Shadow BFA Datamining

[Siglemic]

I'm returning to WoW and was curious what Shadow stat weights are and what's the best traits? I tried some Gladiator's Sanctum and nothing really stood out as far as PvP traits.

[BetrayedOf52]

Void Bolt: Void Bolt extends the duration of your Shadow Word: Pain and Vampiric Touch on all nearby targets by 3 seconds, up from 2 seconds.


This seems like a really nice change, hope it sticks

[zito]

Void Bolt: Void Bolt extends the duration of your Shadow Word: Pain and Vampiric Touch on all nearby targets by 3 seconds, up from 2 seconds.


This seems like a really nice change, hope it sticks

i did some quick math, if you can do 5 void bolts in one void form it makes a difference. I don't think that can happen often without berserking racial or S2M, or at least til we get high amounts of haste.

also just going over the talents and for PvE there's almost no choice, there's always a clear winner besides the first row :l

[NeximEU]

Shadow

• Shadow Priest: Damage and healing 'bonus' for all abilities decreased from -25% to -31%. -LOL
• Shadow Word: Pain: Initial damage and damage over time both increased by 10%. -Maybe our dots will do more dmg than melee auto attacks now?
• Vampiric Touch: Damage increased by 10%. -Maybe our dots will do more dmg than melee auto attacks now?
• Void Eruption: Damage increased by 18.75%. - Further increase the desire to drop out voidform asap =/
• Void Bolt: Void Bolt extends the duration of your Shadow Word: Pain and Vampiric Touch on all nearby targets by 3 seconds, up from 2 seconds. - FINALLY but they need to realise if they want us to not refresh dots in voidform then we need more than 3, this is not legion anymore void bolt cd does not reach levels of being able to actually refresh even with 3 seconds. Very welcome change though and a massive step in the right direction of actually making being in voidform a thing you want to do. Now give it some DR

also shamans got nerfed what the actual fuck haha

From the POV of someone who likes a DoT-centered play-style i don't like the void bolt change.

While it's a definate buff, void bolt extending DOT durations is one of the arguments for not having good tools for DOT applications in the first place. The argument seems to be DoTs should either be easy to apply or easy to maintain, but never both, which was argued during legion as to reasons not to give shadow good DoT spreading mechanics.

Combined with the aura nerf DOTs got barely any damage increase (75 to 69% damage with a 10% increase means a relative 1,2% increase to DoT damage). The damage increase here is to void eruption with DOTs being slightly buffed and everything else nerfed. The direction seems to be even more into upfront AOE with still tickling DoTs. I would have preferred to see void eruption damage decreased and DoT application improved. One of the advantages with shadow has been good self sustain with VT, which is now much worse in BFA, and it's one of the reasons levelling and soloing is such a relative pain.

[Deleted]

From the POV of someone who likes a DoT-centered play-style i don't like the void bolt change.

While it's a definate buff, void bolt extending DOT durations is one of the arguments for not having good tools for DOT applications in the first place. The argument seems to be DoTs should either be easy to apply or easy to maintain, but never both, which was argued during legion as to reasons not to give shadow good DoT spreading mechanics.

Combined with the aura nerf DOTs got barely any damage increase (75 to 69% damage with a 10% increase means a relative 1,2% increase to DoT damage). The damage increase here is to void eruption with DOTs being slightly buffed and everything else nerfed. The direction seems to be even more into upfront AOE with still tickling DoTs. I would have preferred to see void eruption damage decreased and DoT application improved. One of the advantages with shadow has been good self sustain with VT, which is now much worse in BFA, and it's one of the reasons levelling and soloing is such a relative pain.

The refresh mechanic is much needed with voidform as it totally defeats the point of voidform by having you manually refreshing dots while inside it.
There really is no real reason to not have a means to spread along with it, i don't think there are any dot classes now that don't have a way to aoe spread one of their dots now?

Affli - seed - baseline
Balance - solar is aoe - baseline
Shadow - dark void - talent

Even specs that have little dots or just have them as extra tools in their kit have means to spread
Assassination - Deadly via FoK, Crimson tempest is an aoe talent dot
Destro - Cataclysm - talent, Havok baseline but limited to 1 target
Arms - Cleave, bladestorm, sweeping strikes etc all apply deep wounds and sweeping can apply rends like havok i am sure.


Yes i did doubt the actual dot dmg buffs will be that impactful but i am hopeful that they will actually do more damage combined than melee passive auto attack damage now. They keep putting more focus on our eruption because it is one of our only sources of burst dmg we have which is essential to actually be a viable class in content outside of raids. It's unfortunate but thats how they do it, personally i would rather we had something like an AOE reverse agony ability.

Entropy - 1min cd
2 second cast
Apply a 10 second duration SW:P and VT to your target and all targets within 8 yards.
Dots do 500% of their damage to start with and decreases by 50% per stack, decreasing 1 stack per second.
SW:P and VT tick damage decreases the cd by 0.5 sec per tick.
Void bolt increases the stack by 2 and duration by 2 seconds.

It starts off with 10 stacks and decreases every second doing less damage with each stack loss. It's not spammable, its a dot that does its damage in the part of aoe that matters (short upfront), the cd reduction puts on an emphasis to use it against high number of targets rather than cast on cd, feeds in to void form to emphasise being in voidform to keep the stacks up.

Whether that would actually even solve anything is a different matter but it would be a way to give us good initial aoe damage whilst still keeping the dots as the main thing rather than instant damage nukes.

[NeximEU]

The refresh mechanic is much needed with voidform as it totally defeats the point of voidform by having you manually refreshing dots while inside it.
There really is no real reason to not have a means to spread along with it, i don't think there are any dot classes now that don't have a way to aoe spread one of their dots now?

It's what blizzard has communicated earlier in legion, since shadow could extend their DOTs indefinately they didn't need to be easy to apply. If they are not easy to apply the means of getting that crucial up front damage for 5-mans needs to come with nukes that either are limited by cooldowns, either a direct cooldown or a charge system.

Voidform with 0,5% haste per stacks defeats it's own purpose currently. Without knowing the direction shadow is heading it's hard to gauge what makes sence, that's why i pointed out that i was looking from the perspective of someone who would prefer to play a DoT-style class. That might not end up being shadow priest in BFA, but currently I have a very hard time seeing which direction the class is even going. So my argument against void eruption damage, and the void bolt duration increase combined with earlier dev arguments on the matter, comes from the perspective that I would like shadow to be a DoT class.

I agree with you that there is no reason for DOTs not to also be easily applied or spread, but I argue from previous dev input on the matter. If DOTs were as easy to apply for shadow as they are for balance druids the opportunity cost of applying them in void form would be much smaller, and they could be a larger part of your damage in 5-mans since they apply from earlier in the pull.
That in turn could help with the, to me, highly illogical situation where entering void form is more impactful than actually being in void form.

I simply dislike the radical style change from a DOT class to an AOE nuke class. While void eruption is the biggest culprit, both shadow crash and the upfront damage of Dark Void contributes to this.

Yes i did doubt the actual dot dmg buffs will be that impactful but i am hopeful that they will actually do more damage combined than melee passive auto attack damage now. They keep putting more focus on our eruption because it is one of our only sources of burst dmg we have which is essential to actually be a viable class in content outside of raids. It's unfortunate but thats how they do it, personally i would rather we had something like an AOE reverse agony ability.

Entropy - 1min cd
2 second cast
Apply a 10 second duration SW:P and VT to your target and all targets within 8 yards.
Dots do 500% of their damage to start with and decreases by 50% per stack, decreasing 1 stack per second.
SW:P and VT tick damage decreases the cd by 0.5 sec per tick.
Void bolt increases the stack by 2 and duration by 2 seconds.

It starts off with 10 stacks and decreases every second doing less damage with each stack loss. It's not spammable, its a dot that does its damage in the part of aoe that matters (short upfront), the cd reduction puts on an emphasis to use it against high number of targets rather than cast on cd, feeds in to void form to emphasise being in voidform to keep the stacks up.

A wild growth style of AOE DoT like you just suggested, or AOE pulsing DoT around a target would fit perfectly with a DoT-style class. I could see your suggested ability replacing shadow crash, and fit more to the DoT theme.
For example i think the main problem with mind spike was that it replaced the wrong ability in trying to make mind flay into a semi AOE filler, since a AOE filler already existed in mind sear. Imagine instead:

Mind Spike - 12 second CD, 2 charges, replaces mind sear
Implant a spike in your targets mind causing corrosive shadow energy to radiate from the target, dealing [X% of spell power * 10] shadow damage over 9 seconds to all enemies within 10 yards of the target. Generates 1 insanity every time it deals damage.

An ability with charges would allow for upfront damage in a similar way as your wild growth style of falloff, competing with the instant burst AOE of other classes. A cast every 12 seconds means there is no longer a question between spamming mind sear and applying DOTs, you apply mind spike and still apply DOTs. Or just reverse the legion mind spike, where mind spike replace mind blast with mind flay detonating it instead of the other way around if you prefer a upfront nuke style of play.

Void eruption damage, shadow crash, and upfront damage from Dark Void can all solve the problem with shadows back heavy DPS profile in 5 mans. Damage will probably be fine, the delivery is where it's lacking. But before looking at spells i think the devs need to figure out what they want void form to be, because currently it definitely doesn't feel impactful.

[Deleted]

Reading through your post on your proposed revisions to Shadow, I think you missed one important thing. You propose turning Flay/Sear into insanity spenders, but if that's the case then it's going to be very difficult/annoying to cap insanity because we have no other spammable abilities. Mind Blast has a cooldown, and you don't really want to be casting DoTs on a target that already has them. What would our filler be with your design?

I only now realised you'd replied to me so I'm getting back to you now. Apologies for that.

That's actually a good point which I indeed hadn't thought of. I'm sure there are multiple ways to fill up the gap. I'm tempted to say that mind spike could make a return in one way or another for that purpose. Not necessarily as the same ability as it used to be, but something to spam during the cooldown of Mind Blast.

I still like the idea that Mind Blast is the go-to ability that does decent to high damage. Being a spammable ability would mean it cannot do that.


One idea I'm envisioning right now off the top of my head for Mind Spike would be the following :


"Numbs a target's mind, stealing haste by (2/4/6%), and deals x damage. Reduces the cooldown of your next Mind Blast by (0.5 / 1 / 1.5s ). Stacks up to 3 times. "







What do you think of that, and how did you like the other suggestions ?

[kalaratic]

how the fuck is dispersion still a 60% DR

[Alanar]

how the fuck is dispersion still a 60% DR

And why did we lose the heal with it?,

[Kjolmir]

And why did we lose the heal with it?,

And what can we do to get it back?

[Deleted]

And what can we do to get it back?

And what price do we have to pay for it?

[Dizzeeyooo]

how the fuck is dispersion still a 60% DR

because they need the design space for an exciting pvp talent to add an extra 35% reduction

[Alanar]

And what price do we have to pay for it?

What are we doing wrong?

[Al Gorefiend]

What are we doing wrong?

Assuming something fun and useful would stick around in World of Warcraft.

[Ophenia]

8.0.1 already brings a flat +18.75% to Dark Ascension and Void Eruption, just to confirm you don't really want to expand your Voidform.

What a joke.

[Alanar]

8.0.1 already brings a flat +18.75% to Dark Ascension and Void Eruption, just to confirm you don't really want to expand your Voidform.

What a joke.

Yea.. many people predicted this... damn sucks to see it came true.

[Karei]

The way VEr and DA work with VF is actually counterintuitive. You want to cast VEr and DA as much as you can due to the damage it provides yet they change the dotincrement by VB to 3 secs again so you can stay in VF longer.. I would prefer going back to Cata by just casting dots on everything, let them run out and cast MF as filler. This would obviously mean they need to increase dot duration but well, It's like the Spriest 'devs' play tug-of-war with the spec

[Azzurri]

8.0.1 already brings a flat +18.75% to Dark Ascension and Void Eruption, just to confirm you don't really want to expand your Voidform.

What a joke.

Blizzard: Let's use this new mechanic (with cool animations and effects) and make it core to the spec, but wait we don't really want you do actually use it.

Like wut?

[Nyel]

They don't have any design philosophy for Shadow Priest.

"You need to extent the VF as long as possible because you get stronger!"

"You need to cast Void Eruption as often as possible because it's a super strong AoE now!"

[Kilee25]

I would prefer going back to Cata by just casting dots on everything, let them run out and cast MF as filler.

My memory could be bad, but I’m pretty sure mind flay refreshed sw: p in cata. I recall it being a great mechanic.