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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    My point was that people like PB but hate that it’s random, and it doesn’t get nearly the same up-in-arms reactions that rtb does, despite being more random with less control than rtb.
    Only that it has been brought up multiple times over and over again. Rng is fine but when its such a big difference in dps its bad design.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Iettlopp View Post
    Only that it has been brought up multiple times over and over again. Rng is fine but when its such a big difference in dps its bad design.
    Right, the rtb rng has been largely minimized with controlling factors like loaded dice, though it took them forever to get there.

    I think they’ve approximated their goal for rtb to slightly change your rotation with each cast (of the die). Its close enough, but could be so much better.

    If they had gone with actual rotation changing buffs for all of them instead of crit, attack speed, leech, and energy boost...the ability might not have fallen so flat.

    Id love it if i got an rtb buff that added a chance to proc free bte’s on pistol shot *proc*use. Or a buff that granted 30% multistrike. Or a buff that increases pistol shot dmg, stacking up to 5 for every saber slash.

    The idea had lots of potential, but the buffs suck at an excitement level.

    And thats my rant.

    Tldr. Rtb is fine in its current iteration as far as rng goes. Stop bitching about rtb rng from a year ago if you havnt played it recently.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord Boricha's Avatar
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    I hope it's gone for good. I always use snd when I mess around with outlaw.

  4. #24
    Banned Lazuli's Avatar
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    Looking at that calculator.. we can use killing spree again!?

  5. #25
    Legendary! SinR's Avatar
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    There may be hope for Combat yet.
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  6. #26
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrappybristol View Post
    The chance it's been removed is rather high.
    Best news ever.. It was a crappy spender..

    Slice and Dice > Roll the Bones...
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  7. #27
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    Spec will remain dead if they dont remove it AND SnD falls behind (DMG wise). Simple as that. Who - in progress environment - wants RNG DMG?

    So lets alls hope theirs devs grow some brainz and they remove it and balance things well.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Best news ever.. It was a crappy spender..

    Slice and Dice > Roll the Bones...
    An ability where you spend combo points to increase your attack speed (and more recently energy gen too, only added because snd was too weak)

    And an ability where you spend combo points to gain random buffs that affect your rotation.

    One of those is more interesting than the other.

    SnD was one of the most boring abilities in the game: a maintenance buff with zero impact on gameplay. You maintained the buff, and then pressed sinister strike and eviscerate.

    On the topic of RNG - RNG is present in every single aspect of WoW. There is no part of this game that is not heavily impacted by random elements. What you actually don't like about RTB is that the buffs are not balanced well. If all of the buffs were balanced and/or when you rolled a single, that single buff was enhanced - you wouldn't be complaining.

    It's a dead spec because the dps risk(not from rtb rng) sucks, and the gear loadout is different than sub/ass, plus legendarys are mild at best.

  9. #29
    I'd rather they rework it to provide based on rolls, different rotation, but similar output.
    As much as people hate the RNG it's one of the more interesting abilities in the game.

  10. #30
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    An ability where you spend combo points to increase your attack speed (and more recently energy gen too, only added because snd was too weak)

    And an ability where you spend combo points to gain random buffs that affect your rotation.

    One of those is more interesting than the other.

    SnD was one of the most boring abilities in the game: a maintenance buff with zero impact on gameplay. You maintained the buff, and then pressed sinister strike and eviscerate.

    On the topic of RNG - RNG is present in every single aspect of WoW. There is no part of this game that is not heavily impacted by random elements. What you actually don't like about RTB is that the buffs are not balanced well. If all of the buffs were balanced and/or when you rolled a single, that single buff was enhanced - you wouldn't be complaining.

    It's a dead spec because the dps risk(not from rtb rng) sucks, and the gear loadout is different than sub/ass, plus legendarys are mild at best.
    An ability that can give you 5 or 6 different buffs, where 2 of them are mandatory (and the others pretty underwhelming) to perform your rotation; Try calculating how many combo points you need to make, before you have your buffs up and running..

    I'll take SnD any day, thank you...
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  11. #31
    If I recall correctly SND is best in Antorus.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    An ability that can give you 5 or 6 different buffs, where 2 of them are mandatory (and the others pretty underwhelming) to perform your rotation; Try calculating how many combo points you need to make, before you have your buffs up and running..

    I'll take SnD any day, thank you...
    Sorry that you feel boring is more interesting.

    None of the buffs are "mandatory". The spec is not balanced well, and rtb in particular is not balanced well. That does not make rtb worse than SnD in anything except complexity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    If I recall correctly SND is best in Antorus.
    with a very specific set of gear.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    You literally just need 4set and a high pantheon trinket for it to be better than RtB

    - - - Updated - - -

    Literally just revert the spec to WoD, bring back combat insight, make killing spree baseline, make pistol shot not be a proc and work like revealing strike did. Fixed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was stuck between rogue and DK for main in BFA, if outlaw loses RtB and sin gets dispatch and crimson tempest, Rogue hands down wins.
    I kind of like the change they made to pistol shot procs in the BFA alpha. It will now cost energy to use it, but it won't be for free anymore. Now it won't feel as weird to use it during ARush. And dispatch and Crimson Tempest have returned as talents (both on different rows) though hopefully crimson tempest will actually deal damage.

  14. #34
    Slice and Dice is literally the worst finisher ever. It's a painful relic of Vanilla that needs to die in a fire. RtB at least was kind of interesting.

    Awful news. Truly awful.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    bring back combat insight, make killing spree baseline, make pistol shot not be a proc and work like revealing strike did. Fixed.
    Why would anyone want Combat Insight back? One of the worst mechanics they ever implemented.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Squiggit View Post
    Slice and Dice is literally the worst finisher ever. It's a painful relic of Vanilla that needs to die in a fire. RtB at least was kind of interesting.

    Awful news. Truly awful.
    RTB is no longer interesting as they neutered the individual buffs, removed three buff, six buff combos and reduced the chance for all buffs. All the while making Loaded Dice a talent choice in BFA.

  17. #37
    Well .. It's still there to date .. RTB is still a part of the Outlaw Rogue. Loaded Dice is now a level 90 talent.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    It rewarded you for planning out your abilities and not just spamming your heavy hitters whenever you liked. I enjoyed it

    - - - Updated - - -



    Did I get truebearing or sharkinfested? No? Reroll - this time? Reroll - Again!? Reroll, oh look I'm bottom dps. Literally the ONLY fun part of RtB was getting a 5 roll on pull, which I think happened literally 3 or 4 times in the whole expansion to me personally.
    No, insight punished you for performing your rotation.

    I remember having to often hold back to deliberately time deep insight in order to be able to do burst dps at certain part of a fight, or missing deep insight because i was energy starved.

    It was a horrible ability. Even when properly utilized (easily done) it was counter-intuitive to have to stop or attempt to speed up your rotation in order to sync timing with deep insight.

    rtb is an interesting ability, with badly balanced buffs - the idea is great, but the buffs suck right now.

    And no, SnD is not automatically better with just 4p t21 and the pantheon trinket. Unless you're exceptionally bad at utilizing rtb properly.

    And it's a dps loss to continuously reroll at this point in time.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    I guess all the theorycrafters on iceyveins and ravenholdt are wrong then -

    anyway - RtB fucking sucks and it's why so many rogues rerolled this expac because for many, it literally killed combat. RNG is a part of nearly every DPS class nowadays, but having your damage 100% reliant on getting good rolls is just stupid.
    I was trying to play as Outlaw, but while we were progressing I had ups and lows in DPS, which felt really unfair. No matter what, I was in either TOP3 DPS or in lowest 3 DPS.

    Changed my spec to Assa and won't change it back any time soon as long as RTB stays.

  20. #40
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    Outlaw can be fun during cooldowns but just doesn't have the mechanics to feel rewarding in the long run. There is no "I can do this in this situation to increase my damage" - you just do what you can, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't and that feels pretty terrible.

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