How is Outlaw in casual raiding? LFRNormal/Heroic Raiding?

[Deleted]

It's fun to play, but the numbers are quite undertuned.

Outlaw is godlike in mythic+ due to the awesome cc it has.

You do know it´s simming higher than sub, right?

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In other words less than 1% of the players have all that. ..lolOutlaw.

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Haha.

Sad but true as that is what people are arguing.

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Yeah go SND. RTB is a waste of time and only applicable in extreme circumstances and gear set ups.

RTB is stronger in the vast majority of situations... So what you said is flat out wrong.

[Puupi]

You do know it´s simming higher than sub, right?

It's still worse than most melee specs.

[Deleted]

It's still worse than most melee specs.

That doesn´t really matter here, he asked regarding the rogue class, in the rogue forum, so you saying the numbers are low is wrong information.

[McFuu]

Title eltit

Outlaw is fine for casual, basically everything is fine for casual as long as you can actually play the spec. Outlaw isn't overly difficult and outside of Mantle doesn't have much of a Leggo requirement.

[delus]

You do know it´s simming higher than sub, right?

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RTB is stronger in the vast majority of situations... So what you said is flat out wrong.

SND is simming higher for me, that's what I care about. Yeah, I have access to a good gear setup to where it is a major gain over RTB but even if it were a loss, the RNG just isn't worth it. IMHO, they should go back to the original design and make RTB a talent and SND baseline

[Izzirez]

Outlaw is completely fine. Progressing in Mythic with it with no problems.

[Greylan]

SND is simming higher for me, that's what I care about. Yeah, I have access to a good gear setup to where it is a major gain over RTB but even if it were a loss, the RNG just isn't worth it. IMHO, they should go back to the original design and make RTB a talent and SND baseline

Only if they baseline MFD. That's the only problem with the S&D build imo, is not having access to MFD.

[delus]

Only if they baseline MFD. That's the only problem with the S&D build imo, is not having access to MFD.

Which is why roll the bones was originally a really powerful bonus and a talent in the same row as MFD

[Deleted]

Hey im taking this thread so i dont have to Open Up another one. Im really interested in pushing Up 20s Keys and i Wonder If snd can Work it Out. Is the difference too huge compared to top Tier Specs?

[Maquegyver]

The sims are based on a fight with no mobility which is the biggest killer of outlaw DPS? I mean I play outlaw but lets be real the sims based on a no movement fight are inaccurate as all hell.

Outlaw is perfectly fine at all difficulties assuming you A) aren't bleeding edge B) aren't raiding with assholes.

[Deleted]

Seen high ranking logs using Acrobatic Strikes, if mobile fights is an issue that might be helpful over grappling hook?

[Deleted]

this sims are higher than sub, simply cause sub has worst scaling+worst t21 4part and outlaw is the best of all rogues on pantheon trinket ilvl1000, because the 2nd effect of it is based on meleehits

[Shoeboots]

Outlaw is doing great. I've seen Outlaw rogues absolutely destroy damage meters.

There are two main reasons that people perceive it to suck (which is incorrect): Stat Priority and Logs

Stat Priority: Because Outlaw requires Haste > All the Things, most rogues aren't geared for it because the other two specs hate haste. So if you're sub or sin, and you swap over to try it out, your numbers are terrible, even once you get the hang of it because you've been passing on Haste gear all expansion.

Logs: Outlaw is often misrepresented on logs because the top rogues in the world will virtually always play the spec that is even marginally better, leaving the logs disproportionate. For example, say a world first raider does 98% of the dps on Outlaw as he or she does on Assassination. He or she is always going to play Assassination, meaning that this world first raider's performance is only ever applied to the Assassination rankings. Multiply that by everyone running Mythic Antorus right now, and you have significantly fewer top players contributing to Outlaw's parses. leaving it low on the list. You can even play with Percentiles on Warcraft Logs to see this in action, the lower you go with percentile, the higher Outlaw is on the rankings.

[Deleted]

Outlaw is doing great. I've seen Outlaw rogues absolutely destroy damage meters.

There are two main reasons that people perceive it to suck (which is incorrect): Stat Priority and Logs

Stat Priority: Because Outlaw requires Haste > All the Things, most rogues aren't geared for it because the other two specs hate haste. So if you're sub or sin, and you swap over to try it out, your numbers are terrible, even once you get the hang of it because you've been passing on Haste gear all expansion.

Logs: Outlaw is often misrepresented on logs because the top rogues in the world will virtually always play the spec that is even marginally better, leaving the logs disproportionate. For example, say a world first raider does 98% of the dps on Outlaw as he or she does on Assassination. He or she is always going to play Assassination, meaning that this world first raider's performance is only ever applied to the Assassination rankings. Multiply that by everyone running Mythic Antorus right now, and you have significantly fewer top players contributing to Outlaw's parses. leaving it low on the list. You can even play with Percentiles on Warcraft Logs to see this in action, the lower you go with percentile, the higher Outlaw is on the rankings.

I really like your point of view, since i think most people say outlaws suck is cause of its bad reputation, which i think goes back to the super rng dps after the first nerfs. Nowadays you can see on logs that outlaw is more consistent. But as you mentioned noone plays it so noone ever will. I think same goes for like survival hunter or arcane mage. Even though im not quite sure about the haste requirement. In my case i play with SnD so haste sims least worthy for me. Idk about RtB since i deny it for its playstyle. Since Outlaw wasnt my main 3 months after launch, im currently at 924 ilvl,955 weapons, luckily shoulders and the pseudospeeddps boots. I got a 945 kingaroth trinket and a 895 specter and no T21 nor T20 bonus. Im simming for 1,2m dps on raidbots with standard requirements and 3313321 build. I can link that if you ask for. To me the interesting part is that i can can dummy dps that too, due to movement in bossfights this lowers naturally. Idk too much about simming as a chart to compare between specs but to me those numbers are really good considering the space for upgrades.

Cheers

[Deleted]

All 3 specs sim pretty evenly these days it seems.
Looking at t21 hc on herodamage theyre all pretty much 1.9xx Mil. Sin poison and exang, sub, outlaw snd. With outlaw rtb just breaking 2m.

Just not a fan of how rtb plays, snd is slightly behind and the loss of mfd is a bit irksome imo.
Went back to Sin from sub for now for variation.

[nerfproof]

I've had zero issue playing Outlaw SnD in Antorus. It's fun to play and once stated properly I feel is very competitive. I've found that on most fights if Im not topping meters im usually top 3 which is nice.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...f/stabacadabra