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  1. #1

    Lightbulb A list of all the changes (or adjustments) that most people are actually ok with

    Hi there guys, I know a lot of us are passionate about this, but I've been reading threads left and right for more than 2 months now, and I believe that most people are OK with these reasonable (and often necessary) alterations.

    Here they are, do tell me what you think about those though (after all I might be wrong when I'm saying that the majority of the playerbase is ok with that, it's just my impression) :

    -PVE retuning: if you take into account the 1.12 talent trees and class changes, the itemization, the new addons that appeared the last 2 years, the fact that raids were changed and nerfed tons of times, and the fact that people's knowledge and skills are actually completely different nowadays, then you KNOW that a massive PVE retuning is in order, especially for early raids like MC and BWL, but it's the same idea for aq40 and naxxramas: coming from someone who raided on anathema (elysium).

    -Population cap: in the old days, the cap was around 2500. But nowadays, most people enjoy a 4000-6000 population cap. The nostalrius-like 13 000 cap is complete madness in my honest opinion, but I do believe that most people want something between 4000 and 6000.

    -No BGs at the launch of classic wow: this is actually not a change, it's simply something how things were early on. Launching the battlegrounds right at launch is probably not the best thing to do.

    -The implementation of authenticators, and the integration of the classic wow game into the Blizzard app (I doubt anyone really cares about that but well)

    -The removal of the old gamebreaking bugs, glitches and exploits.

    -dynamic mob respawn (like on Nostalrius): yeah, you guys know what I'm talking about. Having a world that's alive feels great, but it's even better when you don't have to wait an hour to kill a mob because you're competing because all the other players.

    -I'm not 100% sure about this one : having the option to chose between modern graphics and old: it's not something that would change the gameplay, or anything, but it is an important feature.

    -Adding the ability to report players/gold-sellers/cheaters similarly to how you can do so on live. With like a right click option report player.

    Those are the ones I could think of so far, but do tell me if there are others.

    edit: added the gold seller report feature as another possible change.
    Last edited by bluestalya; 2018-01-13 at 11:31 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    yeah, you guys know what I'm talking about.
    I have no idea of what you are speaking; I have not played on pirate realms.
    As of the other things? I would be okay with the population cap (will probably happen, since they won't have a large amount of them to begin with) and not having BGs in the beginning. The rest? I have never played on the pirate realms, so I cannot say how that would differ from the Vanilla that I experienced. Ie, "modern" vanilla vs actual Vanilla.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    I have no idea of what you are speaking; I have not played on pirate realms.
    As of the other things? I would be okay with the population cap (will probably happen, since they won't have a large amount of them to begin with) and not having BGs in the beginning. The rest? I have never played on the pirate realms, so I cannot say how that would differ from the Vanilla that I experienced. Ie, "modern" vanilla vs actual Vanilla.
    Well, to sum it up: leveling on a fresh server with absolutely no dynamic respawn feature (doesn't matter if it's a 3000 or 10 000 cap server at the beginning) is an absolute nightmare. That's something that anyone who experienced it could tell you ;-).

    nb: I'm not even touching private servers anymore since the classic wow announcement, but let's not spit on all of them. Without nostalrius, we would still be asking for classic realms.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    Well, to sum it up: leveling on a fresh server with absolutely no dynamic respawn feature (doesn't matter if it's a 3000 or 10 000 cap server at the beginning) is an absolute nightmare. That's something that anyone who experienced it could tell you ;-).

    nb: I'm not even touching private servers anymore since the classic wow announcement, but let's not spit on all of them. Without nostalrius, we would still be asking for classic realms.
    I see. I am sure that mob camping or mob watching is something that Blizzard are keeping an eye on; especially given how awful the starting zones were at launch (I played US realms on launch because not availible on EU, and even though I missed 2-3 weeks due to shipping it was still a nightmare). There were no mobs alive.

    To clarify: I am personally not spitting on any pirate realm, they are just something I simply do not do. So I have absolutely no reference point. And thus I will not claim to know anything about how they are doing it in "modern" vanilla (or even how "vanilla" it is; the only thing I have seen are in-game-rewards by voting about their realm in some voting thing, which is why I never started with a pirate realm to begin with - especially since I heard it wasn't uncommon)

  5. #5
    Not only should people be OK with these, but also, in my opinion, people should ask Blizz to implement them, especially raid retuning and no BGs at launch.
    Last edited by Mushkins; 2018-01-13 at 06:09 PM.

  6. #6
    When the Classic Realms will have the double amount of players online, then they possibly have to fix the respawn rate for things like Ores or Herbs.

  7. #7
    I'm fine with some PVE tuning, i'm not ok with ''massive PVE retuning''.

    I would like to see some options. As long as Blizzard clearly marks the maximum players on the realm, i'm fine with 2500, 5000 and 7-8k realms. If the demand is significant, maybe open a single 10-12k realm.

    The thrill of world pvp is best experienced when it's not for the explicit purpose of gathering honor. What happens out in the world when BGs are available, is some random pvp and pvp for specific objectives. pvp for mobs, mining, herbalism, black lotus and killing other guilds. When world pvp becomes the only way to gather honor, you get ganking squads roaming from zone to zone killing everyone, and you get allot of flight master camping. Launching without BGs is fine, but then you also have to launch without the honor system as the period between Honor and BG was only 1 month.

    Dynamic mob respawn is not a private server invention. Blizzard did have a system which regulated mob spawn depending on how many players were in a particular zone. However, if they do add servers with significantly higher populations. I would like them to adjust rare spawns based on the amount of players in the world.
    Patch 1.12, and not one step further!

  8. #8
    If anything, I only care about the PVE retuning feature: the original experience was MUCH harder in BWL. Vael, for example, was a complete guild breaker, and he's a fuckin joke on private servers. They'll have to buff the fuck out of these encounters.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siffredi View Post
    When the Classic Realms will have the double amount of players online, then they possibly have to fix the respawn rate for things like Ores or Herbs.
    So, never?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    -The implementation of authenticators, and the integration of the classic wow game into the Blizzard app (I doubt anyone really cares about that but well)
    People won't have a choice on this.
    Sometimes updated...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mushkins View Post
    Not only should people be OK with these, but also, in my opinion, people should ask Blizz to implement them, especially raid retuning and no BGs at launch.
    I'll have to admit that those are THE two features that I think are the most important for classic wow. In fact, the same logic could be applied to TBC and WOTLK: late patches are always super bad for early raid content.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    Hi there guys, I know a lot of us are passionate about this, but I've been reading threads left and right for more than 2 months now, and I believe that most people are OK with these reasonable (and often necessary) alterations.

    Here they are, do tell me what you think about those though (after all I might be wrong when I'm saying that the majority of the playerbase is ok with that, it's just my impression) :

    -PVE retuning: if you take into account the 1.12 talent trees and class changes, the itemization, the new addons that appeared the last 2 years, the fact that raids were changed and nerfed tons of times, and the fact that people's knowledge and skills are actually completely different nowadays, then you KNOW that a massive PVE retuning is in order, especially for early raids like MC and BWL, but it's the same idea for aq40 and naxxramas: coming from someone who raided on anathema (elysium).

    -Population cap: in the old days, the cap was around 2500. But nowadays, most people enjoy a 4000-6000 population cap. The nostalrius-like 13 000 cap is complete madness in my honest opinion, but I do believe that most people want something between 4000 and 6000.

    -No BGs at the launch of classic wow: this is actually not a change, it's simply something how things were early on. Launching the battlegrounds right at launch is probably not the best thing to do.

    -The implementation of authenticators, and the integration of the classic wow game into the Blizzard app (I doubt anyone really cares about that but well)

    -The removal of the old gamebreaking bugs, glitches and exploits.

    -dynamic mob respawn (like on Nostalrius): yeah, you guys know what I'm talking about. Having a world that's alive feels great, but it's even better when you don't have to wait an hour to kill a mob because you're competing because all the other players.

    -I'm not 100% sure about this one : having the option to chose between modern graphics and old: it's not something that would change the gameplay, or anything, but it is an important feature.

    Those are the ones I could think of so far, but do tell me if there are others.
    1. retuning it sounds good in theory, but in practice it'd just be an arbitrary mess
    2. pop cap, yeah sure nobody wants 15k people on their servers
    3. why? battlegrounds were one of the best part of vanilla
    4. ofc it should be bound to Bnet, thats not even a question
    5. which bugs? for example i very much WANT walljumping to be a thing
    6. wasnt mob spawn dynamic already later in vanilla? of not then yeah sure.
    7. choice between new and old graphics is also fine.

    generally I'm fine with anything that doesnt directly affect gameplay.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    1. retuning it sounds good in theory, but in practice it'd just be an arbitrary mess
    2. pop cap, yeah sure nobody wants 15k people on their servers
    3. why? battlegrounds were one of the best part of vanilla
    4. ofc it should be bound to Bnet, thats not even a question
    5. which bugs? for example i very much WANT walljumping to be a thing
    6. wasnt mob spawn dynamic already later in vanilla? of not then yeah sure.
    7. choice between new and old graphics is also fine.

    generally I'm fine with anything that doesnt directly affect gameplay.
    Just curious, why do you think retuning would make raids a mess?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    Just curious, why do you think retuning would make raids a mess?
    because what do you adjust around?

    just the patches? if so what patch, and from which version of the instance (since it was actively changed even during vanilla)
    if not just patches then what? the drastic improvement of player skill? well okay how do you measure that?
    if not then what? that information is much more accessible so people will tune their characters more accurately for raids?

    also, what would you change? just numbers? because that wont really stop anyone unless they delibaretly overtune it and really who wants that? or mechanics, because that's a big nono.

    I feel like tempering with it will hurt the experience more than it helps

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    -PVE retuning: if you take into account the 1.12 talent trees and class changes, the itemization, the new addons that appeared the last 2 years, the fact that raids were changed and nerfed tons of times, and the fact that people's knowledge and skills are actually completely different nowadays, then you KNOW that a massive PVE retuning is in order, especially for early raids like MC and BWL, but it's the same idea for aq40 and naxxramas: coming from someone who raided on anathema (elysium).
    I disagree.

    There is a large percentage of classic players who are completely against retuning of any kind, whatsoever. There is a pervasive notion that current players will simply waltz in and roflstomp every raid, but I think that's unlikely. Itemization was much worse so you couldn't stack your best stat add infinitum, and class abilities were nowhere near as extensive as they are now. Building a raid, particularly of 40 people, will equally be a challenge in itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    -Population cap: in the old days, the cap was around 2500. But nowadays, most people enjoy a 4000-6000 population cap. The nostalrius-like 13 000 cap is complete madness in my honest opinion, but I do believe that most people want something between 4000 and 6000.
    I agree.

    I think a raising of the cap is in line with expectation, but I'm not sure there'll just be one realm. It wouldn't shock me to see multiple connected servers for classic.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    -No BGs at the launch of classic wow: this is actually not a change, it's simply something how things were early on. Launching the battlegrounds right at launch is probably not the best thing to do.
    I'm not sure I agree.

    Why are launch battlegrounds a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    -The implementation of authenticators, and the integration of the classic wow game into the Blizzard app (I doubt anyone really cares about that but well)
    I agree.

    I'd go as far as saying that it's nigh on a certainty this will happen. I expect full Battle.net implementation, actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    -The removal of the old gamebreaking bugs, glitches and exploits.
    I agree.

    There's an odd minority that are arguing against fixing bugs, but other than "thatz da wai it woz!!!11!!1!1!!", there's no coherent reasoning for wanting bugs in your game. I expect they'll be squashed.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    -dynamic mob respawn (like on Nostalrius): yeah, you guys know what I'm talking about. Having a world that's alive feels great, but it's even better when you don't have to wait an hour to kill a mob because you're competing because all the other players.
    I disagree.

    I think it all depends on the server architecture they go for. Dynamic respawn could be rendered unnecessary as a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    -I'm not 100% sure about this one : having the option to chose between modern graphics and old: it's not something that would change the gameplay, or anything, but it is an important feature.
    I'm not sure I agree.

    I think one-size-fits-all, but I'm not sure who'd complain if the old game got a fresh coat of paint - and under what reasoning. Remember: we're talking about the classic experience here, and not necessarily classic World of Warcraft.

    But all in all, if I were a betting man...

    I expect to see 1.12 when it comes to class design, tuning and production quality, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a content release schedule that's more in line with how the real game did its releases. It would be a strange thing to do, given that those who weren't there at the start wouldn't experience it (and I assume Blizzard hopes for some longevity), but I think that's the route they'll go. I also think they might consider some modern UI fixes in order to make certain things a bit less painful but, then again, most changes of that type are a slippery slope.

    When push comes to shove, they may not be willing to risk it.

    The key is how long they think it'll take to get the servers ready. It takes very little time for a studio like Blizzard to get the old game onto modern server architecture, so a six-month to a year release schedule suggests that's all they're going for, including Battle.net integration. If we're closer to the two-year mark, we can pretty much be sure that far more extensive work is being done... Potentially with regard to art assets.

    I wish they'd hint at the release schedule, but they won't. Not until they're absolutely sure they can deliver it.
    'This community deserves an apology'.
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  15. #15
    Modern graphics is a no-no for me though.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    So, never?
    Double amount of people -> decrease respawn timer by 50%.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Arckos View Post
    Modern graphics is a no-no for me though.
    2004 graphics is a no-no for me
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Klling a new born is not much morally different than a late term abortion. Should be avoided, but it's not like it is an actual person yet.

  18. #18
    The authenticators and bugfixes to address exploits I expect on or near launch. I'm not sure if they'll launch BGs right off the bat. That might be something they put up to a vote.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    The authenticators and bugfixes to address exploits I expect on or near launch. I'm not sure if they'll launch BGs right off the bat. That might be something they put up to a vote.
    It's fun to only wpvp during the leveling process: tons of massive, organized world pvp events will happen if they let bgs closed for a few months (there were no bgs at launch in vanilla)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bluestalya View Post
    It's fun to only wpvp during the leveling process: tons of massive, organized world pvp events will happen if they let bgs closed for a few months (there were no bgs at launch in vanilla)
    And if they don't implement the penalty for killing NPCs in the beginning.

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