Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    It rewarded you for planning out your abilities and not just spamming your heavy hitters whenever you liked. I enjoyed it

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    Did I get truebearing or sharkinfested? No? Reroll - this time? Reroll - Again!? Reroll, oh look I'm bottom dps. Literally the ONLY fun part of RtB was getting a 5 roll on pull, which I think happened literally 3 or 4 times in the whole expansion to me personally.
    No, insight punished you for performing your rotation.

    I remember having to often hold back to deliberately time deep insight in order to be able to do burst dps at certain part of a fight, or missing deep insight because i was energy starved.

    It was a horrible ability. Even when properly utilized (easily done) it was counter-intuitive to have to stop or attempt to speed up your rotation in order to sync timing with deep insight.

    rtb is an interesting ability, with badly balanced buffs - the idea is great, but the buffs suck right now.

    And no, SnD is not automatically better with just 4p t21 and the pantheon trinket. Unless you're exceptionally bad at utilizing rtb properly.

    And it's a dps loss to continuously reroll at this point in time.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    No, insight punished you for performing your rotation.

    I remember having to often hold back to deliberately time deep insight in order to be able to do burst dps at certain part of a fight, or missing deep insight because i was energy starved.

    It was a horrible ability. Even when properly utilized (easily done) it was counter-intuitive to have to stop or attempt to speed up your rotation in order to sync timing with deep insight.

    rtb is an interesting ability, with badly balanced buffs - the idea is great, but the buffs suck right now.

    And no, SnD is not automatically better with just 4p t21 and the pantheon trinket. Unless you're exceptionally bad at utilizing rtb properly.

    And it's a dps loss to continuously reroll at this point in time.
    I guess all the theorycrafters on iceyveins and ravenholdt are wrong then -

    anyway - RtB fucking sucks and it's why so many rogues rerolled this expac because for many, it literally killed combat. RNG is a part of nearly every DPS class nowadays, but having your damage 100% reliant on getting good rolls is just stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    I kind of like the change they made to pistol shot procs in the BFA alpha. It will now cost energy to use it, but it won't be for free anymore. Now it won't feel as weird to use it during ARush. And dispatch and Crimson Tempest have returned as talents (both on different rows) though hopefully crimson tempest will actually deal damage.
    I feel like they need to reduce the proc rate and increase it's damage, for shooting someone, it feels a little meh

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    I guess all the theorycrafters on iceyveins and ravenholdt are wrong then -

    anyway - RtB fucking sucks and it's why so many rogues rerolled this expac because for many, it literally killed combat. RNG is a part of nearly every DPS class nowadays, but having your damage 100% reliant on getting good rolls is just stupid.
    I was trying to play as Outlaw, but while we were progressing I had ups and lows in DPS, which felt really unfair. No matter what, I was in either TOP3 DPS or in lowest 3 DPS.

    Changed my spec to Assa and won't change it back any time soon as long as RTB stays.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    I was trying to play as Outlaw, but while we were progressing I had ups and lows in DPS, which felt really unfair. No matter what, I was in either TOP3 DPS or in lowest 3 DPS.

    Changed my spec to Assa and won't change it back any time soon as long as RTB stays.
    Indeed, I actually like the playstyle of outlaw with SnD, but since I have the wrists and boots for sin, it just does so much more damage. Plus poion build rn is the most fun Rogue has been in Legion for me, at the very least Sin looks just as good in BFA

  5. #45
    Dreadlord Chemii's Avatar
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    Outlaw can be fun during cooldowns but just doesn't have the mechanics to feel rewarding in the long run. There is no "I can do this in this situation to increase my damage" - you just do what you can, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't and that feels pretty terrible.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    It is in there... as a lvl40 Outlaw spell
    Don't do this, I was just about to get my hopes up

    On topic: Roll the Bones needs to go, or at least guarantee two buffs with every roll.

    I'd like if Main Gauche was an ability that you actually had to press when it procced, keep it off the global cooldown to hopefully not lose any procs, give us another button to press, maybe it could provide one Roll the Bones buff to kind of have the best of both Roll the Bones and Slice and Dice
    Last edited by Iconja; 2018-03-14 at 12:26 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    I guess all the theorycrafters on iceyveins and ravenholdt are wrong then -

    anyway - RtB fucking sucks and it's why so many rogues rerolled this expac because for many, it literally killed combat. RNG is a part of nearly every DPS class nowadays, but having your damage 100% reliant on getting good rolls is just stupid.

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    I feel like they need to reduce the proc rate and increase it's damage, for shooting someone, it feels a little meh
    Incorrect - Outlaw was all set to be the highest dps spec on release, and nearly all rogues were going to main outlaw, despite any rng issues. Two weeks into the expansion and the spec was nerfed into the ground, forcing rerolls for anyone serious about dps.

    Spec movement away from outlaw was not due to RNG, it was due to legendaries and nerfs at the beginning of Legion.

    Yes rtb sucks, but it’s more interesting by far than SnD. A small difference of opinion.

    RNG “rolls” impact sub and ass fairly heavily as well, you don’t do exceptional damage without DFA crits or poison bomb procs. RtB just needs better balanced buffs.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    I guess all the theorycrafters on iceyveins and ravenholdt are wrong then -

    anyway - RtB fucking sucks and it's why so many rogues rerolled this expac because for many, it literally killed combat. RNG is a part of nearly every DPS class nowadays, but having your damage 100% reliant on getting good rolls is just stupid.

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    I feel like they need to reduce the proc rate and increase it's damage, for shooting someone, it feels a little meh
    Sorry, I meant to say that the proc would deal more damage but now cost energy in BfA. That was my bad.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    Sorry, I meant to say that the proc would deal more damage but now cost energy in BfA. That was my bad.
    Sounds like a good change to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    Incorrect - Outlaw was all set to be the highest dps spec on release, and nearly all rogues were going to main outlaw, despite any rng issues. Two weeks into the expansion and the spec was nerfed into the ground, forcing rerolls for anyone serious about dps.

    Spec movement away from outlaw was not due to RNG, it was due to legendaries and nerfs at the beginning of Legion.

    Yes rtb sucks, but it’s more interesting by far than SnD. A small difference of opinion.

    RNG “rolls” impact sub and ass fairly heavily as well, you don’t do exceptional damage without DFA crits or poison bomb procs. RtB just needs better balanced buffs.
    But Sin and Sub aren't punished nearly as harshly as Outlaw is for bad RNG, sin without a poison bomb proc on pull for example is great - I just was doing a quick hc clear and got 4 bomb procs on vari back to back and pull and hit 5 mil burst, that's what RNG should be, amazing damage when it goes perfectly but just fine damage when it doesn't.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Bennett View Post
    I guess all the theorycrafters on iceyveins and ravenholdt are wrong then -

    anyway - RtB fucking sucks and it's why so many rogues rerolled this expac because for many, it literally killed combat. RNG is a part of nearly every DPS class nowadays, but having your damage 100% reliant on getting good rolls is just stupid.

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    I feel like they need to reduce the proc rate and increase it's damage, for shooting someone, it feels a little meh
    I love RtB. I rerolled because they nerfed Outlaw and I didn't want to play fucking Assassination so I went WW. It's one of my favorite abilities in the game but they just need to reduce the variance of good vs. bad rolls.

  11. #51
    Herald of the Titans Galbrei's Avatar
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    This has put a smile on my face, hate that ability, but I'm also a bit confused. Wasn't Loaded Dice a new BfA talent? Is that gone too?

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Galbrei View Post
    This has put a smile on my face, hate that ability, but I'm also a bit confused. Wasn't Loaded Dice a new BfA talent? Is that gone too?
    rtb isn't gone. loaded dice isn't gone.

    Your opinion is welcome, but providing details other than "i don't like it" will lead to better discourse.

    You don't like it because it's random? My response would be to ask you if you like WoW at all? Exceptionally large and integral parts of the game are built upon the RnG function.

    loot, crit, most trinkets, any % chance ability, and that's just overarching RnG elements, we can get very specific too.

    What people don't like is the dps variance. If rtb had little to no dps variance, everyone would love it.

  13. #53
    Did ppl hate this much on RTB in the beginning when outlaw stomped everything?
    Dont recall that.

  14. #54
    Stood in the Fire Ragnarohk's Avatar
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    RtB is the only reason I play rogue.
    Back to druid I go.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by krigsmaskin View Post
    Did ppl hate this much on RTB in the beginning when outlaw stomped everything?
    Dont recall that.
    What’s funny is when the expansion first hit and into nighthold, it was nothing but praise for Outlaw, no one said anything about RtB. It wasn’t until Assass started to pull ahead that people suddenly realized how stupid it is.

    Btw, wtf is wrong with this forum. Lol, joined in 2008, it’s 2018, that = 7 year member eh?

  16. #56
    Screw RTB, it's been a balance nightmare for the spec. It has also pushed a mainstay of the rogue toolkit, SND to near obsolescence. I mean I get that they wanted to try something new but gambling just hasn't worked out well in a competitive game. The allure to a game of rolling dice is winning a big jackpot. Instead, the spec feels like a poor person spending their food budget on lottery tickets.

    To make the jackpot feeling work, the dps without hitting six buffs would have to be at least on par with everyone else and that lucky roll would need to be double everyone else. That is just not possible in WOW. RTB is simply incompatible with the game because other players will not be happy being blown away by a lucky roll.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by scrappybristol View Post
    The chance it's been removed is rather high.
    On one hand, good, since it was a terrible failure.

    On the other hand, too bad, since it had potential if it had been implemented in a different way that wasn't so hugely rng. I really have no idea who on the dev team thinks that players love rng. Maybe when you first play the game, but then no.

  18. #58
    If they leave it in its current state then I am delighted its gone - when you get the buffs that dont do jack and you have to build up the combos again to reroll can be a pain at times and has hit my dps.

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