Did You Give Up Yet? (alt)

[Riistov]

It's cool. Most people are blowing this out of proportion and acting like it's the end of days.

I'd love to see these people spend 5 minutes in a game like FF11 or Everquest when they were current. WoW ain't got nothing on them when it comes to grindy and tedious leveling.

OH I know....EQ was crazy.

[Maudib]

Next you'll add in "training spells" and "buying reagents"

Question, don't you craft bandages? Don't you craft buff food through cooking? el oh el.

Hey, hadn;t even thought of those... yes the cost of spells was a huge expense... often you could not afford to just buy them all.

And no... First Aid and Cooking are not craftsmen professions...

I do appreciate your help though... in your zest to discredit... you actually make my point as to how Classic was not just endgame.. but the WHOLE game.


KUDOS!

[Levyan]

Skyrim is a 6 years old game that still manages to provide good RPG experience. You can't say that about WOW leveling.

WoW excels at completely different things such as raiding, nowadays also dungeons. You should not bring out a rotten corpse out of a coffin and try to dress it up as something it isn't.

At least newer questing content has some more appeal to it. In 2016 Blizzard learned of something called voiceovers during quests.

But Wow isn't a single player RPG like the other guy compared against. The "shit" argument is bogus though. Wow isn't an RPG, it's an MMORPG, which is a separate sub-genre.

I don't think Blizzard is targeting current players at all with the change. I seem to remember a common problem for Blizzard is new and returning players, who I have heard several say they felt the leveling experience was lame and often quit before cap. Maybe blizzard has better stats than my anecdotal evidence that sup port that.

The 2 options seem to be to "dress up the corpse" like all the other mmos or to scrap levelling entirely, which the game just isn't designed for.

[Lahiri]

I just resubbed after not playing retail properly in a long time - I last played at max level in MoP and only casual battlegrounds. My last time raiding was cata. Every time I've tried to play again I've just stopped more or less straight away cause it was so ridiculous. I'd done half of 90-100 when I messed about previously last year and I just completed the rest now. I only needed to complete Shadowmoon + Gorgond to hit 100 (1/2 before the changes, basically ever rare/treasure + bonus objective)

Currently working through the zones as I'll want to unlock flying but then my plan is actually to purchase legion and keep going. It actually feels like I'm playing a game again now rather than a game with cheat codes in use?!? Mobs have enough health I actually had to learn my abilities and try to improve my use of them rather than just pressing any key and watching things die. I've actually died a couple of times, some of the WoD mobs do decent damage as well as having high hp. Rares/Elites are challenging - some I haven't been able to kill alone which is as it should be. For the first time I can remember in ages on retail I actually grouped with another player in the world to do one of the garrisons world quests - he actually died at one point and I came very close. It's much better!!

To be objective it's far from perfect. A flat HP buff to everything has caused it to be pretty inconsistent. At times it's felt like people have described here, no risk of death but zzzz while it takes ages to kill a mob. At other times I actually had to be careful not to pull more than two mobs. The world also still feels really dead in terms of meeting other players, but I suppose WoD is going to be one of the least populated areas.

The thing is I completely get the other side of this for people who are endgame players and have previously done all the content multiple times. However the experience for new or returning players has been abysmal for a long, long time and that isn't good for the overall health of the game. Something needed to change.

I think retail WoW has just got itself into a really awkward place now. It's invalidated the majority of it's content for so long how can they properly fix it? Should they fix it when so many of their current players just wanna do what they know of as endgame? However if you allow progressed players to completely skip everything on alts then there's such a lack of people for newer or returning players to play along side..

The key would be making levelling feel relevant to those long term players. If a 5 man deadlines had similar difficulty and mechanical complexity to current legion endgame then maybe they would consider it actual content they enjoyed playing again. If the whole game progressed in this way then starting a new character would be an insane amount of content you actually wanted to do, rather than stuff you just wanted out of the way? Each dungeon/area as you go would also mean you are doing far less repetition than farming the same couple of raids at current endgame over and over again. Obviously this system would need a way to deal with new players + WoW is far too gone for this to be possible now. It would have been a better design plan overall, though.

[nnelson54]

[Citation Needed]

Marked as Bullshit until investigation.

My favorite thing about that stupid ass conspiracy theory is that Blizzard added rewards specifically for people who manually level from 1-110 with the new races.

[Omega10]

I just resubbed after not playing retail properly in a long time - I last played at max level in MoP and only casual battlegrounds. My last time raiding was cata. Every time I've tried to play again I've just stopped more or less straight away cause it was so ridiculous. I'd done half of 90-100 when I messed about previously last year and I just completed the rest now. I only needed to complete Shadowmoon + Gorgond to hit 100 (1/2 before the changes, basically ever rare/treasure + bonus objective)

Currently working through the zones as I'll want to unlock flying but then my plan is actually to purchase legion and keep going. It actually feels like I'm playing a game again now rather than a game with cheat codes in use?!? Mobs have enough health I actually had to learn my abilities and try to improve my use of them rather than just pressing any key and watching things die. I've actually died a couple of times, some of the WoD mobs do decent damage as well as having high hp. Rares/Elites are challenging - some I haven't been able to kill alone which is as it should be. For the first time I can remember in ages on retail I actually grouped with another player in the world to do one of the garrisons world quests - he actually died at one point and I came very close. It's much better!!

To be objective it's far from perfect. A flat HP buff to everything has caused it to be pretty inconsistent. At times it's felt like people have described here, no risk of death but zzzz while it takes ages to kill a mob. At other times I actually had to be careful not to pull more than two mobs. The world also still feels really dead in terms of meeting other players, but I suppose WoD is going to be one of the least populated areas.

The thing is I completely get the other side of this for people who are endgame players and have previously done all the content multiple times. However the experience for new or returning players has been abysmal for a long, long time and that isn't good for the overall health of the game. Something needed to change.

I think retail WoW has just got itself into a really awkward place now. It's invalidated the majority of it's content for so long how can they properly fix it? Should they fix it when so many of their current players just wanna do what they know of as endgame? However if you allow progressed players to completely skip everything on alts then there's such a lack of people for newer or returning players to play along side..

The key would be making levelling feel relevant to those long term players. If a 5 man deadlines had similar difficulty and mechanical complexity to current legion endgame then maybe they would consider it actual content they enjoyed playing again. If the whole game progressed in this way then starting a new character would be an insane amount of content you actually wanted to do, rather than stuff you just wanted out of the way? Each dungeon/area as you go would also mean you are doing far less repetition than farming the same couple of raids at current endgame over and over again. Obviously this system would need a way to deal with new players + WoW is far too gone for this to be possible now. It would have been a better design plan overall, though.

I am hoping that this is the beginning of a series of modifications to the leveling process. Increasing mob damage, and adding in extra mechanics - just a few at lower levels, more at higher levels, and not on all of the mobs or even most of the mobs - would give this game an added kick. And then there is the problem of checking out each area that might have number problems - drops that are overpowered, or too useless, or mobs that don't just fit. This does not sound like an easy peazy thing to get to, but I am hoping that it happens over time.

[Raziella]

You just have to know yourserf better. Do you really need that alt?

Blizz apparently thinks we do. Or at least is aware that we want them. Or why do this change at all? The question is, why make it take longer to do so?
I don't see this improving the leveling experience for new or returning players, because it's still disjointed, especially with the talent system, and it's not "harder" because very little can even damage you still. It's just longer.

Why not give people the option if they wanted scaling or not? Seems like a really obvious solution to make everyone happy.

Unless this is to increase their "hours played" metric artificially, when people start leveling up those allied races. Which is starting to seem less like a conspiracy theory.

[fishoa]

Waiting on rested XP and then logging off after I run through it with quests is all I'm doing at the moment.

After my sub runs out, which is in two weeks, I'm done.

[InfernalDark]

After my sub runs out, which is in two weeks, I'm done.

Bye! Nobody will miss ya anyway.

[fishoa]

Bye! Nobody will miss ya anyway.

Yet you still replied.

[Azerate]

Is anyone able to give an estimate, or some educated comparison as to the speed of leveling between pre 735 and post 735?

I still have lots of catching up to do and mounts to farm from previous expansions so I probably won't be leveling anytime soon, especially now that it takes ages apparently.

[Splenda]

I've played Korean style MMOs. This isn't even close....

[Ichology]

Just hit 90. 1-80 now took roughly the same amount of time as 1-80 on two toons did before through dungeons. After 80 things speed back up, went from 80-85 1/2 in the Jade Forest, finished off 85-90 in Valley and the first part of Kun-Lai. Seems like Draenor will be a similar pace, then 100-110 is untouched so should be max level in a day or two.

... and no, if I could go back, I wouldn't have done it again. The zone scaling changes and health buffs are honestly fine, actually really nice, but xp needs to be boosted 1-80 in questing, and dramatically in dungeons to offset the current time investment per run post patch. Honestly, if the xp was untouched it would have made leveling alts more appealing just to go through the different routes that are now possible.

The most broken thing by far that i've experienced is MOP dungeons. Literally easier to heal (as my offspec) 15+'s on 950~ toons than normal mode MOP dungeons right now. The tuning is insanely broken (maybe they fixed that today, haven't ran one post "re-patch").

[Baine]

Did not try the new leveling experience. All the classes I am interested in (about 4-5) are at 110. I see no point to level up a character for the sake of leveling a new character.

[Deleted]

Blizz apparently thinks we do. Or at least is aware that we want them. Or why do this change at all? The question is, why make it take longer to do so?
I don't see this improving the leveling experience for new or returning players, because it's still disjointed, especially with the talent system, and it's not "harder" because very little can even damage you still. It's just longer.

Why not give people the option if they wanted scaling or not? Seems like a really obvious solution to make everyone happy.

Unless this is to increase their "hours played" metric artificially, when people start leveling up those allied races. Which is starting to seem less like a conspiracy theory.

Option to have scaling or not would disconnect the 2 types of ppl.

Many talk about the xp/hour should be back as it was. I'm neutral in this, because I don't plan to level an other alt any time soon. I'm not even interested in allied races, so I won't create any of them either, because playing on an alt slows down the progression on my main. I also don't have much time to play, so I play only my main 99% of the time.

Making you play their game as long as possible is very real, it's not conspiracy. Back in the days (even nowadays) they manipulated traveling more, we had no teleport pads, whistle, 2 hearthstones with shorter cd, got riding skill on higher level etc.
Now it's the multiple difficulties, replaying content, collections, timegates and the more convenient/appealing, but longer leveling experience.

- - - Updated - - -

I see no point to level up a character for the sake of leveling a new character.

I share this opinion.

[schwank05]

It's called invasions, you should try them.

If so cool, they didnt have those when I was leveling my characters.

[Pigglix]

Didnt gave up, having tons of fun tbh, now i can lvl where i want do what dungeons i want without being affraid of out lvling a zone or a dungeon and making them "disappear" from the lfg tool and missing a class quest or w/e.

And dungeons, omg, being able to cast a spell, to feel useful and not being trained by those melee wagon or ppl with heirloom, then having to deal with the fuckers saying, "omg, kick her, she does 0 dmg, wtf lol".

More and more i can see why Blizzard did the change. Imagine a new player having to deal with those kind of bullshit. "I should have rolled a melee cuz as a caster i can barely do anything here, i guess i picked the wrong class..."

And ppl bitch that was a wrong decision by blizzard...yeah...right.