1. #1
    Deleted

    How does Havoc play these days?

    Hello!

    Due to an almost unhealthy relationship with Overwatch lately I haven't logged onto WoW in the past 12 months or so, last I played was just after they shafted Momentum and made the resource on auto attack the go-to. Personally this killed the DH for me, and I didn't find it enjoyable in the slighest, that is my opinion, not a fact.

    What I do wonder is, if you compare to how DH played during launch/momentum era, how does it play now?

    Cheers,

  2. #2
    Deleted


    T21 is funnny.
    Sometimes you rule. Somtimes you don't.
    Your'e nealy invincible in the open world.
    It's "okish" i think.

  3. #3
    It is not good. Just a bandaid for Blizzard not really knowing what they shoudl have done to DHs in the last tier. It kinda started off as a good idea (going demonic) but bad execution and mechanics (given that our extra DPS via souls is stationary and all the last tier fights are highly mobile). They royalled screwed every player with their stupid RNG and they never fixed Nemesis and how limiting it is.

    It's so bad people dont even complain anymore and the DH discord is just full of memes and how people are going to play the other classes they re-rolled to.
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2018-01-17 at 08:27 PM.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Well yikes, shames me to say it but seems I jumped ship when I had the chance.

    Proper wish they'd given DH a third spec in BfA, have Havoc be full on mobility weeab, vengeance as tank and give them a demonic influenced ranged spec or even melee/ranged hybrid to not step on wlock toes too much.

    I did take the opportunity to watch some videos and the gameplay doesn't seem appealing at all to me, feels like through legion DH had a bit of an identity crisis.

  5. #5
    People complain way too much. Some praise momentum spec, but is had incredibly huge flaws even though the idea was interesting. Some praise felblade spec, which was nice, but in reality not much more engaging then Demonic. With good gear out rotation narrows down to pressing Chaos Strike as fast as you can regardless of the build anyway.

    Right now there's a notable amount of RNG, especially on short fights, but the class still does very good damage, mobility and survivability. Plus you use basically the same build on single target and cleave, which is very convenient.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitinariy View Post
    People complain way too much. Some praise momentum spec, but is had incredibly huge flaws even though the idea was interesting. Some praise felblade spec, which was nice, but in reality not much more engaging then Demonic. With good gear out rotation narrows down to pressing Chaos Strike as fast as you can regardless of the build anyway.

    Right now there's a notable amount of RNG, especially on short fights, but the class still does very good damage, mobility and survivability. Plus you use basically the same build on single target and cleave, which is very convenient.
    This is typical heroic raider speak and to that end they would be right. Current T21 Demonic specced DHs are awesome in heroic ABT right now. Come Mythic it is an entirely different story. The RNG hurts too much as does the static nature of souls vs highly mobile fights and nemesis target switch tax vs... mult. target switching required. And dont take my word for it..See for yourself.. it is the least performing class right now for the 2nd tier in a row. Not by a huge margin but still noticeable to be bottom as it has been yet again. This will increase over time as people gear. All other classes below havoc have an alternate spec they can take advantage of which is better than havoc,

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2018-01-19 at 12:42 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarre View Post
    All other classes below havoc have an alternate spec they can take advantage of which is better than havoc,
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17
    All hunters are below Havoc. Or do you somehow consider Survival an alternative spec with these 700 parces?
    Also - yes - I do play only heroic, but you should remember that majority of the people don't really raid mythic at least not consistently. And this game in general caters mostly to masses, because quantity brings money.

    In addition, Nemesis is irrelevant to the discussion of how the class plays now, because it's not an issue of T21 - it's an issue of the class in general, since the very beginning of the content.

    Does the class have issues? Yes, and I'm not denying that. Is it unplayable - by all means no, so all this talk of jumping the ship is nothing but QQ. Besides - currently it's super easy to re-roll to any of the top classes if your sole purpose is to top the logs.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitinariy View Post
    All hunters are below Havoc. Or do you somehow consider Survival an alternative spec with these 700 parces?
    Also - yes - I do play only heroic, but you should remember that majority of the people don't really raid mythic at least not consistently. And this game in general caters mostly to masses, because quantity brings money.

    In addition, Nemesis is irrelevant to the discussion of how the class plays now, because it's not an issue of T21 - it's an issue of the class in general, since the very beginning of the content.

    Does the class have issues? Yes, and I'm not denying that. Is it unplayable - by all means no, so all this talk of jumping the ship is nothing but QQ. Besides - currently it's super easy to re-roll to any of the top classes if your sole purpose is to top the logs.

    Looks like you didn't read the chart very well.


    Just because you don't raid Mythic, don't appreciate it nor think enough people play isn't an excuse for Havocs bad design in there. Blizzard doesn't cater to just LFR / heroic players . Otherwise Mythic wouldn't exist. Seriously it is a stupid argument and I'm tired of hearing it. Even IF it was only 5% of the playerbase, thats a lot of people playing on mythic difficulty. Mythic matters and class balance in Mythic matters just as much as it does in heroic. It is pretty amazing that you would think it does not. Half the discussions and pretty much the majority of what is said anywhere about havoc wouldn't exist had it not been for mythic raid oriented players.

    No one said DH was unplayable at all here at all. But due to the many issues and concerns of Mythic raiders, these players have ALREADY jumped ship because DH just isnt' as viable or desired in the mythic realm. It isn't about being top of the logs or anything.. its about playing a class you love in the difficulty you want to play in and having the flexibility to go anywhere with your class just as much as any other class. Yes its possible if you still want to do it but its not going to be always easy.


    Nemesis is totally viable to this discussion and how DH performs, if you dont think so.. We just have nothing to talk about. And seriously since you made your post about being a heroic player who only cares about heroic and how you are totally fine there.. we just dont have anything to discuss with one another. You are the same as if someone dropped in and said "oh everything is perfectly fine in LFR and the vast majority of players play in LFR so DHs are fine." LMAO.

    Good luck and good bye.
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2018-01-21 at 10:56 PM.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Until further changes on gameplay variery im not returning to wow with my dh ^^

  10. #10
    Most fun spec in the game.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Hashcrypt View Post
    Most fun spec in the game.
    Are you talking about havoc?

  12. #12
    I'm not really enjoying the randomness of the spec. Maybe it would feel better with the proper legendaries but I'm definitely getting burned out. More and more I'm getting pissed how Blizzard copped out on giving us a third spec for some more variety.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiase View Post
    Demon blades is dead / not used in raids anymore. Blizzard is pushing the demonic build.
    Heck, during the blizzcon ptr the changes they made to demonic is that it increases primary dmg to the main target by 100%, if this stays I can see demonic still being a strong build even in BfA.

    Perhaps it's because I'm not 100% comfortable with the tactics in antorus yet, but i feel like it's more momentum unfriendly than EN.

    EDIT:
    But even if they aren't doing super great or whatever, DH has still joined other classes for me thanks to their ridicules mobility and the, hmmm "perks" their demon wings have brought like gliding places or jumping over stuff to get there faster.
    In Alpha Demonic feels all but dead since there is no current way to get an eyebeam reset, if they add it through the new talents you get then there is a possibility. So as it stands now, it ends up being a 32 seconds out of every 2 mins DPS buff that is a small bump to CS damage and 25% haste buff, where as momo gets you a 15% damage increase with a 65-75% uptime depending on haste and skill and Nem will net you a 25% damage buff for with 50% up time. It is just not that good in Alpha.

    As for momentum in the Antorus, it is dead, and has been rotting since mid nighthold. In Antorus, especially in mythic the positioning and mechanics required all but stop you from being able to felrush around to keep uptime. Also sacrificing your mobility for damage is not a trade off I am comfortable or happy about.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaelexi View Post
    In Alpha Demonic feels all but dead since there is no current way to get an eyebeam reset, if they add it through the new talents you get then there is a possibility. So as it stands now, it ends up being a 32 seconds out of every 2 mins DPS buff that is a small bump to CS damage and 25% haste buff, where as momo gets you a 15% damage increase with a 65-75% uptime depending on haste and skill and Nem will net you a 25% damage buff for with 50% up time. It is just not that good in Alpha.

    As for momentum in the Antorus, it is dead, and has been rotting since mid nighthold. In Antorus, especially in mythic the positioning and mechanics required all but stop you from being able to felrush around to keep uptime. Also sacrificing your mobility for damage is not a trade off I am comfortable or happy about.
    I'd say about 95% of the playerbase that has a DH alt in LFR would not understand or agree in the slightest. Which is why I wish they would include more mythic DH mains who opted into Beta into Beta so they can give more meaningful feedback to devs. "LFR" also includes normal and heroic too they are LFR also for practical purposes here. I think the devs understand the limitations momentum has somewhat... just worried they might forget in the sea of feedback from lfr heroes who don't really have a grasp on DH beyond easy modes and questing.
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2018-03-30 at 05:00 AM.

  15. #15
    If you have a steam controller, take some time to set it up with WoW.

    DH with the Steam Controller is the way it was meant to be played, I think.

  16. #16
    in my opinion it was better before when it came out

  17. #17
    I love havoc as it is. Played Havoc since launch. Semi like the start, pretty fucking boring during NH, really fun now.

    Then again, I don't raid mythic, only casually raid heroic, where they shine.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zennen View Post
    I love havoc as it is. Played Havoc since launch. Semi like the start, pretty fucking boring during NH, really fun now.

    Then again, I don't raid mythic, only casually raid heroic, where they shine.
    Yea mythic tuning a DH seems to be quite complicated for Blizzard. Seems like they are on track (slowly) to make it more consistent.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by GamerDH View Post
    Yea mythic tuning a DH seems to be quite complicated for Blizzard. Seems like they are on track (slowly) to make it more consistent.
    Me and my DH fellow were top 5 DPS during all of Antorus Mythic, so i'd say tuning was just fine? Demonic sucks though, i will never like it

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Menax View Post
    Me and my DH fellow were top 5 DPS during all of Antorus Mythic, so i'd say tuning was just fine? Demonic sucks though, i will never like it
    The top melee classes in Antorus overall are Monk (god class), rogue, enhancement shaman, fury warrior and DK. Thats how it shows all over warcraft logs as well. DH was the least among them. So no tuning wasn't just fine. Thats not to say DH can't do well it just wasn't as good as those other classes.

    I really like Demonic it just had way too much RNG.
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2018-05-17 at 03:53 PM.

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