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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    Uhhh...yes. Read some other Class forums or maybe play something else for a change.
    I read other class forums as well, but that rarely actually expands the horizon on that matter, mostly it just exposes you to the bias of other people.

    And my Warrior / Hunter / Monk still have Charge,Disengage and Roll on Beta, so yeah, if i had to choose between the defensive artifact traits and those abilities, i'd go with mobility.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    It's really going to make you feel better if Ele is universally understood to be the worst spec going into BFA huh?
    Tell us what prize we're going to win. What an amazingly useful line of discussion.
    No idea, you started this discussion with defensive artifacts, which by the way has nothing to do with anything i said.
    The one commonality between these two are that both are being removed, that's about it.

    Because implore you to read those posts again, i haven't mentioned defensive capabilities.

    As i don't think Shaman defense is an issue in BfA unless we get another ToS, as Astral shift is still decent, you can go for PE for another 40% reduce, get Nature's Guardian as safety net and if things get hairy, another 20% from Spirit wolf at the expense of Dps.

    So if neccessary, i can achieve like 70% damage reduction, won't matter if the encounter requires true immunities but still, Elemental defense is not as bad as in Legion.

    More defense is nice, but it's not there to properly replace Gust of Wind in my view.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    No one is saying it's all fine. No one disagrees that losing Gust sucks. I just think you need to expand your horizons a bit and play some other classes to see that no one seems happy right now.
    It's amazing how people read into "this sucks" to "this is the worst spec ever".

    Rich people also sometimes complain about being treated unfairly by life itself, which seems rather proposterous from the perspective of poor people, question is, who is right? Perspective and context matters.
    Simply because other classes are unhappy doesn't neccessarily mean they are as bad as X/Y/Z.
    Warlocks also cried during MoP about various shit, despite them being at the strongest state ever.

    I'm simply going to quote myself here, it sums up my stance on this entire matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    But i don't think any class lost an ability on the level of Gust of Wind.
    If you think otherwise, please state it, but stop this rambling about defensive artifact traits, i'll say it again, barring few exceptions they are not that impactful and still not on the level of usefulness as Gust of Wind was.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2018-06-10 at 09:58 PM.

  2. #562
    Stood in the Fire Icathian's Avatar
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    Imo, it really doesn't matter if you have 2000% DR, if you could spare all those CDs just by simply moving fast/blinking from point A to point B, which is what stuff that are baked in a lot of classes but not shaman, and shaman suffer the most from it.

    A lot of it could be solved by simply giving ele back the ability to cast LB on the move. It just feels like other specs have much less effort to survive.


    Stacking 10 different spells just to achieve the same defensive capability than another spec which can just press a button and be done with it will never be the same thing.

    But it seems that Blizzard just can't understand that, since they think that self rez is the same thing as cheat death etc.

  3. #563
    I am not an elemental shaman expert by any means but my initial impression of the spec after playing resto and enhancement a fair bit during Legion is that I really miss spiritwalkers grace on ele spec. Mobility really hampers it’s dps like none other spec I’ve played. Or have Earth shock balanced around 40/50 maelstrom rather than using all of it, then you could get 2/3 casts off while moving and lava surges. Also I am not a fan of flame shock using maelstrom, it should just have an average duration without that cost, or you should have a separate CD to empower your next shock (sort of like Thunder tea for MW)
    Last edited by Peacemoon; 2018-06-10 at 10:26 PM.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    No idea, you started this discussion with defensive artifacts, which by the way has nothing to do with anything i said.
    The one commonality between these two are that both are being removed, that's about it.............
    Right, I started the discussion by talking about how other classes are having similar concerns and how players of those classes feel they've lost power, defensives and self healing. Which is all true btw.

    Of course that triggered you. You feel so wronged by Blizzard that any hint that other players feel their Classes have lost some important things as well cannot be tolerated.
    And my Warrior / Hunter / Monk still have Charge,Disengage and Roll on Beta, so yeah, if i had to choose between the defensive artifact traits and those abilities, i'd go with mobility.
    So play one of those Classes and leave the rest of us to discuss our thoughts in peace? Your obsession with the loss of Gust is becoming frightening btw.

  5. #565
    Brewmaster Berthier's Avatar
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    the biggest issue is that mages have blink and immunity and one spec is allways dps whise op no to mention they can have cheat death to as fire mages double block as frost mages better blinks as arcan and when you look at warlocks even they have superior survival kits good movement tools ele now zero as a hard caster ghostwolf is shit they need to give ele grace back or while moving lightning bolt and yeah i know icefury is there and frostshock is not on gcd but this feels super weak when others press 1 button and are done with moving and can do everything better then you so the Homogenization argument failed here hard blizzard just loves to much mages hunters and warlock because they can do all better then boomies shadows or eles
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  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    mimimimimimimmimimi
    Yes yes you are totally right. Shaman can do nothing. Warlocks press one button to move somewhere which is the forward button. It all makes totally sense now.
    Thank you kind Sir for opening our eyes now. Have you ever seen a mythic raid from the inside because it surely feels like you know what you are talking about. I too hate it awlays to die when i have to interrupt a cast to sidestep mechanics. Maaan stupid instakill mechanics when we walk....
    PLS blizz listen to this genius!

  7. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solence View Post
    Yes yes you are totally right. Shaman can do nothing. Warlocks press one button to move somewhere which is the forward button. It all makes totally sense now.
    Thank you kind Sir for opening our eyes now. Have you ever seen a mythic raid from the inside because it surely feels like you know what you are talking about. I too hate it awlays to die when i have to interrupt a cast to sidestep mechanics. Maaan stupid instakill mechanics when we walk....
    PLS blizz listen to this genius!
    this was not a mimimi it was the truth the movement problem is since years there and they dont want to fix it
    i only compared ele to mage and warlock + hunter because both have answers for movement even for spread focusburst or singeltarget dmg fights i mean i am not maining a ele but i play it often when to much healers are in raid and i am playing this game since vanilla i was 90% of the time main healer i rly dont care much about dps i am watching since the beginning and blizz is only pushing the same classes/speccs this is what i cant understand
    i dont care about oneshot mechanics they are good but not on every boss or so often like it was the case in ToS
    interrupting is easy i dont have problems with playing mechanics right even as a shaman sry to dissapoint you anyways have a good day stranger who complains about other peopels opinions
    Water is wet, the sky is blue and bees still produce enough honey to feed winnie the pooh

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    Right, I started the discussion by talking about how other classes are having similar concerns and how players of those classes feel they've lost power, defensives and self healing. Which is all true btw.
    I acknowledged that, Blizzard nerfed some outliners such as rogue.
    However after that, not much came from you except for Healing Elixir (which is not that impactful for raiding) and those defensive traits.
    And then you kept arguing that those defensive are actually super important - which they are not if you look at the general power of those and not just Frost Dk's.

    Because those defensive traits are a fart in the wind, that's the bottom line.

    With the exception of artifact abilities and a few traits, losing artifacts as a whole is not that impactful (speaking of actual gameplay not total numbers) - the majority of traits just boost certain abilities by a few %, that's all there is to it, due the stats squish you have to readjust the general feeling for numbers anyway.

    The sole reason why people in the first place noticed those issues on Beta was because during Alpha / early Beta mobs you were stuck on template characters with green gear and mobs were stronger than they are now on beta, of course people felt a loss at this point because on live you are used to blowing 5+ mobs out of the water with a single spell.
    Legion had the same shit going, i seriously struggled against mobs on 110 during Legion Beta as well, that's not unusual, that's part of the Beta cycle.

    What hurts are the impactful artifact abilities (Odyn's fury,Stormkeeper, Strike of the Windlord, etc.) and the legendaries, because the defensive ones were powerful as fuck for doing WQ's.
    On live, you just equip shit like Prydaz or Roots of Shaladrassil to solo an elite mob, on Beta, you can't, your class can do it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    Of course that triggered you. You feel so wronged by Blizzard that any hint that other players feel their Classes have lost some important things as well cannot be tolerated.
    Again, feel free to raise those abilities, simply because they got removed as well doesn't mean they're as useful as Gust of Wind.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    Your obsession with the loss of Gust is becoming frightening btw.
    I'd rather discuss actually impactful abilities, not freaking 13% less damage after disengage.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    So play one of those Classes and leave the rest of us to discuss our thoughts in peace?
    No, because i like Shaman, it's just that Blizzard has the habit of screwing with Dps Shaman as far as mythic raiding is concerned.
    And that's not just me saying, high level mythic guilds rarely feature Dps Shaman - one at best, and those guys usually need to have an alt at the ready for certain encounters.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2018-06-11 at 02:54 PM.

  9. #569
    Elemental Shaman (and Restoration) is the most exciting spec for me so far. Something I thought I'd never say because I did not like Elemental in WoD and Legion that much. I really like the different builds you can have (either "fire" or "lightning).
    - Battle for Azeroth is the Michael Bay of WoW expansions -

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finloneous View Post
    This. Ive been looking into other classes because mine just doesnt feel good or seem to be going in the direction id like. Amazingly enough every other class i look into seems to be mimicking every other class. Not enough damage, survivability issues, class feels clunky. Its all the same everywhere.
    Fury Warriors are now looking pretty fine - very mobile (extremely mobile in PvP is specced that way), good damage (subject to tuning of course), engaging and fun rotation, decent self-healing while in melee.

    Arms is okay - it seemed pretty good until the Fury revamp, and now it's definitely the plain girl in a pair. It works, it feels like Arms should (IMO), but it's not exciting like Fury.

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Fury Warriors are now looking pretty fine - very mobile (extremely mobile in PvP is specced that way), good damage (subject to tuning of course), engaging and fun rotation, decent self-healing while in melee.

    Arms is okay - it seemed pretty good until the Fury revamp, and now it's definitely the plain girl in a pair. It works, it feels like Arms should (IMO), but it's not exciting like Fury.
    I can assure you once you played a raid tier of fury you gonna need a new hand/wrist combo. Whats fun in the beginning will be a pain in the ass after a while.

  12. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solence View Post
    I can assure you once you played a raid tier of fury you gonna need a new hand/wrist combo. Whats fun in the beginning will be a pain in the ass after a while.
    I played Ret when it stacked Haste and was GCD locked. I reckon I can deal. Not sure I want to though - Fury's never been my style. I'm a big, slow 2-hander kind of guy for melee - Arms, Ret, the old 2-hander Frost build.

  13. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Elemental Shaman (and Restoration) is the most exciting spec for me so far. Something I thought I'd never say because I did not like Elemental in WoD and Legion that much. I really like the different builds you can have (either "fire" or "lightning).
    Have you actually played the BFA version of elemental so far? Generally curious

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  14. #574
    Barackoshama just released a beta video which basically shows ele shamans topping meters in raids and dungeons (outside of demo locks). Incoming Synapse Shock nerf!

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanknasty View Post
    Barackoshama just released a beta video which basically shows ele shamans topping meters in raids and dungeons (outside of demo locks). Incoming Synapse Shock nerf!
    To be fair, the tooltip says you get one stack per target up to 5, instead you get one for every LB / Overload you fire off.
    In other words, the way the tooltip is worded, you should only have a single stack on a pure ST encounter.

    So yeah, i'd call it a fix tbh, unless they nerf the int bonus by 80%, but then you might as well just give a flat int value.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2018-06-13 at 02:58 PM.

  16. #576
    Yeah cause blizz fucked up and they just relized that 2 months before launch

    and from what have heard the class developers are pretty split up on how to design the classes

  17. #577
    I saw brakoshama video, holeee fook that is such a boring rotation spamming lightning bolt. Is the lava build any good? The main reason i mained elemental is for dotting enemies for insta lava bursts, that is one of my fav mechanics. Anybody know if there is a class with similar mechanic?

  18. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by elcapone View Post
    I saw brakoshama video, holeee fook that is such a boring rotation spamming lightning bolt. Is the lava build any good? The main reason i mained elemental is for dotting enemies for insta lava bursts, that is one of my fav mechanics. Anybody know if there is a class with similar mechanic?
    Afflic Lock with Nightfall. Your Corruption DOT will proc instant Shadowbolts. But it's 3 ppm, so not as common as Lava Surge.

    If you want a ton of procs, Demo Lock also gets a ton of procs for instacast Demon Bolts due to imps dying. This is more on the frequency of Surge.

  19. #579
    The Unstoppable Force
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    So Ion just said that, sure, elemental is in a bad place, and they might fix it in 8.1, to a degree.... Fucking yay -_-

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  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    So Ion just said that, sure, elemental is in a bad place, and they might fix it in 8.1, to a degree.... Fucking yay -_-

    Jep, i saw it as well...

    Like that was not the case the last few addons...

    Really frustrating how we eles have to wait all the time.


    BUT if they "fix" Ele, like they did with the first major Legion patch i am looking forward to it, Legin overhaul was great.

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