Ele Shaman Early Beta datamining spellchanges

[Rezhka]

If they are adament about the FS CD could we turn ES into our tag spell? For purely selfish reasons. I really do not want to loose my no cd instant tag, I don't even care if it's doesn't have a dot or even damage, just let me tag shit that is not connected. >_<

I wonder what's so OP of having FS up on multiple targets? I mean, having multi chance of Lava Surge is the only thing that make Ele viable in pvp. Not to mention FS can always be dispelled. It'll hurt ele a lot in pvp, than bring up this so called balance with this FS cd like srsly. I don't mind they reduce the duration, but leave the cd alone.

[Kralljin]

If they are adament about the FS CD could we turn ES into our tag spell? For purely selfish reasons. I really do not want to loose my no cd instant tag, I don't even care if it's doesn't have a dot or even damage, just let me tag shit that is not connected. >_<

You can still use FrS, slows the mob but still does the job.

I wonder what's so OP of having FS up on multiple targets?

Class fantasy, multi dotting is for Affli,Demo,Balance and SP.
But don't ask for Bloodlust becoming Shaman only, that's totally different.

It's kinda sad actually, i would support this philosophy if it wasn't such a damn one way street where certain classes are being excluded from but others get mercilessly treated by it.

I mean, having multi chance of Lava Surge is the only thing that make Ele viable in pvp.

It'll be fine for PvP as long as Icefury remains strong.

FS also had a CD in MoP and Elemental was still strong there, Elemental is currently so strong because of Icefury and it's template being rather tanky.

[Dmitro]

i hate the whole system where core rotational abilities are talents instead of baseline,

should be totally other way around

icefury/elemental blasts baseline > you can choose to turn them into passives if you dont enjoy their gameplay , thus losing a bit of damage.

and their talent spots should be replaced with new talents, so we eventually have more options overall and more core spells > spec is less pruned.

[Venziir]

So after a bit of Alpha, I'm not really impressed. The talents are messy and there's just too many things missin

[mkultra55]

i hate the whole system where core rotational abilities are talents instead of baseline,

should be totally other way around

icefury/elemental blasts baseline > you can choose to turn them into passives if you dont enjoy their gameplay , thus losing a bit of damage.

and their talent spots should be replaced with new talents, so we eventually have more options overall and more core spells > spec is less pruned.

Echo and Icefury are very different though.

Echo makes the baseline rotation smoother making it a great candidate to go baseline.
Icefury totally changes the rotation making it perfect as a talent.

[Dmitro]

Echo and Icefury are very different though.

Echo makes the baseline rotation smoother making it a great candidate to go baseline.
Icefury totally changes the rotation making it perfect as a talent.

I mean, icefury makes our rotation complete (it adds all 3 elements of nature to it) so I kinda dont agree, imo it only makes our class complete and thus should be baseline (while changed of course, it can be made less stressful > just 3 stacks with the same timer, why not)

but you got my overall idea

[Socialhealer]

It'll be fine for PvP as long as Icefury remains strong.

FS also had a CD in MoP and Elemental was still strong there, Elemental is currently so strong because of Icefury and it's template being rather tanky.

yeah lava burst hit like a truck so, a 100% buff for lava burst in pvp to compensate for flame shock having a CD (never happening so fuck off blizz with that 6 seconds shit)

also lightning bolt hit way harder so another 50% buff and of course castable on the move.

since we're not going to get either, blizzard can just choke on a dick if they think that flame shock cooldown is a good idea.

- - - Updated - - -

Class fantasy, multi dotting is for Affli,Demo,Balance and SP.
But don't ask for Bloodlust becoming Shaman only, that's totally different.

It's kinda sad actually, i would support this philosophy if it wasn't such a damn one way street where certain classes are being excluded from but others get mercilessly treated by it.

don't forget even if we do have so many flame shocks up we're basically in pseudo ascendance mode, we still deal less damage then an spriest/affliction/boomkin with everyone dotted up we're just that awful a spec at multidotting compared to the big 3, i don't see where blizzard perceives us a threat to them at all.

[Kralljin]

also lightning bolt hit way harder so another 50% buff and of course castable on the move.

Lightning bolt is utterly irrelevant for PvP outside of Stormkeeper, even then you'd rather want zap their asses with Cl if they stack too much.

don't forget even if we do have so many flame shocks up we're basically in pseudo ascendance mode, we still deal less damage then an spriest/affliction/boomkin with everyone dotted up we're just that awful a spec at multidotting compared to the big 3, i don't see where blizzard perceives us a threat to them at all.

It's not about the damage, it's about the fantasy to apply dots to multiple targets.

It's retarded in the greater perspective of the game because there are so many other classes that are doing things they shouldn't be able to do, but i'm repeating myself by saying that Blizzard has their favorites when excluding classes from their "Class Fantasy pruning / nerfing" (whatever you want to call it)

[Socialhealer]

Lightning bolt is utterly irrelevant for PvP outside of Stormkeeper, even then you'd rather want zap their asses with Cl if they stack too much.

thats why i said a 50% buff and on the move, i certainly was using lightning bolt in MoP in pvp, and knowing you can keep that 15 yard gap while kiting melee to cast it rather than the melee closing 15 yards by the time you've cast it and interrupting you.

[Kralljin]

thats why i said a 50% buff and on the move, i certainly was using lightning bolt in MoP in pvp, and knowing you can keep that 15 yard gap while kiting melee to cast it rather than the melee closing 15 yards by the time you've cast it and interrupting you.

It just didn't matter, it's a filler, the sole reason to cast it was because you couldn't do anything else, the majority of your damage came from Lava Burst and to a certain degree Fulmination.

Elemental isn't about total damage, it's about pressure, whenever you apply pressure you're not casting LB.

[Socialhealer]

It just didn't matter, it's a filler, the sole reason to cast it was because you couldn't do anything else, the majority of your damage came from Lava Burst and to a certain degree Fulmination.

Elemental isn't about total damage, it's about pressure, whenever you apply pressure you're not casting LB.

did you play MoP? lightning bolt wasn't such a wet noodle like it is now, it actually did damage, and im pretty sure it generated lightning shield stacks so yeah you're building up pressure.

it's not the dream of casting CL into a stack of people and instantly getting 9 stacks for a full fulmination but you can't have the best case scenario everytime.

[Kralljin]

did you play MoP? lightning bolt wasn't such a wet noodle like it is now, it actually did damage, and im pretty sure it generated lightning shield stacks so yeah you're building up pressure.

MoP was about getting as many Lvb procs as possible. (despite the 5 second FS CD.)
The issue of Elemental was that it's damage was basically not stoppable unless you perma dispelled all FS dots.

You just couldn't handle 3-4 back to back procs of Lava Surge on a constant basis coming out of nowhere without blowing some sort of defensive CD, then throw in some EotE procs and there you go.

Of course LB generated LS stacks, but they didn't deal damage until you hit ES, which would be at a moment you want to continue to pressure or start to pressure.
And the damage of LB was irrelevant for the LS stack generation.

[Coffeh]

Flame shock has a 6 second cooldown on alpha? Is that...is that real? That can't last, right? That's horrible.

[Mordog]

Flame shock has a 6 second cooldown on alpha? Is that...is that real? That can't last, right? That's horrible.

In Alpha since yesterday.
Just lvl 111

Yes Flame shock has a 6 Second CD at 18 second duration ( no Maesltrom costs) - feels not good.


Maelstrom gain from IceFury is nerfed from live ( from 24 to 15). it doesnt feel good.
CL grants 3 MS for every target hit and EQ consumes 75MS - thats a huge difference - 50% less gain from CL but 50% more need for EQ...

Not able to get a proper IceFury build is frustrating.
I dont care to much about EB or Totemmastery for the IF Build.

But it feels a proper IF build needs Echo and Master of the Elements.
You cant get Echo in the IF Buid at the moment, so there is not much of gain in Master of the Elements.

Even if you dont consider Leggys, on live you can have 3 different Builds ( ASC - LR - IF) that feel good to play with minor other Talent Variation.
But that was not right at the start of Legion, a later balance Patch achived that.

BfA atm feels like at the start of Legion - promising but at the end not satisfying.

I dont understand why ES needs a fixed cost.

To play Elemental with a newly made 110 Char ( wich surely is not nearly as good Equiped as our Stat Squies mains) is not a good expirience.
They did a good Jop with the secundary stats. ( 23%Crit 12%Haste 45Mastery 14% Vers on greeen gear)

And as long as we dont know what the Azerita Armor Traits will change we cant judge to hard, every start of an EXP feels much worse than the middle or end expirience.
But there are also a bunch of things where i strongly disagree and hope for change.

Example given:

Echo of the Elements - Ice Fury and Master of the Elements needs to be able to get picked together - it feels so wrong not able to pick all 3 Talents for IF.
Echo of the Elements would be a great baseline passive!

Elemental Attunement: It is a straight 20% Buff to ES and EQ - i am fine with a passive flat dmg increase - but why is Frost Shock left out?
Blizzard could just ad the Frost Shock to the talent, or, if they fear it would lead to much into a cookie cutter builde, place IF and Elemental Attunement into the same Tier.



If you want me to try/test anything just ask here, even many invites got send out yesterday or so, maybe there a some who are intressted into some specific things.

[mkultra55]

In Alpha since yesterday.
Just lvl 111

.........................................

I'm with you on most of your comments. It would be nice to have 3 viable Builds with each focused on one Element.
It's close right now but your points target a few of the flaws.

The Lightning Build feels OK..
Exposed Elements, Totem Mastery, Storm Ele, High Voltage and Stormkeeper work well together. It feels like it's headed in the right direction especially when the Storm Elemental is active. The machine gun style really fits.
Earth Shock feels weak right now though. Either Maelstrom generation or ES damage needs to be Buffed.

The Lavaburst build needs some work though..
Ele Blast, Echo, Master of the Elements and Ascendance are decent but could use some more synergy. It would be nice if Master of the Elements also effected your next Fire spell to work better with Ascendance.
I'd also like to see LMT also put Flame Shock on effected targets ala Volcanic Rage to give more Lava Surge procs.

And I'm with you on Icefury. The build is lacking but doesn't need huge fixes.
Elemental Attunement needs to effect Frost Shock.
Echo and Ele Blast should be swapped.

I'm not worried about numbers right now since all that will come.

[dopefishz]

Can't Blizzard just implement MoP Elemental and let us have fun with that ?
Aside from the ultra low dmg on alpha right now, it just feels weird to play, IMO.

[mkultra55]

Can't Blizzard just implement MoP Elemental and let us have fun with that ?
Aside from the ultra low dmg on alpha right now, it just feels weird to play, IMO.

It feels like it does on Live to me which I actually prefer to MoP.
I just miss all the Artifact perks that weren't baked into the spec for BFA.

[Mordog]

I dont want LB while moving back.

I want Gust of Wind back.

LB while moving is a brainless action in fights, i cant feel proud or statisfied if i do well because i can´t really do something wrrong at first place.

Gust of Wind give you a choice.
Do i want to use it now to dodge an attack/ void fiel art of dmg, or do i want it to save it for some seconds to use it as a cap closer / faster movement to the other side of a terrain and save a instand that i can press while in mid Air to keep up some DPS...
Or other things - you know self best what you used if for in different fights...

Our BFA Ghostwolf Talent is fine in some cases like Imonar i guess and some M+ situations, in other situations i would rather have Gust.. why cant i get the choice Blizzard?

Tier 30 Talents:
Spirit Wolf - Gust of Wind - Windrush Totem

that is how i image a "good" Talent row, at least for Utility / Movement Tiers.

Pure DPS Talents may have other variables you need to consider as well.

[foos]

meh IMO they should make Elemental Blast a baseline finisher that works something like a charged cast spell. Longer you hold the button the more malestrom it consumes, with a full charge of 100 malestrom lasting maybe ~2.5 cast before haste. Then just tweak the numbers and effects as % of max charged. It should have a flavor effect of all 3 elements too imo not just RNG buff. Maybe like a dot + slow + attack speed reduction (flame shock/frost shock/earth shock) or be more creative.

Then add a IMP Elemental Blast talent that adds more stuff to it?

I think the whole elemental fantasy is kind of misrepresented. Why cant ele do what Thrall did to Grommash? The whole combo of lifting foe up in air the an earth hand grab + giant thunder finish.

[Kralljin]

Spirit Wolf - Gust of Wind - Windrush Totem

Putting a skill like Gust of Wind on a talent tree is simply stupid unless the other options are extremely powerful as well.

Even in your talent row, Gust of Wind would be automatic choice for PvE Content, Spirit wolf might only see fringe use in PvP at best.
Putting a groupwide utility skill next to it feels extremely punishing, in general putting group support skills next to purely personal options is just plain awkward if you have no proper baseline ability on your own in that category, you want to take the group skill to help your group but you cripple yourself to do so, not fun.

They're doing a similiar thing on the mage side with Shimmer, only Ice Flows may (which is Frost only) stand up to Shimmer but still pretty much every mage goes for Shimmer in the vast majority of cases.
Might as well put Disengage on the talent tree for Hunters, unless the other two choices are Dps talents the choice to go will be Disengage.

Any Skill that basically moves you from point A to to point B very quickly are so powerful that Blizzard does not need to bother to put them on the talent tree, they'll be the to go choice always (as far as PvE is concerned).

Look at Druid Tier 2 for Feral / Balance / Resto, who in their right mind would pick Renewal outside of a Patchwerk fight?