Beta Key Giveaway Week 2: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #161
    Mechagnome RsinRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Why? Because you got fucking tentacles, your spells whisper to you, and you float like a fucking boss when you enter voidform to become a being of void supersayan, that’s why.
    Meh. We use mindflay more than anything. They could've gotten just a bit more creative with it. Like they did with drain soul. Ours stayed as basic as before with a splash of blue

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by RsinRC View Post
    Meh. We use mindflay more than anything. They could've gotten just a bit more creative with it. Like they did with drain soul. Ours stayed as basic as before with a splash of blue
    Lol
    Drain soul? You mean the vanilla spell we got reverted to when they removed the malefic grasp visuals from cata for no fucking reason? Or the fact affliction has had virtually no graphics on drain soul and all their artifact does is shit out purple balls recycled from the demonhunter souls, unlike your tentacles, sphere if insanity, void torrent visuals. Or maybe your shadowy apparitions and an actual transformation visual.

    Whining about afflictions spell updates is so petty, its the one spec in the game with no visuals whatsoever than a vanilla theme drain soul. Everything else is waving your hands on thin air with no visible effect. Dont even get feedback sounds like mindblast.

  3. #163
    Spectral Guise...

    Thanks.

  4. #164
    Mechagnome RsinRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Lol
    Drain soul? You mean the vanilla spell we got reverted to when they removed the malefic grasp visuals from cata for no fucking reason? Or the fact affliction has had virtually no graphics on drain soul and all their artifact does is shit out purple balls recycled from the demonhunter souls, unlike your tentacles, sphere if insanity, void torrent visuals. Or maybe your shadowy apparitions and an actual transformation visual.

    Whining about afflictions spell updates is so petty, its the one spec in the game with no visuals whatsoever than a vanilla theme drain soul. Everything else is waving your hands on thin air with no visible effect. Dont even get feedback sounds like mindblast.
    Lol bro you got a little too offended. If I am whining it is because mindflay has a shit visual. That's it. Go whine about warlock shit somewhere else.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukario View Post
    Spectral Guise...

    Thanks.
    I second that

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    But you see, all those mastery affect specific abilities which I've explained is not good. On void form stuff, they want to reduce the vf cycle otherwise we are too reliant on it for damage which leads to ramping problems, so none of the vf based mastery you mention is useful.
    They want to reduce the Voidform stuff but not remove it, y'know, that will still be a core part of the spec.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    They want to reduce the Voidform stuff but not remove it, y'know, that will still be a core part of the spec.
    I don't get why you want prolonged voidforms when we are having massive ramping issues right now.

  7. #167
    The issue with ramp up isn't void form, it's the mechanic tied to void form. If they basically made void form a flat damage increase instead of haste stacks, the act of prolonging voidform wouldn't feel so feast or famine.

    Voidform should be an important part of the spec. It just needs the ramp up reduced.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    I don't get why you want prolonged voidforms when we are having massive ramping issues right now.
    As Lucrece said, the Voidform is not supposed to be that correlated to the ramp-up issues.

    What causes ramp-up issues is not the Voidform itself, it is :
    - Voidform haste stacks increasing each second
    - Mass Hysteria (+2% DoT damage per Voidform stacks, will be gone in BfA)
    - 4p T21 (+0,5% crit per Voidform stacks for single target spells, enhanced by the 2p)

    Remove all this bullshit and transform the Voidform into some kind of "dps cooldown", maybe with a bit of ramp-up (to still have the challenge to keep it longer) but not as overwhelming as it is today.
    Currently, if you cannot stay in Voidform long enough for whatever reasons, you're not DPSing (hello Imonar and 90% of MM+ dungeons). At all. Not because the Voidform is a bad design, but because Blizzard balanced the Shadow spec around those 50+ stacks. You're completely useless outside of Voidform, you're borderline useless for the first 35 stacks of Voidform, you start dealing interesting damage from 35 to 45 stacks, and you're on rampage mode from 45 stacks. Even though this "rampage" is still at the same level than any random class popping a 2-3 minute offensive CD.

  9. #169
    Now that you mention it. You are correct, it really is the stuff attached to VF. However, changing VF to a flat damage increase simply makes it shadowform level 2, aka shadowform with a little more damage and tentacles.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    Now that you mention it. You are correct, it really is the stuff attached to VF. However, changing VF to a flat damage increase simply makes it shadowform level 2, aka shadowform with a little more damage and tentacles.
    Well it's basically removing shadow form and giving it on a cooldown
    We just get to keep the shadow form so people don't whine - so it's named void form.

    Exactly what happened with resto druids.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    Now that you mention it. You are correct, it really is the stuff attached to VF. However, changing VF to a flat damage increase simply makes it shadowform level 2, aka shadowform with a little more damage and tentacles.
    Why is that a bad thing? You enter an empowered form that is basically a mini % damage increase cooldown that you game to keep for long as possible.

    That's interesting gameplay vs boring ass baked in 100% uptime passive damage.

    If you're gonna call it a second shadowform, then celestial alignment for druids is second moonkin form, metamorphosis is just second demonhunter (virtually none of their spells change, they just do more damage). It's what most classes' damage cooldowns do.

    Except instead of being a flat cooldown with a short duration, it is an interactive form with variable duration based on player skill input. That's better than a boring 3 min cd with a flat duration.

    I can't believe people seriously think shadow orbs is a better mechanic and thematic over insanity and voidform.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2018-02-16 at 02:59 PM.

  12. #172
    Mechagnome RsinRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Why is that a bad thing? You enter an empowered form that is basically a mini % damage increase cooldown that you game to keep for long as possible.

    That's interesting gameplay vs boring ass baked in 100% uptime passive damage.

    If you're gonna call it a second shadowform, then celestial alignment for druids is second moonkin form, metamorphosis is just second demonhunter (virtually none of their spells change, they just do more damage). It's what most classes' damage cooldowns do.

    Except instead of being a flat cooldown with a short duration, it is an interactive form with variable duration based on player skill input. That's better than a boring 3 min cd with a flat duration.

    I can't believe people seriously think shadow orbs is a better mechanic and thematic over insanity and voidform.
    I agree 100% why be like everyone else. Obviously the ramp up time in legion is ridiculous but the flow of rotation is awesome imo. Only class I can think that kinda come close is a frost dk with the pillar of frost talent and even then it's a cd.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukario View Post
    Spectral Guise...

    Thanks.
    Yes please.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Why is that a bad thing? You enter an empowered form that is basically a mini % damage increase cooldown that you game to keep for long as possible.

    That's interesting gameplay vs boring ass baked in 100% uptime passive damage.

    If you're gonna call it a second shadowform, then celestial alignment for druids is second moonkin form, metamorphosis is just second demonhunter (virtually none of their spells change, they just do more damage). It's what most classes' damage cooldowns do.

    Except instead of being a flat cooldown with a short duration, it is an interactive form with variable duration based on player skill input. That's better than a boring 3 min cd with a flat duration.

    I can't believe people seriously think shadow orbs is a better mechanic and thematic over insanity and voidform.
    Because having a better thematic is worth being useless in m+/pretty much every non-raid content.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    Because having a better thematic is worth being useless in m+/pretty much every non-raid content.
    You're not useless. And spare me the whine. While people spend their time crying about mages and demonhunters on m+, both those classes parse like shit in antorus. You're subpar in m+, they're subpar in raids.

    You're not an aoe class. Balance druids are total trash in ST and are only propped up by padding on like 2 encounters while being terrible for the rest and especially for doing actually meaningful damage to the boss or priority adds.

    Affliction warlocks and warriors might be the anomaly in this game, but for every other class, they're bad at AoE/ST/cleave while being strong in something else. Raids are the game content this game should be balanced around, and spriest is not doing badly there.

  16. #176
    Except Blizzard is actually doing REAL events for the M+ content, they haven't done any REAL events for raiding ever. Unless you count the raid races that use to happen at Blizzcon between 2 guilds. Raiding is great, I love raiding, but M+ content is very much a significant part of this game going forward.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    If you're gonna call it a second shadowform, then celestial alignment for druids is second moonkin form, metamorphosis is just second demonhunter (virtually none of their spells change, they just do more damage). It's what most classes' damage cooldowns do.
    What don't you understand ? Voidform is NOT an offensive Cooldown. Shadowform is more like a inoffensive Cooldown, in the current design.
    A Shadow Priest at 40 Voidform stacks will deal the same amount of damage as anyone else without popping any cooldown.
    This is where the problem lies.

    And this bullshit prevents us from being really efficient in 95% of scenarii. You can't burst a said target on call because you have to anticipate it by one whole minute. You can't assist heal anything because you have to anticipate it by one whole minute. You can't burst anything on pull (MM+ requirement for 90% of every dungeon) because you need one whole minute to start being efficient.

    It is a second Shadowform and it is not at all possible to compare it with Celestial Alignment or Metamorphosis, which are actually cooldowns you can consider delaying a few if required. Not even mentioning that they make sense thematically.

    And yes, Shadow Orbs was the best design for Shadow Priest. Because it made the Shadow Priest somewhat useful and you actually had to think about how you spent them. Tell me when was the last time you made a choice as Shadow Priest in the last few months ? Your gameplay on every single encounter will forever be the same. No procs, no energy/mana/orbs/cooldown management. Just mash your button in the exact same order for 10 minutes and pray your God that tentacles and Shadowy Apparitions will be nice with you for that extra insanity and that the boss you're fighting does not target you with any spell you're supposed to drop far away because in that case you can go afk for the next minute or so.

    But yeah we have a thematically strong design, thanks for that. Shadow Priest, ironically, never felt this flat to play, even during the CoP nonsense in WoD.

    Edit : Ah, you're considering that Balance Druids are "terrible at doing meaningful dmaage to priority adds". Damn, that's the first time I get to read this.
    Last edited by Ophenia; 2018-02-19 at 06:44 AM.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    What don't you understand ? Voidform is NOT an offensive Cooldown. Shadowform is more like a inoffensive Cooldown, in the current design.
    A Shadow Priest at 40 Voidform stacks will deal the same amount of damage as anyone else without popping any cooldown.
    This is where the problem lies.

    And this bullshit prevents us from being really efficient in 95% of scenarii. You can't burst a said target on call because you have to anticipate it by one whole minute. You can't assist heal anything because you have to anticipate it by one whole minute. You can't burst anything on pull (MM+ requirement for 90% of every dungeon) because you need one whole minute to start being efficient.

    It is a second Shadowform and it is not at all possible to compare it with Celestial Alignment or Metamorphosis, which are actually cooldowns you can consider delaying a few if required. Not even mentioning that they make sense thematically.

    And yes, Shadow Orbs was the best design for Shadow Priest. Because it made the Shadow Priest somewhat useful and you actually had to think about how you spent them. Tell me when was the last time you made a choice as Shadow Priest in the last few months ? Your gameplay on every single encounter will forever be the same. No procs, no energy/mana/orbs/cooldown management. Just mash your button in the exact same order for 10 minutes and pray your God that tentacles and Shadowy Apparitions will be nice with you for that extra insanity and that the boss you're fighting does not target you with any spell you're supposed to drop far away because in that case you can go afk for the next minute or so.

    But yeah we have a thematically strong design, thanks for that. Shadow Priest, ironically, never felt this flat to play, even during the CoP nonsense in WoD.
    You keep bringing up stacks when everybody else has already agreed they are shit and voidform could be redesigned to frontload their benefit instead of ramp it up. But OK, feel free to rant about something nobody praised or said they wanted.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    You're not useless. And spare me the whine. While people spend their time crying about mages and demonhunters on m+, both those classes parse like shit in antorus. You're subpar in m+, they're subpar in raids.

    You're not an aoe class. Balance druids are total trash in ST and are only propped up by padding on like 2 encounters while being terrible for the rest and especially for doing actually meaningful damage to the boss or priority adds.

    Affliction warlocks and warriors might be the anomaly in this game, but for every other class, they're bad at AoE/ST/cleave while being strong in something else. Raids are the game content this game should be balanced around, and spriest is not doing badly there.
    Here's where that falls flat on its face; on a fight like Garothi, Balance druids parsing 80th percentile do 1.57m, SPriests 1.64m. To spare you the maths, thats less than a 5% difference on a class that is "total trash in ST" but DEMOLISHES SPriest in AoE. Its great that in theory they have a niche, but the tuning simply isn't there for what you're saying to actually be true.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    You're not useless. And spare me the whine. While people spend their time crying about mages and demonhunters on m+, both those classes parse like shit in antorus. You're subpar in m+, they're subpar in raids.

    You're not an aoe class. Balance druids are total trash in ST and are only propped up by padding on like 2 encounters while being terrible for the rest and especially for doing actually meaningful damage to the boss or priority adds.

    Affliction warlocks and warriors might be the anomaly in this game, but for every other class, they're bad at AoE/ST/cleave while being strong in something else. Raids are the game content this game should be balanced around, and spriest is not doing badly there.
    Here's where that falls flat on its face; on a fight like Garothi, Balance druids parsing 80th percentile do 1.57m, SPriests 1.64m. To spare you the maths, thats less than a 5% difference on a class that is "total trash in ST" but DEMOLISHES SPriest in AoE. Its great that in theory they have a niche, but the tuning simply isn't there for what you're saying to actually be true. Wouldn't expect SPriests to compete in AoE because thats not what they're supposedly good at, but then when you look at fights they are meant to be good at like Coven, Balance isn't that far behind.

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