Wait a second, when did we ever ask for leveling to be long? Just hard, not long!

[Deleted]

So your solution to leveling is to create more levels? Why is it that level 121 is worse worse then level 120 + <insert your new numerical level system here>?

Leveling shouldn't be harder. Leveling shouldn't be longer. It still has a place but there is no reason for a level 45 to struggle clearing content when they will out level it. The content is meant to be consumed on the way to End game. Not to be the end game.

Having only "end game" at high level always sucked at WoW. There should be more to game than just mindless raid grinding. Look at GW2 or ESO they do it right, end game starts at level 1, properly told story, fun leveling experience, world is filled with players no matter where you go and getting to max level for raids is just cherry on top.

[Darktbs]

Are you sure?
I leveled my rogue in BG's from 100 to 110 but it didnt seem that amazing.
I just skiped one entire zone (Highmountain) and still did all the other zones.

A normal Bg rewards... more or less 20% if you lose and 40% if you win.Granted that this numbers are random but just you know that its a large amount of Xp compared to what Dungeons reward, which is not much if its is not the first Dungeon or if there aren't any quests.

I've seen times where my First Bg of the day rewarded 60% counting kills and objectives on it.

I leveled a Monk and a Druid in the last weeks and my strategy was to do:The frist Bg and Dungeon of the day.Quest while Queue for the Dungeons separetly and only doing those that i didn't complete any quest while questing in the open world.

If there was no dungeons i could do i would Queue for bgs.


The amount of Xp Completing a random dungoen is really small, and the bonus from LFD doesn't add much, its like, 3-4 quests.

[Killersoxfan]

Youre full of shit lol Bythelight. Not like it matters what you pretend to have done on the internet

[Mellrod]

Yes, let's just remove a base rpg element... No, leveling is fine, not perfect, but fine.

To be quite frank, it's archaic and gets repetitive when a game lasts for as long as WoW has. The way leveling works in games like WoW should probably change. There's nothing wrong with innovation over adhering to the same formulaic mold.

[Onikaroshi]

To be quite frank, it's archaic and gets repetitive when a game lasts for as long as WoW has. The way leveling works in games like WoW should probably change. There's nothing wrong with innovation over adhering to the same formulaic mold.

Not really anything better anyway... what gear level? What happens when a new expansion launches do they just scale indefinitely? Do the reset every expansion and therefor basically negate all character progression? There's no good answer, nor is leveling so bad it deserves to be ditched for something worse.

[FelPlague]

Why would any one in their right mind spend so much time leveling for the billionth time? We wanted leveling to be HARDER, not longer! This would allow people to level multiple toons in different regions so that it doesn't bore us to death and make people quit. Remember, what made it worth while in Vanilla was that Vanilla was the end game, we weren't thinking of the many more expansions to come...How many more levels do we need? why not stop at 120 and introduce other kinds of leveling?? This is just stupid.

you have to make it take longer to make it harder.
you cant possibly make leveling "harder" when mobs are 1 shot.
also with the new leveling scaling leveling is actuallty the same speed (and max only slightly longer) then before
why?
because when you pick up a quest hub (about 10 quests) by the time you go back to hand them all in, most of them will be green. so you get less exp. but now with scalling, it will still be yellow and oragne.


so no, leveling is not going to be "OMFG LIKE 100 HOURS LONGER" no it has been recorded as being 1-3 hours longer AT ITS LONGEST
also every game ever has added more leveling as new stuff comeso ut, why is what?

but no, new leveling is not hard, just you actuallty can do your rotation instead of simply putting a dot or firing one spell at a mob then moving to the next one.
to make leveling dificult in todays world would be nearly impossible, why? because it has to be able to new players these days, where the average player of games wants something that keeps them safe, and does not anger them.
look at games that are made to be rough, with no start up, and anger people. Known for their toxic community, and have little to no young, or old players, mostly appealing to only the college/teenage players.
League of legends, Dota, Darksouls, etc.

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To be quite frank, it's archaic and gets repetitive when a game lasts for as long as WoW has. The way leveling works in games like WoW should probably change. There's nothing wrong with innovation over adhering to the same formulaic mold.

except for when they innovate people dont like that.
allmost like they added 2 new "leveling styles" in legion and people did not like either of them...
hmmmmmmmmm.......

[Cyero]

Why would any one in their right mind spend so much time leveling for the billionth time? We wanted leveling to be HARDER, not longer! This would allow people to level multiple toons in different regions so that it doesn't bore us to death and make people quit. Remember, what made it worth while in Vanilla was that Vanilla was the end game, we weren't thinking of the many more expansions to come...How many more levels do we need? why not stop at 120 and introduce other kinds of leveling?? This is just stupid.

I agree! so far defeating mobs is a bit too easy!

[Deleted]

Long is time consuming. More sub time.
Hard is just an obstacle for players.

Im sure you can see Blizzard's point of view.

[thunterman]

Is that 5-10% longer in the novel experience on the PTR vs a longstanding method on live where all the shortcuts and time-sinks to avoid have been discovered and shared years ago? Sounds to me that net leveling duration will turn out to be the same if not even shortened.

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Finally someone that has actually put in some work instead of just spouting nonsense. Thank you for the effort and insights!

Thank you for being the one person that didn't overlook my post and continue flaming. Lol.

[Deleted]

To be quite frank, it's archaic and gets repetitive when a game lasts for as long as WoW has. The way leveling works in games like WoW should probably change. There's nothing wrong with innovation over adhering to the same formulaic mold.

Nope. It's fine. If you don't like leveling, XP, and RPGs in general, then feel free to quit. There are other games for people like you.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

How can the leveling be harder AND not take longer? XDDDDD

Whats the idea here, make the mobs die in one hit but they do a lot of damage?

Just play dark souls.... That game can beaten in 3 hours but it can take the average person a lot longer. It's something like 30 hours for first time players but 1-3 hours for experienced ones.

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Long is time consuming. More sub time.
Hard is just an obstacle for players.

Im sure you can see Blizzard's point of view.

It still only takes a day and if leveling is harder below average players will run up the clock up. Dark souls is a great example good players can beat the game in hours but bad or below average players can be their for weeks.

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The notion that people who leveled in Vanilla won't enjoy it a decade later is not entirely true. If it were, people wouldn't play private servers.

Sure mmos have evolved. This doesn't mean they're better. That's why people want an old, broken version more than all the fancy stuff we have now.

Also, while I agree that Vanilla leveling was largely a grindfest, you'd be wrong to say it was all easy in practice.

Compared to games like dark souls it is or was...

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Nope. It's fine. If you don't like leveling, XP, and RPGs in general, then feel free to quit. There are other games for people like you.

So, if you don't like one aspect of something you should quit...

[Monkeymoo]

Longer leveling is right up there with “yearly expansions”. They kept acting like it was something we all wanted when everyone I played the game with or talked to about it hated the idea.

[yetgdhfgh]

The only people who want leveling to be longer is nostalgia hounds and masochists!

Iam all for having the first run to be as long and as hard if that really means something but when you want to level up alts then blizz should always give the option to make leveling up alts easier IE Heirlooms!

It seems to me so many people are like virgins who want to recreate that first excitement of having sex the first time but i can tell you that feeling will never come the next time or the 40th time so please stop trying to recreate it cause it aint happening!

Its time to accept leveling up is meaningless once you have done it the first time or even the second time and blizz should make leveling up easier for those prepared to pay for it with gold and not with fucking real money!!

[Baroclinic]

LOL, morons complaining about leveling being too fast/easy is why we have the "tide challenge". If people wanted to make leveling harder or longer, then remove your heirlooms. Yes, you can do that, in fact you can remove all your gear except for anweapon if you really want the challenge.

[rhorle]

So, if you don't like one aspect of something you should quit...

Yes. If you don't like doing something then you should stop doing that something. Leveling is a large aspect of WoW and other games that include a leveling system. It is the whole point of having levels. If you don't like doing that then you shouldn't play a game that has stuff you don't like to do. Why are you trying to argue that you should do something you don't enjoy?

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Yes. If you don't like doing something then you should stop doing that something. Leveling is a large aspect of WoW and other games that include a leveling system. It is the whole point of having levels. If you don't like doing that then you shouldn't play a game that has stuff you don't like to do. Why are you trying to argue that you should do something you don't enjoy?

It honestly isn't anymore, It takes a day to reach max level now. The end game content takes more time and last longer. I'm arguing that just because you don't enjoy one aspect of a game doesn't mean you should quit. Especially when its a drop in the bucket of time spent playing overall, if you level at a decent speed.

[taliey]

We've been having this proxy debate about difficult and their synonyms and what the speaker meant by difficult.

It was always pretty clear to mean tedious and time consuming for no other reason than leet signaling.

[Magicpot]

Yes it is. The amount of time is also increasing far more than that. We're also getting 10 more levels soon on top of that.

That is ONLY if you've been spamming dungeons 1-60 beforehand. The actual "flow" of leveling is a lot better. You're looking at ~1d12h played to get to 110 still.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Why would any one in their right mind spend so much time leveling for the billionth time? We wanted leveling to be HARDER, not longer! This would allow people to level multiple toons in different regions so that it doesn't bore us to death and make people quit. Remember, what made it worth while in Vanilla was that Vanilla was the end game, we weren't thinking of the many more expansions to come...How many more levels do we need? why not stop at 120 and introduce other kinds of leveling?? This is just stupid.

Actually, how about both? I know that's what I want. Big emphasis on the I.

[Goondicker]

Compared to games like dark souls it is or was...

Sure, but that's Dark Souls' thing. It's known because it's challenging. If it were easy you'd probably never have heard of it. Just like Cuphead.

WoW isn't meant to be as hard as either of those. It's supposed to be "hard" enough to give you a sense of danger and investment in your character. Just not so hard that you're corpse running all the time.

At its core, it's an RPG. Early iterations of WoW hit a much better sweet spot in leveling difficulty. Now it feels like a chore instead of an adventure. Dark Souls type difficulty would feel the same, but on the opposite side of the spectrum. There is a pretty happy medium (that most players agree on).