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  1. #1

    How is SWTOR doing

    Is there good story development?

    Is there cool stuff not from microtransactions?

    Is there pay to win?

    Is it worth the sub?

    How is endgame?

    How is PvP?

    Are there a lot of players?

    How is the community?

    How does the future of SWTOR look?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    Is there good story development?

    Is there cool stuff not from microtransactions?

    Is there pay to win?

    Is it worth the sub?

    How is endgame?

    How is PvP?

    Are there a lot of players?

    How is the community?

    How does the future of SWTOR look?
    It's still plugging along, but you can tell it doesn't get the attention it once did. Worth a sub? Yes, the free version is playable, but you won't enjoy it, as you are restricted in almost every aspect.

    The loot shop is entirely cosmetic. So as far as loot shops go it's pretty good, but it's still a loot shop. But if you're subbed you get a monthly stipend of cartel coins to use on the loot shop, so you can buy yourself a sweet looking mount or decorations for your strong hold.

    Selling loot from the Cartel Market is the only viable to make a lot of gold.

    The story has basically stagnated. I think they're focusing on PvP content this quarter, and none of old companions have come back to the story since the end of the Defend the Throne chapter.

    It's a cool enough game if you want to experience the original story-lines, play through the Eternal Empire storyline once, and mess around in a Star Wars universe. The people who still play do it because they love their collections.

  3. #3
    Thanks for the candor, I admit I was hoping for more optimism.

  4. #4
    My take on it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    Is there good story development?
    Sadly no. Development for swtor is at an all time low. Just a recent example. bioware couldn't desing and complete even one OPS/Raid in an entire year. They were only able to complete 3 bosses. The other 2 had to be pushed into 2018 and it looks like we are getting one at the end of January and the other isn't likely to come out till end of March or first of April.

    Development and content for this game is just atrocious in both how quickly they create and get content to gamers as well as it's repeat-ability.

    Is there cool stuff not from microtransactions?
    There is. You can get some cool things from just playing. The Gree vent, Bounty hunter event, plague event, life day event has some nice things. However, bioware does make sure the cartel market has some of the best things. The good here is many of those items are put in the GTN (auction house) for in game credits. They are expensive but you could play the game and buy most anything with credits but you would need to sub because of the F2P credit cap if you really want to play the GTN. It's a double edge sword kind of thing. As a sub you do get 500 coins a month, if you use a security key you get an additional 100. You could save up and get you some nice things or buy something and sell it on the GTN to make a fair amount of credits in game.

    Is there pay to win?
    So far this is one thing swtor has stayed away from. swtor right now is not pay to win. The min. it goes pay 2 win even I'm out at that point no matter what I have invested into the game.

    Is it worth the sub?
    There is a lot of content for a F2P gamer. You can play the complete 8 class stories for nothing and thats the best content this game has to offer. You have some restrictions as F2P like remove head gear showing cant be used, match colors cant be used but the biggest hurdle is the in game credit limit but for the content you play and what it's designed for. You can easily do it. It's not till later that you need those restrictions removed and then yes, if you plan to go above about level 50, it's best to sub.

    If you really don't want a reoccurring sub, at least sub for one month. Move to preferred status, a few restrictions lessened but not removed and you get all content up to that point. Thats a pretty good deal for $15.

    In the end, it's better to sub and have no restrictions if you can afford it.

    How is endgame?
    I cannot stress this enough, For a new player to SWTOR, end game has a lot to do. 8 or so OPS/raids, 15 or so flash points(dungeons), 10 or so Uprisings (mini dungeons), PVP and Galactic Star Fighter (space ship PVP). Conquest - A guild activity for doing most all content (some solo, some group)

    This content is fairly old and don' be shocked if you random and people expect you to know it. You are a bit behind the curve so to speak bt it's not a hard game to learn either.

    Sadly for us old swtor gamers, this goes back to content development. bioware is just lacking in about every way.

    How is PvP?
    Right now pretty good. We just had a server merger and things are popping quickly. If you like PVP it's in a pretty good spot right now. I'm not one to think PVP will ever really be balanced but it's not to bad right now.

    Are there a lot of players?
    Right now there are a lot of players but that is because a server merger that recently happened. Time will tell if numbers stay as high as they are now.

    How is the community?
    A toxic general chat as any other MMO. Find a guild that fits you and join. General chat is terrible as usual. Joining some groups might be a pain in the ass as some might expect you to know the content it's so old as well as expect you to know your class. For a new gamer though thats always a hurdle. Find a guild that fits you and go from there. It will smooth out the rough edges a bit better. If you expect to be mostly a solo gamer. You are good to go without that hiccup. There is a lot of solo to this game.

    How does the future of SWTOR look?
    Grim.
    • bioware relies on extremely old and stale content to hold gamers.
    • biowares content release pace is at an all time low and that doesn't look to change.
    • The content bioware does put out generally has way to many bugs than you would expect.
    • biwoares writing and story telling has gone down hill. When you play the 8 class stories you will be amazed. Everything after those starts to go downhill till you get to KotET/KotFE/Iokath (which is the current major story) and it has way more misses than hits. 27 or so chapters and about 4-5 were good. The other chapters are different levels of mediocre to just outright terrible for the bulk of them. Your mileage my vary but in general gamers were not happy about them.
    • Gamers are currently longing for the story to end right now it's so bad.

    The only upside to all that is bioware claimed they were working on more end game and group content this next year after nearly 2 years of solo content. It's time for some group/end game content we hear. Since they produced so little of that content over the past 2+ years, anything could be considered "MORE" as bioware once again plays on words. In this case I'm skeptical on what they can do and actually release.

    Like I said. The outlook ahead is pretty grim unless something changes with bioware/ea and few expect that to happen. The game will chug along and get updates but they will be few and little. The cartel market will get more and more focus as thats where they make money.

    The game isn't dead and it's not closing down anytime soon but it's not in the best shape unless you are a new gamer to it. That gamer has a fair amount to see before they very big issues with the game come to light.
    Last edited by quras; 2018-01-11 at 04:27 PM.
    Current subscriber: Refer code: http://www.swtor.com/r/t4QfLH
    What you get: 7 free days of play plus a bundle of goodies: http://www.swtor.com/info/friends

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    Thanks for the candor, I admit I was hoping for more optimism.
    It's in a bit (well, more than a bit) of a lul right now as they continue to slowly plug away at content updates following the last expansion and with the "new" (not so new anymore) producer on board. I'm really hoping that we'll see a big expansion announcement since he seems to want to take the game in a very different direction, but at the moment there's not too much exciting that's going on. Well worth it if you haven't played, but not something I'd recommend as making a "main" game with its status at the moment.

  6. #6
    @quras

    Thank you very much for the comprehensiveness of your answer. Unfortunately I did a lot of the main story lines a little after it came out. I loved the game but circumstances pushed me away from MMOs for a while. I'm going to pay close attention to the direction SWtoR and hope that it improves because it was.. great storytelling when I played(Sith Inquisitor.) Perhaps it will go that way again.

    Too bad no upvote system. I would give you one.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    Thanks for the candor, I admit I was hoping for more optimism.
    It's not meant to be super pessimistic, but the game has stagnated for a little while. It's still a great game IMO, with lots of stuff to enjoy as far as story content goes. The issue is that the majority of content to enjoy is REALLY old...like, from launch old. So as there's nothing wrong with the content itself, people who have been playing for a while have a little bit of a jaded outlook on the game because we've seen most of the content for over 3 years already.

    Having said that, what is there is highly enjoyable, IMO. The community is pretty much the same you'll see in any other free to play game, which isn't BAD per se, but it's not exactly known for super friendly people. The population size is healthy though.

    End game is not really there IMO, as it consists mostly of the Heroics/ Group content that you could do as you leveled up (almost all group content is viable permanently once you are able to access it, as you gain level appropriate rewards for everything). The number of actual end game only raids (called Operations) is VERY small and has been expanded by 2 bosses (yes, bosses, not whole raids) in the last 2 years.

    The cash shop is almost entirely cosmetic, with a couple exceptions that aren't at all unfair or close to pay to win. One is the color crystals that give +41 to power, crit, etc... and are available to use from level 10 onward. These can be bought from the shop, but can also be found on the auction house (called the GTN, Galactic Trade Network) which is why they're not really pay to win and while they have a noticeable impact on character power at low levels, you get equally powerful ones simply playing the game. These variants are just available at level 10 rather than at level 45+ which is why they are so attractive. The other thing from the shop that isn't simply cosmetic are the companions, Treek and HK-51 (HK just gives you ACCESS to him, not the companion himself, still need to do a quest chain in order to obtain). Even though all companions have been normalized to have all the roles (so any companion can be a tank, healer or DPS) some of them are still better at some roles than others. Treek for example is an exceptional healer and tank given some of her abilities which make her slightly better, or at least preferable, to some other companions. HK is one of the better DPS companions due to his Assassinate ability which allows him to instantly kill any non strong, standard or weak enemy (requires stack of a buff that takes time to build up so it's not super OP).

    Definitely worth the sub IMO, as I personally just can't stand playing it as anything other than a subscriber due to all of the stupid restrictions for non-subs, but also because you get a lot of quality of life improvements for being a sub (rested xp, no credit cap, etc...) as well as getting all of the content currently available, including all the expansions and chapter content unlocked for subbing once.

    I hope you check it out, it really is great and everything it currently has is worth the time. That said, given the past few years and the companies business decisions and the kinds of things they've implemented, the future of the game is uncertain and doesn't look great. We'll have to wait and see if it gets better.

  8. #8
    Few years ago I played Sith Warrior as my first character and it was fun single player experience but after that every other characters story I tried had a boring story.

    Bioware made a really fun single player game but honestly I never saw the point in trying to sub because the story was the most fun really. What is also a huge problem for me was how difficult Bioware made it to enjoy the F2P aspect of the game with ton of restrictions that was just aimed at pissing me off.

    I hope Bioware makes another Star Wars RPG with the Sith Warrior story premise, going around the galaxy being a bad ass assassin while trying becoming more powerful over the course of your journey. And don't mention The Force Unleashed because that game doesn't really go as deep as the TOR story when it comes to living as a Sith.

    Personally I don't see why you should sub for this game. Sure Bioware pisses you off at every corner but doing raid content isn't really worth the money honestly.
    Last edited by ati87; 2018-01-12 at 08:24 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Few years ago I played Sith Warrior as my first character and it was fun single player experience but after that every other characters story I tried had a boring story.

    Bioware made a really fun single player game but honestly I never saw the point in trying to sub because the story was the most fun really. What is also a huge problem for me was how difficult Bioware made it to enjoy the F2P aspect of the game with ton of restrictions that was just aimed at pissing me off.

    I hope Bioware makes another Star Wars RPG with the Sith Warrior story premise, going around the galaxy being a bad ass assassin while trying becoming more powerful over the course of your journey. And don't mention The Force Unleashed because that game doesn't really go as deep as the TOR story when it comes to living as a Sith.

    Personally I don't see why you should sub for this game. Sure Bioware pisses you off at every corner but doing raid content isn't really worth the money honestly.
    The ONLY reason I advocate for it is because a single month of sub unlocks ALL of post 50 content. All of that content IMO is definitely worth $14.99. Additionally, it gets rid of all the stupid reminders that you're NOT a subscriber, which I personally find distracting. That and you get some Cartel coins, which can be used to buy some cool stuff. The sub is worth it as long as you're actively playing at all, IMO. Doesn't even need to be raids and stuff just for all of the simple QoL improvements you get as a result.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post

    Bioware made a really fun single player game but honestly I never saw the point in trying to sub because the story was the most fun really. What is also a huge problem for me was how difficult Bioware made it to enjoy the F2P aspect of the game with ton of restrictions that was just aimed at pissing me off.

    SNIP.....
    Whats so difficult about the F2P experience that you couldn't enjoy it?

    What ton of restrictions are you talking about vs the ones I mention below?

    I did it for 4 of the 8 class stories and it's not something I'd call difficult for the content you are doing with is some leveling content / class story.

    2 hot bar was enough. Granted I didn't get to put rarely used abilities on it without thinnking a little but I didn't need the class buff on there or many other rarely unused skills. Just skills I needed to play. 2 was enough.

    It was also not difficult to play because I couldn't remove a helm or match colors. I didn't always look the best but hell, I wasn't paying any money either.

    Even the credit cap wasn't a problem with the content played and the level you get to.

    Maybe you meant the gear restriction where you can wear the highest color for your level? while it was a constant reminded that I was not a subscriber, not once it it hinder my enjoyment of the leveling class stories. You just don't need the gear to beat that content.

    I can't think of a single issue I had with F2P when I tried it that I would say made it difficult to enjoy the game for what F2P is designed for and thats the 8 class stories. Anything beyond that is still doable though.

    Now, if you wanted to get into end game of any sort be that PVE or PVP. Then the restrictions start to show their ugly head but lets be honest, if you are wanting end game and willing to play the game that long, you should have to pay something because you just got and played a shitload of content for nothing.

    Like Katchii said, A one time cost of $15 gets you a load of single player content and it's worth it for that low cost. To add to that, during that month of subbing time, save up your credits and remove some of those restrictions like the gear use, remove helm, match colors. Then all you have to really deal with is the credit cap and thats not a big deal since you should know when you drop back to a non-payer, end game really isn't for the non-payer. IT's made to get you into the story, not end game.

    I can see many benefits on why someone should sub to SWTOR even for the shortest amount of time.
    Current subscriber: Refer code: http://www.swtor.com/r/t4QfLH
    What you get: 7 free days of play plus a bundle of goodies: http://www.swtor.com/info/friends

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Whats so difficult about the F2P experience that you couldn't enjoy it?
    Constant reminders literally everywhere that you're not a sub. The lowered experience. Limited action bars. Inability to purchase more bag space given an extremely small default space. Currency limitations making the AH completely useless. No access to raiding or competitive PvP. IIRC there are still retrictions on the number of PvP matches you can do. Inability to equip epics without unlocking with money. End-game is 100% useless as you don't have access to the Command System.

    I mean, I could go on. SWTOR provides a lot with the default 1-50 storylines and that's great, but it's a pretty unpleasant experience compared to the F2P experience in pretty much every other MMO on the market. It reminds me a lot of the draconian restrictions in EQ2, which included locking off classes/races that weren't tied to expansions, limiting ability ranks, limiting item quality ranks etc. etc. etc. They lifted those after a while because they were driving away what few new/returning players they were getting.

    I've played SWTOR on and off and I generally avoid it like the plague as a non-sub because it's simply not a pleasant experience for the most part. It's absolutely still playable and I'm not claiming otherwise, you can get through all the 1-50 storylines by using multiple accounts or deleting old characters (or being preferred by dropping a bit of cash). But it detracts from the game experience itself, and doesn't leave players (or at least me) feeling a sense of enjoyment and satisfaction.

  12. #12
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    With Swtor I always suggest new players do 1 thing.

    Pay $30 for the 2 month Subscription and smash out as many of the Main Class Storylines that the can and take at least a Dark/Light Repub and a Dark/Light Sith through to max level.

    For the amount of great Story telling the game has it is worth it, but the game does have it's weaknesses at Max level, but there IS things to do if you want to find them and especially if you've never played before, there are a ton of Dungeons and such you can experience for the first time.

    That being said, you can do all the 1-50 cool class stories for free, but with limitations on your character. Though it's not limited enough that its unplayable. I've got a bunch of friends that play as free players to do the stories.

    There is also a Thread here for Referrals, Pick someone Random from that thread (or use the code in @quras Sig) and if you refer you will get some Sub time and some other stuff to help alleviate the F2P annoyance.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    SNIP...

    I mean, I could go on.
    Not much more as thats about it and none of those hinder playing the class stories which is what their F2P model is there for.

    You can still get a taste of PVP. You can even PVP all you want if you group with a sub but that doesn't change what the F2P model is there for. It sure isn't there so you can experience end game and never pay a dime.

    But it detracts from the game experience itself, and doesn't leave players (or at least me) feeling a sense of enjoyment and satisfaction.
    I think thats because they want more for nothing. They want more without having to pay a dime and hate being reminded they haven;t paid for this huge amount of content. SWTOR has some problems but to me, this area isn't one of them.

    Sure they could offer more for nothing but all that does is encouraged them to ask for more and still not pay. While I do think it's restrictive, it's designed for you to see the best the game has to offer and thats the class stories. It does that very well. You want to dive more into the game. Leveing to max. Play PVP a lot or do end game. We'll you should pay something.
    Last edited by quras; 2018-01-14 at 11:06 PM.
    Current subscriber: Refer code: http://www.swtor.com/r/t4QfLH
    What you get: 7 free days of play plus a bundle of goodies: http://www.swtor.com/info/friends

  14. #14
    A few weeks ago I resubbed for a month to catch up on the content.

    First of all I'd like to say that, despite it's flaws, I really loved this game at launch. I thought the gameplay was great and they made a decent wow clone in the SW universe while adding a lot of it's own flavor. Especially story driven content while not forgetting the MMO aspects.

    Shortly after, of course, players disappeared and new content came only slowly. I did not enjoy Hutt Cartel a lot but I fell in love again with the game with Shadow of Revan. Of course after that they changed a lot in the concept and focused too much on single player content. Knights of the Fallen Empire was a failure in my opinion, the game is not designed to work that way. It basically became a linear action game in tunnel levels but with MMO gameplay. That does not work. The Missions and story were also quite boring, I didn't touch the game for a long time.

    Up until a few weeks ago. I finished Knights of the Fallen Empire and was actually surprised by the end, I thought it was well done. And the next Single player Addon, Knights of the Eternal Throne was honestly A LOT better. There are a lot of diverse, interesting and fun ideas in the missions and they no longer felt like those long, dark, boring tunnels in KOTFE. But it was still linear content in an MMO.

    Now what about the endgame? They added a few new Flashpoints and the latest one is actually pretty neat, one of the best looking ones of not the prettiest flashpoint they ever made.
    Now the biggest change in the endgame is the command system. If you reach max level, everything you do that gives experience will give you command XP now, there are 300 levels of it and every level up you get a lootbox with gear and every 100 levels the tier from that loot gets better.
    Now mind you, I did that during a time when there was a 200% xp bonus on everything, so it was not as grindy as many people criticize it for. I actually enjoyed it a lot because they managed to make every single possible activity they designed in the past 6 years worthwhile and motivated me to do everything. I think that is a great change and is exactly what a game needs that doesn't get a lot of new content anymore: make the old content worthwhile again. It worked for me, I had a good time, but without the xp bonus things might look differently.

    So my advice, sub for 1 month and look at all the new content, then decide if you want stay subbed. I cancelled mine.

    My biggest problem with the game is the same since launch, the terrible performance. The game just never ran smooth and I must have played it with 5 or 6 different rigs by now. It's a mess and a shame. I might have stayed subbed if that wasn't the case, simply for the lack of a Star Wars videogame fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads View Post
    Selling loot from the Cartel Market is the only viable to make a lot of gold.
    that's not true, that certainly works but it's not the only way. I always earn money by selling augmentations and I made about 60million credits in the 2 weeks I played this time. I'd say that's good money for logging in a few times a day to buy material, craft augmentations and sell them.
    Last edited by moff; 2018-01-15 at 12:27 AM.

  15. #15
    Honestly, SWTOR would have made a great Single Player game with multiple chapters. It would have been pretty unique and intriguing. I don't know of another SPRPG that would let you you play though multiple characters in the same universe with unique personal stories.

    It would be my undying with that BW releases a single player version without all the MMOish filler you experience on the planets.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    @quras

    Thank you very much for the comprehensiveness of your answer. Unfortunately I did a lot of the main story lines a little after it came out. I loved the game but circumstances pushed me away from MMOs for a while. I'm going to pay close attention to the direction SWtoR and hope that it improves because it was.. great storytelling when I played(Sith Inquisitor.) Perhaps it will go that way again.

    Too bad no upvote system. I would give you one.
    If you didn't play the new storylines after the main story then it's well worth s sub though. Not for months on end but a few, till you're done.
    It might not be updated as much as it once was but the story that is there is still among the best that has ever been in a game.

  17. #17
    If you expect a KOTOR 3 with some added MMO grind/filler elements, then it's a fun game to play and well worth your time, or even a small investment to obtain Prefered status which alleviates some of the restrictions you get from not being subbed. Finish the various stories then put the game down.

    If you expect a replacement for WoW, pass. SWTOR's content release has been just pathetic in comparison.

  18. #18
    I'd argue that 1-50 is some of the best story telling for a MMO. But once you hit KOTEE its bleh... My toon is a smuggler he is not force sensitive and doesn't really give a crap about light vs dark, so yea Valkurion I am not your guy, I am pretty sure you want to control somebody else's body and I have no interest in leading an Eternal Alliance.

    What I am getting at is come the later expansions instead of being unique stories for each class, individual experiences, everyone gets shoe-horned into storyline X and if you don't enjoy/ not interested in story line X, will to bad because you have no other choice.

    I'd argue the game is worth a sub, get the 15$ one month and cancel before it bills you again for the nonrecurring 30$ sub. SWTOR is good in the short term but I can't see myself as a long term player.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    Is there good story development?

    Is there cool stuff not from microtransactions?

    Is there pay to win?

    Is it worth the sub?

    How is endgame?

    How is PvP?

    Are there a lot of players?

    How is the community?

    How does the future of SWTOR look?
    The third post on front page was written in 2016 .. Does that answer your question?

    Look, the company behind it pulled out any kind of funding needed to bring the game up to 2018 level .. Game engine (performance and responsiveness) as well as design regarding abilities and how the interact simply outdated ..

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Constant reminders literally everywhere that you're not a sub. The lowered experience. Limited action bars. Inability to purchase more bag space given an extremely small default space. Currency limitations making the AH completely useless. No access to raiding or competitive PvP. IIRC there are still retrictions on the number of PvP matches you can do. Inability to equip epics without unlocking with money. End-game is 100% useless as you don't have access to the Command System.

    I mean, I could go on. SWTOR provides a lot with the default 1-50 storylines and that's great, but it's a pretty unpleasant experience compared to the F2P experience in pretty much every other MMO on the market. It reminds me a lot of the draconian restrictions in EQ2, which included locking off classes/races that weren't tied to expansions, limiting ability ranks, limiting item quality ranks etc. etc. etc. They lifted those after a while because they were driving away what few new/returning players they were getting.

    I've played SWTOR on and off and I generally avoid it like the plague as a non-sub because it's simply not a pleasant experience for the most part. It's absolutely still playable and I'm not claiming otherwise, you can get through all the 1-50 storylines by using multiple accounts or deleting old characters (or being preferred by dropping a bit of cash). But it detracts from the game experience itself, and doesn't leave players (or at least me) feeling a sense of enjoyment and satisfaction.
    I just started messing around with this game, since a long break after release, and I could not agree more. It took me all of about 10 minutes, to give and pay the sub fee. It's not really a true FTP game, imo. Even the ways to limit the restrictions, also include acquiring mad cartel coins, which presumably you would get from buying loot boxes, etc.

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