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  1. #21
    Global warming was just a Chinese hoax to sell us mountains of useless solar panels! Who needs that junk when we've got the biggest coal deposits in the world!

  2. #22
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    Global warming was just a Chinese hoax to sell us mountains of useless solar panels! Who needs that junk when we've got the biggest coal deposits in the world!
    Excuse me while I go and clear my sinuses loudly into a megaphone.
    = Masc4Mask =

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    how about being competitive, rather than imposing artificial tariff.
    The implication here is that China is a free market of any sort. It's not, and its abuses of the trade system need to stop. I'm glad this administration has the balls to confront it.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitten View Post
    You are looking at the wrong way, it is obvious that protectionist policies cost consumers, that is not the point, the point is to boost a specific industry and increase its market share. I don't think this tariffs can achieve that tho.
    Short term for sure. Hopefully, in this particular case, in the long term it is a good investment for the future of the domestic photovoltaic cell industry.

    Cheers

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Allybeboba View Post
    Short term for sure. Hopefully, in this particular case, in the long term it is a good investment for the future of the domestic photovoltaic cell industry.

    Cheers
    It's not going to work. For two reasons:

    a) There are no subsidies accompanying the tariffs and/or government policy generating demand for them.

    b) China has a shit load of people. They can just throw people to solve its problems and outdo the US by sheer force of numbers.

    The US should focus on protecting the current industries it has a leading advantage on. You cannot outdo China by being China, you have to play smarter.

  6. #26
    Maybe this has to do with under Trump the US-China trade deficit hit an all time high in 2017.

    It's weird he chooses to go after solar, but I guess anything to piss off liberals I guess. If you're a company that uses imported Chinese steel or aluminum you have to breathing a short term sigh of relief he hasn't increased your input costs by 30% just yet. So that's a win?

    With the US dollar losing over 10% of it's value under Trump's first year and now Trump wanting to put tariffs on imports doesn't that scream massive inflation? I dunno, it's been so long since I've taken an economics course, but paying more and getting less seems like a bad way to run a countries economy.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitten View Post
    The implication here is that China is a free market of any sort. It's not, and its abuses of the trade system need to stop. I'm glad this administration has the balls to confront it.
    Let's not kid ourselves this has nothing to do with confronting China but everything to do with giving the appearance of bring back coal and fossil fuels. This is not going to hurt China we've done a pretty darn good job screwing our standing on green energy by getting out of the Paris accord.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Excuse me while I go and clear my sinuses loudly into a megaphone.
    I think I found my favorite quote of the month! Thanks! ^_^

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitten View Post
    It's not going to work. For two reasons:

    a) There are no subsidies accompanying the tariffs and/or government policy generating demand for them.

    b) China has a shit load of people. They can just throw people to solve its problems and outdo the US by sheer force of numbers.

    The US should focus on protecting the current industries it has a leading advantage on. You cannot outdo China by being China, you have to play smarter.
    I am hoping it will spur R&D in the photovoltaic cell industry.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Allybeboba; 2018-01-23 at 03:50 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Allybeboba View Post
    I am hoping it will spur R&D in the industry.

    Cheers
    roflmao that's a good joke.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Trump does so much good stuff, why isn't America cheering for they never had a better life than under President Trump?

  12. #32
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allybeboba View Post
    I am hoping it will spur R&D in the industry.

    Cheers
    In what, the coal industry?

    Maybe we should provide subsidies to alchemists, and blacksmiths, and telegraph operators, I'm sure those industries are due for major research upheavals any day now. Why invest in cutting-edge technology that's experiencing a massive global uptake of users every year.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    In what, the coal industry?

    Maybe we should provide subsidies to alchemists, and blacksmiths, and telegraph operators, I'm sure those industries are due for major research upheavals any day now. Why invest in cutting-edge technology that's experiencing a massive global uptake of users every year.
    All of my posts in this thread have been in reference to the photovoltaic cell industry. I shall edit it for you.
    This thread isn’t about coal. Please stay on topic.

    Cheers

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitten View Post
    The implication here is that China is a free market of any sort. It's not, and its abuses of the trade system need to stop. I'm glad this administration has the balls to confront it.
    The implication is that anybody that thinks there is such a thing as a free market in the world is pretty much an idiot out of touch with reality. This is just about increasing the prices in America. The biggest country in the world. its kinda like when Beoing whine about other airplane builders getting government money across the globe, while the american government injects billions into it lol.

  15. #35
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allybeboba View Post
    All of my posts in this thread have been in reference to the photovoltaic cell industry. I shall edit it for you.
    This thread isn’t about coal. Please stay on topic.

    Cheers
    Then the issue is your point makes no sense. Imposing tariffs won't drive R&D, because it doesn't provide any revenue to fund that R&D.

    That's why I assumed you had to be talking about the subsidization of the coal industry, since that's the only one relevant to this discussion that IS getting such funding.

  16. #36
    The Lightbringer downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitten View Post

    The US should focus on protecting the current industries it has a leading advantage on. You cannot outdo China by being China, you have to play smarter.
    The smart play is to buy cheap solar panels from China and focus investment elsewhere.
    I don't know what word in the language—I can’t find one—that applies to people of that kind, who are willing to sacrifice the literal—the existence of organized human life, not in the distant future, so they can put a few more dollars in highly overstuffed pockets. The word “evil” doesn’t begin to approach it.
    - Noam Chomsky

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Allybeboba View Post
    All of my posts in this thread have been in reference to the photovoltaic cell industry. I shall edit it for you.
    This thread isn’t about coal. Please stay on topic.

    Cheers
    That could work if the intention was to take this tariff money and inject it directly in American solar panel industry as R&D subvention or credits, no such a thing was said or declared.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    The smart play is to buy cheap solar panels from China and focus investment elsewhere.
    That is what the industry was doing and growing buying parts from China cheap and focus on innovation and expertise here which is why solar jobs have kept growing. This tariff will hurt the solar industry and cost thousands of jobs it's not really about helping solar but about helping fossil fuels.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    The implication is that anybody that thinks there is such a thing as a free market in the world is pretty much an idiot out of touch with reality. This is just about increasing the prices in America. The biggest country in the world. its kinda like when Beoing whine about other airplane builders getting government money across the globe, while the american government injects billions into it lol.
    As far as I'm aware Euros only managed to find one case where Boeing and US coperation that broke WTO rules and that is being currently challenged. And while it is technically true that there is no "true free market", most developed nations follow certain principles which seek to make trade between nations more fair and free. China doesn't, which is why its labeled a non-market economy.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Then the issue is your point makes no sense. Imposing tariffs won't drive R&D, because it doesn't provide any revenue to fund that R&D.

    That's why I assumed you had to be talking about the subsidization of the coal industry, since that's the only one relevant to this discussion that IS getting such funding.
    Americans will start purchasing from domestic companies. Those domestic companies in turn will invest in R&D to make better/cheaper photovoltaic cells over the long term.
    As it stands now, China has the upper hand because of their inexpensive manufacturing techniques. I provided a list on the 1st page of the top companies.

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