Star Wars - Where’s the magic gone?

[cubby]

Hey. I’m second gen Star Wars. Episodes 1-3 were my time for Star Wars leading into both Clone Wars series. Once thing I feel Star Wars has lost is the magic feel.

I felt it in Episode 4-6, certainly 1-3, all the clone wars and def incl games like Star Wars the Old Republic (KoTOR & SWTOR) who really did a great job capturing it all. But I must say. I haven’t felt that magic feel in any of the new ones. Not 7, Rogue 1 or 8 altho I really enjoyed Rogue 1 & 8 something feels missing.

One thing I certainly missed was futuristic looking civilisations and worlds and high octane force user action. New films have great story but feel bland and like they are afraid to move on. Did we need 7-9 to be fighting as rebel underdogs again? Had enough of that for SW Rebels and 4-6 did it well enough. It’s also a bit depressing to see nothing changed in the galaxy after Emperors defeat it’s like they just replaced everything like for like and told the same story which while better was like WHY?

Wonder if we have any 3rd gen Star Wars folk where Episode 7,8 and Rogue 1 are your first experiences of Star Wars and you’ve since gone back and watched everything.

There isn't much of a story to tell, at least as the big picture one, other than rebels fighting against the evil empire. One way to look at it is that three generations get their own series, looking at the rise and fall of good and evil.

The spin-off stories will be coming soon, han solo and obiwan, along with the enormous canon that they can draw from now. So far the movies have been good - although a friend of mine said after seeing 7, "I've already seen this movie before" - and he had a point. 8 ended like 5 did, to a lesser or greater extent. I thought it was also weird that Snokes died instead of Ben Solo. I'm not sure that Kai-lo is strong enough to beat a fully trained Ren, and unless 9 brings us an entirely new Jedi opponent, it will be interesting to see how they build that up.

Side note: I wonder how much time they'll have said to pass in 9 to cover for Carrie Fisher's (and therefore Princess Leia's) death.

[Crillam]

Because during the original and even the prequels, movies were not as big as it is today. Back in 70-80s there was nothing to compare it to. Sure there was Alien, Indiana Jones, Clockwork Orange but it was never on the same level as the Star Wars movies. Star Wars was a hugh spectacle when it came and it brought new stuff to the cinema.

If we are going to compare it to today when we get to see huge movies a few times a year, Star Wars is just one out of many. Sure it still have the biggest fanbase and each time I've gone and seen one there are old people at the cinema, like in their 60-70s. I've never seen that when I've watched a Marvel or DC movie. Anyway, in the end Star Wars doesen't bring anything new to the table as it did in the late 70s and early 80s. Even the prequels and how George used CG as heavily as he did, it was something new and back then actors seemed to complain. Look today and it is pretty much the norm.

Also nostalgia.

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Side note: I wonder how much time they'll have said to pass in 9 to cover for Carrie Fisher's (and therefore Princess Leia's) death.

She will maybe die of a broken heart, knowing her bro is now also dead. Like mother, like daughter you know.

[cubby]

Because during the original and even the prequels, movies were not as big as it is today. Back in 70-80s there was nothing to compare it to. Sure there was Alien, Indiana Jones, Clockwork Orange but it was never on the same level as the Star Wars movies. Star Wars was a hugh spectacle when it came and it brought new stuff to the cinema.

If we are going to compare it to today when we get to see huge movies a few times a year, Star Wars is just one out of many. Sure it still have the biggest fanbase and each time I've gone and seen one there are old people at the cinema, like in their 60-70s. I've never seen that when I've watched a Marvel or DC movie. Anyway, in the end Star Wars doesen't bring anything new to the table as it did in the late 70s and early 80s. Even the prequels and how George used CG as heavily as he did, it was something new and back then actors seemed to complain. Look today and it is pretty much the norm.

Also nostalgia.

One could argue that there is nothing new to bring to the table re movies, for anyone.

She will maybe die of a broken heart, knowing her bro is now also dead. Like mother, like daughter you know.

Brutal. They might just kill her over complications from being ejected into space. That would work for me. I hate to say it, but she wasn't that much of an actress. I love what she did in the originals, but I never really enjoyed her performances in either 7 or 8.

[Frontenac]

There isn't much of a story to tell, at least as the big picture one, other than rebels fighting against the evil empire. One way to look at it is that three generations get their own series, looking at the rise and fall of good and evil.

The spin-off stories will be coming soon, han solo and obiwan, along with the enormous canon that they can draw from now. So far the movies have been good - although a friend of mine said after seeing 7, "I've already seen this movie before" - and he had a point. 8 ended like 5 did, to a lesser or greater extent. I thought it was also weird that Snokes died instead of Ben Solo. I'm not sure that Kai-lo is strong enough to beat a fully trained Ren, and unless 9 brings us an entirely new Jedi opponent, it will be interesting to see how they build that up.

Side note: I wonder how much time they'll have said to pass in 9 to cover for Carrie Fisher's (and therefore Princess Leia's) death.

I hope they don't kill Princess Leia. They just have to set Episode 9 a few years later. The Resistance would have grown, Po Dameron would be the leader of a cell and Leia would be busy elsewhere. We would hear about her, but she would not be in the movie. Afterall, we only saw Mon Mothma a few minutes in the original trilogy, and we never saw her again in ROTJ. That way, they would be able to still use her character and expand her story in novels, video games and TV shows.

[cubby]

I hope they don't kill Princess Leia. They just have to set Episode 9 a few years later. The Resistance would have grown, Po Dameron would be the leader of a cell and Leia would be busy elsewhere. We would hear about her, but she would not be in the movie. Afterall, we only saw Mon Mothma a few minutes in the original trilogy, and we never saw her again in ROTJ. That way, they would be able to still use her character and expand her story in novels, video games and TV shows.

I hate to tell you, but she will be dead. They've already confirmed that they won't try to CGI her back into 9. She might come back on limited basis as a Jedi ghost, doubtful, but she's gone as a live character.

And 9 had been tentatively slated as "her episode".

[Frontenac]

I hate to tell you, but she will be dead. They've already confirmed that they won't try to CGI her back into 9. She might come back on limited basis as a Jedi ghost, doubtful, but she's gone as a live character.

And 9 had been tentatively slated as "her episode".

Read carefully what I wrote: they don't have to show her. I would prefer to know off-screen that Leia is still alive but working elsewhere, than learning off-screen that she died. Or worse: showing us some random ship exploding. "Oh no! General Leia is dead!"

[Crillam]

Brutal. They might just kill her over complications from being ejected into space. That would work for me. I hate to say it, but she wasn't that much of an actress. I love what she did in the originals, but I never really enjoyed her performances in either 7 or 8.

One part of me thought it was good that they did not change anything to her story in 8. They had some pretty good scenes were they could have writen her out of the story with ease. It will be a problem now in 9 instead. They have said they will not re-create her with CG. So my guess is that her death will be revealed in the opening crawl. Like your idea with the exposure to space.

Well she barely did any acting for many years. Most small cameos on TV shows or movies. I would even argue she never was that good of an actress in the first place.

[Jastall]

Were you under the impression that Lucas had any fucking clue what he was doing with the story when he wrote A New Hope?

If so, why did Luke french kiss his sister during ESB? Because incest is hawt?

Yeah, if memory serves they came up with the idea of Vader being Luke's dad basically as they filmed the scene, it wasn't planned at all. It ended up working of course, but let's not act as if the original trilogy was tightly plotted. I'm pretty sure more thought goes into the overarching story of the MCU.

[cubby]

Read carefully what I wrote: they don't have to show her. I would prefer to know off-screen that Leia is still alive but working elsewhere, than learning off-screen that she died. Or worse: showing us some random ship exploding. "Oh no! General Leia is dead!"

I did. She's dead. 9 won't have her in the story line - as per the Abrams. I hear what you're saying, but I would expect a better story line of how she died, with several years passing between 8 and 9.

Agreed - I do hope the do it better than just a ship exploding.

[Deleted]

Problems for me:
Lack of progression in the universe
Rehashing the same old story
Lack of deeper characters besides Kylo; actually everyone besides Kylo feels bland and one-dimensional
Lack of cool Jedi/force action
Lack of anything resembling a living, breathing universe

[Shadowferal]

Problems for me: Lack of progression in the universe Rehashing the same old story Lack of deeper characters besides Kylo; actually everyone besides Kylo feels bland and one-dimensional Lack of cool Jedi/force action Lack of anything resembling a living, breathing universe

"Cool Jedi/Force action is why I posted the video above.
That had been the first time I had ever seen such an offensive...violent unstoppable, unapologetic use of the Force that was far better than in any of the movies.

[Aurrora]

Were you under the impression that Lucas had any fucking clue what he was doing with the story when he wrote A New Hope?

If so, why did Luke french kiss his sister during ESB? Because incest is hawt?

Probably not, but I wouldn't put it past him. He did after all want Indie's relationship with Marion to have been when she was 12-15 and he was in his mid-20s, "because it was hawt".

ANH was also written as a one-off. I think it's reasonable to have higher expectations that three movies being written as a trilogy have a better story direction than what was given to us.

[Shadowferal]

That explains;



Written in 1978, right after ANH.

[Endus]

Probably not, but I wouldn't put it past him. He did after all want Indie's relationship with Marion to have been when she was 12-15 and he was in his mid-20s, "because it was hawt".

ANH was also written as a one-off. I think it's reasonable to have higher expectations that three movies being written as a trilogy have a better story direction than what was given to us.

Doesn't help when the kiss in question was in Empire, and the sister reveal was in RotJ.

[Mormolyce]

Exactly. Lucas had a broad idea of where he wanted to go, but he changed the story so much that you would barely recognize the story by reading the first drafts. Speaking of Leia, she was not supposed to be Luke's sister. The "other Skywalker", Luke's sister, was to be introduced in Episode 6. And the Emperor was not supposed to die either. That was reserved for Episode 9! Oh, and in ANH, Vader was not even supposed to be Luke's father...

I find it strange that people blame the absence of Lucas for the "failure" of the new trilogy, when his presence was blamed for the "failure" of the prequels...

I don't know if he ever had a plan for what that "there is another" tease in ESB was going to be. There's no evidence of a different plan in the early ROTJ scripts IIRC.

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Yeah, if memory serves they came up with the idea of Vader being Luke's dad basically as they filmed the scene, it wasn't planned at all. It ended up working of course, but let's not act as if the original trilogy was tightly plotted. I'm pretty sure more thought goes into the overarching story of the MCU.

I think the order of events was Lucas hired Leigh Brackett to write the first treatment (in which Luke's father isn't Vader and Leia isn't his sister), but she died shortly after, and Lucas rewrote the script a few times after that. I'm not sure where he inserted Vader/Luke, I've always assumed it was one of the subsequent scripts.

[Deleted]

It never had any magic to begin with.

[Shadowferal]

It never had any magic to begin with.

You had to be there when ANH first came out. It was a phenom that was surreal. And it gave most a sense of wonder that, well, I think we all felt as Luke did when he was gazing at the horizon...hungering for something ineffable...

[Deleted]

You had to be there when ANH first came out. It was a phenom that was surreal. And it gave most a sense of wonder that, well, I think we all felt as Luke did when he was gazing at the horizon...hungering for something ineffable...

I really don't understand the appeal of Star Wars, especially when people say this sort of stuff, ANH is bang average in my eyes, nothing more.

Empire Strikes back is decent, and Return was a decent climax, and that's about it.

It's never been anything more than a trilogy of blockbusters that spawned an Expanded Universe.

[Endus]

I really don't understand the appeal of Star Wars, especially when people say this sort of stuff, ANH is bang average in my eyes, nothing more.

And that's what he means.

Prior to ANH hitting theaters, science fiction was all at the level of Star Trek: TOS. Cheap props, model spaceships with visible wires, guys in funny rubber suits. Star Wars completely upended the entire concept of what special effects were in film.

If you weren't there to experience it, and grew up in the late '90s/early aughts, sure, the special effects and suspension of disbelief they generated won't be as impactful. But that's a demonstration of your failure to understand the huge leap forward that it was.

It's like saying that Citizen Kane is boring because it's so cliche. It isn't. It was utterly groundbreaking in terms of film design. Those things became cliches because everyone copied Citizen Kane, because it was so great in so many ways.

It's like saying H.G. Wells' The Time Machine is a silly-ass novel that makes very little sense. When you can thank that novel for the entire concept of time travel, in all its many subsequent forms.

[tyrlaan]

It's like saying H.G. Wells' The Time Machine is a silly-ass novel that makes very little sense. When you can thank that novel for the entire concept of time travel, in all its many subsequent forms.

Or curse it, considering how often time travel stories are terrible ;-)