Buff Soul Reaper and Clawing Shadows? Why not!

[Kaver]

Can someone help me with understanding why Blizzard are not tuning the different specs of the game more often?

To me it seem very logical to buff Soul Reaper and Clawing Shadows a little bit for Unholy Death Knights, to have an alternative gameplay to Dark Arbiter. But Blizzard are not doing this. Am I completely wrong when I'm saying it's a matter of a small hotfix? Just Increase the damage and buff time a bit. I'm not sure if I'm completely underestimating the work it takes to change the numbers of a talent, because I'm not talking about a complete redesign of the talents, just a small tweak of the numbers.

If anybody have a good explanation of why Blizzard are ignoring all the broken talents of the game, please tell me? Does it demand more work to change than I think?

[Deleted]

Can someone help me with understanding why Blizzard are not tuning the different specs of the game more often?

To me it seem very logical to buff Soul Reaper and Clawing Shadows a little bit for Unholy Death Knights, to have an alternative gameplay to Dark Arbiter. But Blizzard are not doing this. Am I completely wrong when I'm saying it's a matter of a small hotfix? Just Increase the damage and buff time a bit. I'm not sure if I'm completely underestimating the work it takes to change the numbers of a talent, because I'm not talking about a complete redesign of the talents, just a small tweak of the numbers.

If anybody have a good explanation of why Blizzard are ignoring all the broken talents of the game, please tell me? Does it demand more work to change than I think?

I think they almost all have their places. I'm hardly cutting edge at the moment, but we have options for content from mythic raiding single target, mythic + constant aoe (cold heart and max ednd stacks can be fun) to low end content running around like a loon outbreaking and epidemicing.

Unholy is far from perfect but even Sr and cs are decent enough

[Kaver]

I think they almost all have their places. I'm hardly cutting edge at the moment, but we have options for content from mythic raiding single target, mythic + constant aoe (cold heart and max ednd stacks can be fun) to low end content running around like a loon outbreaking and epidemicing.

Unholy is far from perfect but even Sr and cs are decent enough

I agree. But I would still like to see Clawing Shadows and Soul Reaper be just a little bit viable for single target bosses. Maybe not just as good as Dark Arbiter but closer to it than now.

I've just killed the Mythic Felhounds of Sargeras a hour ago and I started the pulls with Soul Reaper and Clawing Shadow for the first couple of pulls, but I quickly switched to Frost because Unholy is just not viable for mythic bosses unless you use Dark Arbiter.

[Ashaeron]

I agree. But I would still like to see Clawing Shadows and Soul Reaper be just a little bit viable for single target bosses. Maybe not just as good as Dark Arbiter but closer to it than now.

I've just killed the Mythic Felhounds of Sargeras a hour ago and I started the pulls with Soul Reaper and Clawing Shadow for the first couple of pulls, but I quickly switched to Frost because Unholy is just not viable for mythic bosses unless you use Dark Arbiter.

And arbiter wasnt viable for the first half of thet xpack. Its MMO ebb and flow, the balancing is fine. At least we have a viable build for each spec.

[Piz813]

Can someone help me with understanding why Blizzard are not tuning the different specs of the game more often?

To me it seem very logical to buff Soul Reaper and Clawing Shadows a little bit for Unholy Death Knights, to have an alternative gameplay to Dark Arbiter. But Blizzard are not doing this. Am I completely wrong when I'm saying it's a matter of a small hotfix? Just Increase the damage and buff time a bit. I'm not sure if I'm completely underestimating the work it takes to change the numbers of a talent, because I'm not talking about a complete redesign of the talents, just a small tweak of the numbers.

If anybody have a good explanation of why Blizzard are ignoring all the broken talents of the game, please tell me? Does it demand more work to change than I think?

I got this one fellas
:clears throat:

Go to any blizzard warcraft related site. It's 100% ALL BATTLE FOR AZEROTH. Nothing about legion anywhere. They been done with this xpac since November. I wouldn't expect to see any real changes for any class ,outside of needed ones like boomkins , until BfA is out.

What you see is what you got today for DKs. Plus 99% are frost now. The few guys holding on to ToS tier will give in eventually...

[Deleted]

I got this one fellas
:clears throat:

Go to any blizzard warcraft related site. It's 100% ALL BATTLE FOR AZEROTH. Nothing about legion anywhere. They been done with this xpac since November. I wouldn't expect to see any real changes for any class ,outside of needed ones like boomkins , until BfA is out.

What you see is what you got today for DKs. Plus 99% are frost now. The few guys holding on to ToS tier will give in eventually...

They can take my t20 from my cold dead hands.


Ah wait, I am already dead and have cold hands...

[Piz813]

They can take my t20 from my cold dead hands.


Ah wait, I am already dead and have cold hands...

lololololol
10 char

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guys were kicking ass first 3 weeks of ABT as UH but that ilevel is creeping up and overtaking that amazing 15% damage after zombie summons and that 5-6 min Army of the dead. I still pug ToS Heroic for that 0.001% chance of a 945-950 Tier piece... and Hajatarjaratarar frost relic 950!

[Deleted]

lololololol
10 char

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guys were kicking ass first 3 weeks of ABT as UH but that ilevel is creeping up and overtaking that amazing 15% damage after zombie summons and that 5-6 min Army of the dead. I still pug ToS Heroic for that 0.001% chance of a 945-950 Tier piece... and Hajatarjaratarar frost relic 950!

I swear my army is down to about 3min cd.

But yeah as ilevel go up t20 becomes less and less good

[Kaver]

I got this one fellas
:clears throat:

You can answer questions, without being condescending you know.

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Go to any blizzard warcraft related site. It's 100% ALL BATTLE FOR AZEROTH. Nothing about legion anywhere. They been done with this xpac since November. I wouldn't expect to see any real changes for any class ,outside of needed ones like boomkins , until BfA is out.

What you see is what you got today for DKs. Plus 99% are frost now. The few guys holding on to ToS tier will give in eventually...

But I'm not asking for a new patch, just a small change of some number. I can't imagine how that would take more than a few minutes to do.

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And arbiter wasnt viable for the first half of thet xpack. Its MMO ebb and flow, the balancing is fine. At least we have a viable build for each spec.

Exactly. And I could also ask "Why was Dark Arbiter that bad the first half of the xpack?"

The solution to Dark Arbiter was mainly to change the duration from 15 to 20 seconds. Why does it always take Blizzard many months to change a number? Why is it so time consuming for Blizzard to change a number from 15 to 20?

[Piz813]

You can answer questions, without being condescending you know.

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But I'm not asking for a new patch, just a small change of some number. I can't imagine how that would take more than a few minutes to do.

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Exactly. And I could also ask "Why was Dark Arbiter that bad the first half of the xpack?"



The solution to Dark Arbiter was mainly to change the duration from 15 to 20 seconds. Why does it always take Blizzard many months to change a number? Why is it so time consuming for Blizzard to change a number from 15 to 20?

sarcasm dude. relax. no one is putting anyone down. finger off the trigger.

[Noxina]

And then someone else would make a thread about how DA should be buffed as SR is now stronger, yada yada yada. Are you raiding Mythic? No? Then pick what ever you find the most fun, the few percentages wont affect you or your raid much anyways. Heck, if you're bad at DA I bet SR would even be better for you.

Don't follow every guide blindly, experiment a bit, test shit out and find what you perform best with. And again, if you're only doing HC raids, its honestly not like it matters at all. You're allready playing the sub-spec of the two, so yeah.

Have fun for once.

(*edit* though I know some, me included, find it very fun to push every last tad bit extra dps you possible can out of your character, then there is only one spec option etc.)

[Kaver]

sarcasm dude. relax. no one is putting anyone down. finger off the trigger.

No trigger needed. Just behave and please answer the question without the sarcasme

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And then someone else would make a thread about how DA should be buffed as SR is now stronger, yada yada yada. Are you raiding Mythic? No? Then pick what ever you find the most fun, the few percentages wont affect you or your raid much anyways. Heck, if you're bad at DA I bet SR would even be better for you.

Don't follow every guide blindly, experiment a bit, test shit out and find what you perform best with. And again, if you're only doing HC raids, its honestly not like it matters at all. You're allready playing the sub-spec of the two, so yeah.

Have fun for once.

(*edit* though I know some, me included, find it very fun to push every last tad bit extra dps you possible can out of your character, then there is only one spec option etc.)

Yes, I'm raiding mythic.

You're missing the point completely. I have played with Dark Arbiter for a long time, it's no problem. Did mythic Antorus yesterday and started the raid with Soul Reaper and Clawing Shadow because I think it's a fun playstyle. But I had to switch to Frost because the DPS was not viable. It's not fair to my team for me to play with a spec which is way below what I potential can do. The Soul Reaper spec of Unholy are not doing a few percentages worse... it's doing A LOT worse. The dps difference between my Frost spec and Soul Reaper Unholy is 300 k at least on single target.

But you're missing the point of the thread. Dark Arbiter, Soul Reaper, Clawing Shadows are just examples. I'm asking if anybody knows why it is so difficult for Blizzard to tune talents which are completely broken, because I would think they could do it in like 10 minutes or something. And this question is about to all the talents in the game which are waaaay undertuned. I'm not talking about balancing. I don't care if one spec is a few percentages better or worse than others. I'm talking about talents which are never used because they not viable.


TLDR: I'm talking about completely broken talents (Soul Reaper for example) and not talents which are a few percentage worse than others.

[ymirsson]

TLDR: I'm talking about completely broken talents (Soul Reaper for example) and not talents which are a few percentage worse than others.

Because not all talents are for mythic DPS. And being a company and not some theorycrafting buddies, they simply have lots of procedures making things slow.

[Ashaeron]

They also likely don't want to make a change and find, oh, that fucked everything up because we didn't see this tiny little interaction (like the Death Coil cost increase) which turned out to be really good. Guess every mythic raid runs 6 DKs now because they're over the top for DPS.

This stuff gets done months and months before it's released to the public. Businesses take time to do things that impact their services.

[msdos]

Why does it take so long? My guess is because the artifact and legendaries have created a system of moving parts that have become unexpectedly complex. Used to be all your gains were talents and weapon damage. Now'a days everything is scaling with this and that, proccing off this, double-dipping with mastery, etc, etc.

I still agree that it takes too long to replace the useless talents. The Blood tree is still a complete laughing stock. The only talents you ever change in Blood, is maybe pick up Spectral Deflection and pick up Rune Tap on certain encounters. Otherwise you can chill on Bonestorm and never have to change anything at all nor would you want to change because you'd be gimping yourself. The Blood talents are just so underwhelming, it's hard to believe they're even there.

Also I believe the artifact system clashes directly with talents. The artifact system is a slew of traits that are growing stronger externally and separately from our talents, so the stronger our artifacts got, the weaker everything else in the talent tree got that wasn't directly affected by the artifact (For example, Epidemic started out god-like when the xpac launched, then slowly fell completely off, no reason to ever use it because everything else was supported so much more heavily and at no fault of the user.)

Our talents need to be what the current artifact system is, not the other way around. Make our talent choices linear, but create choice options with gear. This is the best way to go, imo, kind of like how Path of Exile does it.

[Piz813]

And then someone else would make a thread about how DA should be buffed as SR is now stronger, yada yada yada. Are you raiding Mythic? No? Then pick what ever you find the most fun, the few percentages wont affect you or your raid much anyways. Heck, if you're bad at DA I bet SR would even be better for you.

Don't follow every guide blindly, experiment a bit, test shit out and find what you perform best with. And again, if you're only doing HC raids, its honestly not like it matters at all. You're allready playing the sub-spec of the two, so yeah.

Have fun for once.

(*edit* though I know some, me included, find it very fun to push every last tad bit extra dps you possible can out of your character, then there is only one spec option etc.)

I love this response! Hahahaha so true!

[Maxweii]

They also don't have to buff stuff that is only slightly underperforming (under good conditions you can get a few % away from a DA sim). That's comparable and choice. unless it's something like Skulker or Epidemic (on ST), we do have choices on what you could take.

Is it optimal to do so? No. Does that mean you can't? No it does not, you (in general not anyone in particular) chooses to take DA and all the other stuff for it instead.


I mean, hence why CS builds at the start of Legion were vastly unpopular, but still viable with the right gear. Castigator was just the popular choice.

[Cyanotical]

Soul Reaper needs a shorter CD and less pain mechanic, though i'd prefer it to be a sub 40% rotational execute again.

clawing shadows is fine, they can't buff it because its already powerful when using a bunch of multipliers like defile and necrosis (which nobody ever takes) mine crits on average for a million and max crits anywhere from 1.7-2.5 million in raids. a buff at this point would just make it OP.