing raids, I would probably stop playing. For everyone 1 group that actually leads pugs and progressives, there are 50 to 100 of the ones like the asshole thread starter. Yet, people are confused about how the community has maintained such toxicity.

Well there are reasons why people do this though. Because at the beginning there are ALWAYS groups who invite people without curve, expecting them to know the bosses. And there is ALWAYS a fkton of people who know NOTHING about what is going to happen and just expect to get carried, or boss explanation at every encounter. Then people get sick and tired of this egomaniac, lazy-ass attitude and start "curve only" groups. And even this is not enought so you also have to set a higher required itemlvl, look at logs etc...

So you see, it is not always just black and white...there is always a reason why things are like they are right now. WOW is an MMORPG so if you do not want to make friends, commit to a little schedule for one day of hc raiding, well then don't expect getting everything just handed to you. There are a LOT of opportunities to get into pug raiding. There are twitch streamers who do viewer raids, there is a community for unexperienced players on discord, you could gear up in normal and m+ and get into a pug without curve but higher itemlvl req, you could put in some work by yourself and start your own pug. But then don't expect that 960+ players will carry you.

It's not always easy, but it was your choice so deal with it. I got buddies who quit our mainraid and had a hard time getting curved in pugs without achievements, but guess what. They all did it. So it is possible.
Stop looking for excuses or made up reasons why it is not working. Just make it work. :*

[Sylvaeres]

See, I'm noticing nobody has suggested the idea that by the time you've gotten to coven, you should have already filtered out the bad players and removed then from your group. You have 8 bosses to find out who does terrible dps, who repeatedly fails mechanics, who dies often. Those players should be removed before getting to coven

[wrynil]

I dont use no addons and I do just fine with simply copy/pasting..

[MechaCThun]

I came in expecting actual fight mechanics reasons as to why people wipe on Heroic Coven.







Dunno why I expected this to be honest.

[Deleted]

See, I'm noticing nobody has suggested the idea that by the time you've gotten to coven, you should have already filtered out the bad players and removed then from your group. You have 8 bosses to find out who does terrible dps, who repeatedly fails mechanics, who dies often. Those players should be removed before getting to coven

This. IMO, this is a much better way of finding out who is suitable, and who isn't. Let's be honest, there are loads of people out there who buy boosts to get Curve, which kinda makes it obsolete for checking someones ability.

[Battlebeard]

TL DR; I'm an elitist and I'm better than these non-curved losers.

Seriously, what is this kind of thread. If you don't like some groups, just leave them. What are you trying to do with this thread other than say that YOU know Coven very well. Brag thread? Narcisist much?