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  1. #1

    If you could completely redesign the leveling process, how would you do it?

    So, how would you change leveling if you were given the option? I would implement the following:

    >Killing mobs gives no xp
    >PvP gives no xp
    >Dungeons give no xp
    >Quests give you a percentage increase in your level
    >On your first character, you need to complete all quests in the game to reach max level
    >On every subsequent character, you're given the option of either going through that process again, or simply creating them at max level.

    This isn't a Bioware rpg, the quests in this game have no replay value. Also, "you learn your class while leveling" has been disproven ages ago. There is nothing gained by going through the leveling process again, but this still leaves the option open for people who enjoy it.
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  2. #2
    For Azeroth!
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    Option for Adventure mode, basicly randomized world quests instead of questlines, different ones, dynamic objectives, and enough to not see a repeat.

    Just don't make the gear rewards like crazy RNG, and instead offer like a gear-token and a vendor, so you don't have to wait for X quest/Y gear slot/Z transmog to pop up.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer A Chozo's Avatar
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    I like the current model in the PTR, since people learn their class while leveling, which was proven ages ago. Players need to pass through the World of Warcraft - the leveling proccess. There is so much to be gained there, it's a important part of the game.

    Also, so many storylines happen in the leveling proccess. Open World, Dungeons, Raids - all is integrated.

  4. #4
    "I've seen this all before"
    *skip*

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    So, how would you change leveling if you were given the option? I would implement the following:

    >Killing mobs gives no xp
    >PvP gives no xp
    >Dungeons give no xp
    >Quests give you a percentage increase in your level
    >On your first character, you need to complete all quests in the game to reach max level
    >On every subsequent character, you're given the option of either going through that process again, or simply creating them at max level.

    This isn't a Bioware rpg, the quests in this game have no replay value. Also, "you learn your class while leveling" has been disproven ages ago. There is nothing gained by going through the leveling process again, but this still leaves the option open for people who enjoy it.
    I think it helps that doing stuff gives xp. Even if the rewards suck, at least the player goes 'meh, I'm a little closer to my next level'. As a game designer you want to reinforce this positivity loop.

    But I would allow players to skip levels once they have a character that has reached max level. I'm not sure if completing all quests in the game is even viable.. I mean, have you tried playing a AAA game whereby you have to complete sidequests to reach the true ending of the game (eg. Arkham Knight)? They get really tedious and repetitive at some point. WoW implemented an 'Abandon Quest' button for a reason.


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  6. #6
    Im pretty happy with what they doing in 7.3.5.

    Also happy they are bringing vanilla quests. So win win for me.

  7. #7
    Over 9000! endersblade's Avatar
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    I liked one of the systems Age of Conan has/had, where you earned levels on the account that you could grant to a character. I don't remember if the levels were just earned over time or if you had to do something for them, it's been too long. But WoW could do something like the RaF stuff where you earn levels to grant, except they would be on your account for you to use...basically something like every X amount of levels you legit level on a character, grants X amount of levels to grant to another character. Hit the max level for an expansion, get 10 levels to grant or some such. And you stop earning levels on a character that has been granted levels, to give incentive to continue leveling legit rather than getting to X9 and then granting a level to an expansion cap to get more levels.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    So, how would you change leveling if you were given the option? I would implement the following:
    >On your first character, you need to complete all quests in the game to reach max level
    Either you'd have to cut out a massive number of quests, or pretty much nobody would get max level ever. Some quests are really stupidly obscure, or grindy, or both. Then add in the sheer number of quests now in the game, and this would be absurd.

  9. #9
    The only thing I'd really revamp other than what is done one the PTR is the content itself. In Cataclysm they made a big mistake in making the stories and conflicts center around the expansion's overall theme, it's incredibly outdated by now and confuses new players a lot. What they should have done was to make stories about the zones themselves, if you had to solve some kind of conflict that was only present in the zone in question and not part of some global threat or overarching storyline it wouldn't have aged nearly as poorly, and it would fit the overall theme of you being an adventurer that has solved so many different conflicts at max level.

  10. #10
    Implement an achievement like the Loremaster one that unlocks a 100% extra xp for alts and the ability to fly from level 1.
    Squish the level back to 60 max for BFA, make 110 be 55. Make it so you can level from 1-50 in ANY zone, remove all level requirements for starting or ending zone (basically make all zones 1-50, except Legion zones).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post

    >Killing mobs gives no xp
    >PvP gives no xp
    >Dungeons give no xp
    >Quests give you a percentage increase in your level
    >On your first character, you need to complete all quests in the game to reach max level
    >On every subsequent character, you're given the option of either going through that process again, or simply creating them at max level.
    And this might be enough to actually kill off wow.

    Theres is no way new players would stick around, I'm just making rough estimations here but if you had to do every quest to hit max level and quest give X% of exp, given how many quests are ingame the exp reward would be stupidly low. What is it now in legion with no looms? 5 quests is 1 bar exp? I'd imagine at higher levels it would be a lot more quests to get a full bar.

    Then you've got to take other things into consideration. What if you play through it all, doing as many quests as you can find, doing all the main quest line and side quests you get to 109, the final zone, the final quest you hand it in you see the achi for loremaster of legion and the quest for the zone and your level is at 99.99%. You missed something somewhere along the way, one mob didn't drop an item to start the quest or you never noticed that tiny quest giver in the middle of no where.

    For me I'd stick with how it is now on PTR with a few changes,

    1. Rework looms into a single none equipable item which rewards the same amount of exp extra you currently get
    2. Remove EXP from pvp or atleast give an option to turn it off without being separated into your bg groups

  12. #12
    Add skip button for people who hate leveling and have one char at max level already

    Remove Heirlooms, because they make leveling less rewarding and arent needed anymore, now that you can just skip

    tune content, now that everyone is starting at the same gear level (7.35 might have done this in an okay way already, havent tried it yet)

    New way to reach max level, to combat ever growing level caps: Pick one old world continent and two expansions to reach max level. Other xpacs not chosen, can be done at max level for achievements and cosmetic rewards.
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  13. #13
    I liked the vanilla model a lot. The problem with it was the XP curve.

    To explain. In vanilla it was almost required to supplement XP from grinding. Questing alone wouldn't do it. Not really.

    I like the idea of quests sending you back and forth to different zones, and epic questlines that span zones and continents and 10 levels to complete. Again, the problem with vanilla was the lack of quests, or the quest XP progression, that put players into the position that they needed to supplement their XP with grinds from time to time.

    Vanilla didn't need a reboot. It needed an XP re-tuning. Quests needed more XP, and there needed to be less XP to level. That, or there needed to be more filler quests. A lot more quests. If I were to redesign the leveling process, that's how I would do it: vanilla style, with more quests.

    A close second would be Burning Crusade style: tons of quests with little direction. I loved coming into a quest hub and seeing quest givers all over the place and filling up my quest log to the brim. I believe Jeff Kaplan called it the Christmas Tree effect. He admitted that players liked it, but said that as a designer you lost control of the narrative. Well, fuck 'em. I'm a player, not a designer, and I like it. It's supremely addictive.

    Cataclysm is the worst for me as far as quests go. It's mostly go to a quest-giver, do 1 or 2 quests, return, do 1 or 2 more quests, return, do 1 more quest ("boss" quest), return - end of questline. Boring as hell.
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  14. #14
    Titan Aeula's Avatar
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    Whelp.

    First I'd revamp the world, repair some of cata's damage, add Silvermoon and the Exodar to their proper continents, remove all the joke and reference quests and declare them non-canon, make Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor scale to 110 with all the other continents remaining the same with the same scaling they'll have in 7.3.5, they'd basically be completely optional via a quest from some bronze dragon or another. All of the high level cata zones would be revamped too, might as well since they're physically connected to the other zones and having them trapped in time pockets feels disjointed.

    Next I'd add world quests to the levelling world, bonus activities that players can do for a crapton of rep and experience, much like the Legion Invasion world quests on the broken isles. You can indeed level up just by doing randomized world quests. World Quests give bonus rewards after completing the storyline of the zone they're in. These world quests would be reward-relevant at max level too, albeit with the bonus removed so you don't have to do EVERY zone for extra rewards at level cap.

    Dungeons would be re-balanced to not need a tank or healer and would require only three people to do, turning them into Scenarios, that'd dramatically reduce queue times. Exp-wise they wouldn't be as efficient at quests and world quests but they're more than viable.

    Heirlooms are changed and don't scale with your level, instead you are given a shirt with an experience buff which increases each time you purchase a unique 'heirloom' item. You can also toggle how much of this buff you desire, with it capping out at 300%, the equivalent of recruiting a friend.
    Hellscream's weapons and the WoD 100-110 trinkets continue to scale as intended.

    I think that'd fix it.
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  15. #15
    Merely a Setback Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    So, how would you change leveling if you were given the option?
    • Nothing, most the ideas has already been added for the next patch. Would be delighted to see a random generated event system for the old world, or a bounty system.
    • Would of course work on the world again.
    • join it all on one world realm instead of the scattered ones. (I am talking Azeroth).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    I would implement the following:

    >Killing mobs gives no xp
    Right, soooo, basically killing mobs has no value other than to help you with a quest. You've basically turnt it into a worse grind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    >PvP gives no xp
    And this'll make PvP have no value for low levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    >Dungeons give no xp
    And this'll basically make dungeons useless as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    >Quests give you a percentage increase in your level
    Like it already does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    >On your first character, you need to complete all quests in the game to reach max level
    That is why I cheer for pathfinder. Do your shit, and get luxury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    >On every subsequent character, you're given the option of either going through that process again, or simply creating them at max level.
    Uhm, no thanks. Would basically be the death of older content. I know the boost is there but there is a reason it is priced so high, I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    This isn't a Bioware rpg, the quests in this game have no replay value.
    Hardly any replay value in most Bioware RPG's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    Also, "you learn your class while leveling" has been disproven ages ago.
    Has been disproven by some, confirmed by others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    There is nothing gained by going through the leveling process again, but this still leaves the option open for people who enjoy it.
    No, one of your points would basically kill it because it is an optional cheat method that would be used more easily because it is free.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    So, how would you change leveling if you were given the option? I would implement the following:

    >Killing mobs gives no xp
    >PvP gives no xp
    >Dungeons give no xp
    >Quests give you a percentage increase in your level
    >On your first character, you need to complete all quests in the game to reach max level
    >On every subsequent character, you're given the option of either going through that process again, or simply creating them at max level.

    This isn't a Bioware rpg, the quests in this game have no replay value. Also, "you learn your class while leveling" has been disproven ages ago. There is nothing gained by going through the leveling process again, but this still leaves the option open for people who enjoy it.
    Completely disagree with everything.

  17. #17
    If I was given the chance to redesign leveling... I would just remove it.

    It serves no purpose. It's not progression. Progression starts at max level. It's nothing but a time gate.

    Blizzard could just remove leveling and leave questing as a means simply for Lore, gaining a little cash, and gearing up before dungeons.

    People would still do them. But for those that find grinding to max level as an annoyance, they can skip the entire process, and start running dungeons.

    iLevel is the real leveling anyways.

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