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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Were you under the impression that Lucas had any fucking clue what he was doing with the story when he wrote A New Hope?

    If so, why did Luke french kiss his sister during ESB? Because incest is hawt?
    Probably not, but I wouldn't put it past him. He did after all want Indie's relationship with Marion to have been when she was 12-15 and he was in his mid-20s, "because it was hawt".

    ANH was also written as a one-off. I think it's reasonable to have higher expectations that three movies being written as a trilogy have a better story direction than what was given to us.

  2. #242
    That explains;



    Written in 1978, right after ANH.

  3. #243
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    Probably not, but I wouldn't put it past him. He did after all want Indie's relationship with Marion to have been when she was 12-15 and he was in his mid-20s, "because it was hawt".

    ANH was also written as a one-off. I think it's reasonable to have higher expectations that three movies being written as a trilogy have a better story direction than what was given to us.
    Doesn't help when the kiss in question was in Empire, and the sister reveal was in RotJ.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Exactly. Lucas had a broad idea of where he wanted to go, but he changed the story so much that you would barely recognize the story by reading the first drafts. Speaking of Leia, she was not supposed to be Luke's sister. The "other Skywalker", Luke's sister, was to be introduced in Episode 6. And the Emperor was not supposed to die either. That was reserved for Episode 9! Oh, and in ANH, Vader was not even supposed to be Luke's father...

    I find it strange that people blame the absence of Lucas for the "failure" of the new trilogy, when his presence was blamed for the "failure" of the prequels...
    I don't know if he ever had a plan for what that "there is another" tease in ESB was going to be. There's no evidence of a different plan in the early ROTJ scripts IIRC.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Yeah, if memory serves they came up with the idea of Vader being Luke's dad basically as they filmed the scene, it wasn't planned at all. It ended up working of course, but let's not act as if the original trilogy was tightly plotted. I'm pretty sure more thought goes into the overarching story of the MCU.
    I think the order of events was Lucas hired Leigh Brackett to write the first treatment (in which Luke's father isn't Vader and Leia isn't his sister), but she died shortly after, and Lucas rewrote the script a few times after that. I'm not sure where he inserted Vader/Luke, I've always assumed it was one of the subsequent scripts.
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    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  5. #245
    Immortal Helden's Avatar
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    It never had any magic to begin with.
    "I do not stand with Horus. I stand against the Emperor. Do you understand, Kauragar? I am free now. Free. Can you understand that? Why have you all spent these last decades telling me I should feel honoured to live as a slave, when I was so close to dying free?"
    - The Primarch Angron.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    It never had any magic to begin with.
    You had to be there when ANH first came out. It was a phenom that was surreal. And it gave most a sense of wonder that, well, I think we all felt as Luke did when he was gazing at the horizon...hungering for something ineffable...

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    You had to be there when ANH first came out. It was a phenom that was surreal. And it gave most a sense of wonder that, well, I think we all felt as Luke did when he was gazing at the horizon...hungering for something ineffable...
    I really don't understand the appeal of Star Wars, especially when people say this sort of stuff, ANH is bang average in my eyes, nothing more.

    Empire Strikes back is decent, and Return was a decent climax, and that's about it.

    It's never been anything more than a trilogy of blockbusters that spawned an Expanded Universe.
    "I do not stand with Horus. I stand against the Emperor. Do you understand, Kauragar? I am free now. Free. Can you understand that? Why have you all spent these last decades telling me I should feel honoured to live as a slave, when I was so close to dying free?"
    - The Primarch Angron.

  8. #248
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    I really don't understand the appeal of Star Wars, especially when people say this sort of stuff, ANH is bang average in my eyes, nothing more.
    And that's what he means.

    Prior to ANH hitting theaters, science fiction was all at the level of Star Trek: TOS. Cheap props, model spaceships with visible wires, guys in funny rubber suits. Star Wars completely upended the entire concept of what special effects were in film.

    If you weren't there to experience it, and grew up in the late '90s/early aughts, sure, the special effects and suspension of disbelief they generated won't be as impactful. But that's a demonstration of your failure to understand the huge leap forward that it was.

    It's like saying that Citizen Kane is boring because it's so cliche. It isn't. It was utterly groundbreaking in terms of film design. Those things became cliches because everyone copied Citizen Kane, because it was so great in so many ways.

    It's like saying H.G. Wells' The Time Machine is a silly-ass novel that makes very little sense. When you can thank that novel for the entire concept of time travel, in all its many subsequent forms.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's like saying H.G. Wells' The Time Machine is a silly-ass novel that makes very little sense. When you can thank that novel for the entire concept of time travel, in all its many subsequent forms.
    Or curse it, considering how often time travel stories are terrible ;-)

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Star Wars was Ruined Forever when the Holiday Special came out in 1978!

    ... Well... I mean...

    That's not wrong...

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