PvP Templates

[Whatever Dude]

Am I the only one who hates this feature? I understand they help with balance but as it stands, Talents are the only thing that offer any customization for your toon in PvP.

I just want more customization offered. I want an option to build my character around the way I see fit and hopefully do good with it. Why is that too much to ask? Why do we need the developers stepping in for us, tweaking our characters for us instead of letting us in the driver's seat? This is still a role-playing game.

[A Chozo]

Nah, I like it. I can tailor my character all the way I want in the Open World.

[Deleted]

templates are a good idea, but i miss the pvp gear progression, getting 2x 4x set bonus
also i miss onuse trinkets in bgs (

[TheReallyBigtuna]

I guess it really helps them with balancing pvp.

[Vojka]

They need to get rid of them and bring back the pvp gear, ultimately I think it’s healthier for the game, it may infringe on balance a little but I personally think its a worthy compromise in order to bring back character progression in pvp, sometimes it was a bitch to gear up but damn it felt satisfying when you got it all, you felt so powerful.

I don’t know call me crazy I guess but I really like the idea of earning gear and getting more powerful in my rpg video game.

[Schattenlied]

Am I the only one who hates this feature?

Nope. /10chars

[Gardoc]

You're not the only one, PVP participation is all time low because of templates (and pruning and reward system). It was the worst thing that happened to PVP.

[Craaazyyy]

templates are stupid and shouldnt be in the game

it brings nothing to the game, only makes the game even more boring.. no customization in MMO is super dumb

[Mafic]

Here is why Templates fail.

What makes templates worse and insidious is that it hurts new players more than veteran players.

I know that I can go to a PVP target dummy and compare my damage from a regular dummy. I also know from experience what the template reduces what abilities and spells in PVP compared to PVE.

New PVP players do not know that. Worse, these new PVP players can not look this information up. Pre template era...players could look up gear builds, stats, and know exact values. Legion PVP the values are hidden and only show up on tool tips in instanced PVP or the PVP dummy.

And asking players to re-learn entire specs and classes in PVP because of template system changes everything makes it harder on new PVP players.

Pre template era of PVP, you could understand the limits of your class because they played fairly closely in PVE. And there was an upper gear ilevel cap in instanced PVP. In Legion they removed the upper cap of gear ilevel thus invalidating the entire premise of a template system. As Asmongold said it Blizz tried to appease two different player bases by straddling that fence of progression of gear vs fairness of PVP fights with Legion PVP system. What Legion offers is shorter seasons with no upper gear cap ceiling that can ever be reached because of titanforged gear. But you are told that "gear doesn't matter" when in fact it doesn't matter IF you are close in ilevel to high level geared players. But for a new player that is 880 ilevel up against someone that is 950 ilevel that gap is huge. Because as we all know the principal of war buff isn't just a 7% difference in raw power between those two examples. There are modifiers and multipiliers along with honor talents that create a power gap dispairty that is greater than 7%.

And these numbers are still significant, because Blizz does nerf and balance auras and templates with single digit percentages.

And why even have a template system when they have an aura system in the first place? If Templates were so great they would apply it to work in PVE as well. But Blizz only balances classes and specs in PVE via class and spec auras. As a result leaving some degree of player gearing choices.

As for testing goes what is the point of a template system where we can not give feedback or player input? Worse, where is the level of transparency with the entire template system?

Why was the sticky removed showing adjustment to class/spec auras and templates? Why wasn't it updated?

The faster adjustments haven't happened, and the only adjustments for PVP templates coincide with changes that happen with the PVE aura first. The entire selling point of the template system was that changes could happen independently of PVE changes and on a different time table than the PVE patch raid cycle.

I would argue adjustments for PVP in legion are sub standard compared to MOP.

It wasn't fun for PVE players to have to earn PVP gear to do PVP. But Blizz addressed that in WoD by scaling down PVE gear in PVP. But PVE gear was still relevant in WoD but not best in slot. PVP gear was best in slot in PVP and as it should always be.

1. PVP tuning this expansion is worse than previous expansion. Blizz has had the ability to balance spells and abilities separate from PVE since Cata (eg Find Weakness working differently in PVP compared to PVE as an example).

2. Multiple sets of gear for PVP is good, because it promotes different build options.

3. Removing player choice and failure means you are depriving the individual the ability to learn and grow as a player.

4. This still happens in Legion. Noobs with 870 gear being stomped by 960 mythic+ geared characters still happens.

Which is why templates are bad. Pruning and PVE having better gear methods isn't going to change anytime soon.

Templates as predicted in Legion ALPHA would be a failure. And they are a failure by every measure.

[MechaCThun]

Templates are decent step in a decent direction but by now means is it, in its current iteration, a solution.

-- snip --

^ Also, this.

[Illiterate]

I guess it really helps them with balancing pvp.

And how has that worked out so far?

[Nihilan]

And how has that worked out so far?

1. Blizzard implements unpopular changes to pvp.
2. Unpopular changes remove 75% of the players from pvp.
3. Blizzard receives 75% fewer complaints about pvp.
4. Pvp is now 75% less unpopular.
5. ???
6. Blizzard congratulates themselves on a job well done.

[Deleted]

PvP Templates are just a lazy design, that's it. For almost 9 years we have been playing without PvP Templates and without PvP talents and we did it just fine.
Is PvP any better/more balanced with PvP templates added into the game? Nope.

If we are forced to take this cheap crap, why then blizzard doesn't implement something like pve templates too? We want pve to be perfectly balanced, so please add pve templates with fixed stats. Oh and allow only 4 specs to be represented in pve: Frost Mage for those who wanna play ranged class, Arms Warrior for melee playerbase, Guardian for tanking and Holy Priest for healing. Ty. /Sarcasm off.

If i want to play a perfectly balanced game i would stick with chess.

[Caolela]

PvP Templates are just a lazy design, ...

That's where people with this outlook have gotten it wrong. Templates is not a 'lazy' design. I'm sure it wasn't easy to implement it with the change in gear and dependency on ilvl, with ability pruning, talents, AP, layers of RNG and so on. Many at Blizz must have worked hard to get the system changed over to Legion's from what it had been before. Blizz certainly put a lot of work and money into the hype & spin to sell it.

If you think a $4 billion corporation like Activision is going to let these guys sit around and be lazy and/or incompetent with one of their premier titles, then you're naive.

What Legion really is: a greedy design, one that draws more noobs/very casual players in and keeps people logged in longer to grind. It was designed with shareholders and max profit in mind, not players.

[Clone]

Only thing about the template is that it scales with ilvl. Blizzard need to stop this half measure approach and set it to be completely equal.

[Dmitro]

i dont care about ilvl system as long as trinkets are usable, and they arent.