Ele Shaman Early Beta datamining spellchanges

[Psidum]

I wonder if Blizz is going to slightly overtune the numbers for the specs in question to help make them attractive for the first Tier. That would create other issues of course. It's going to be a roller coaster ride for the first half of the xpac it seems.

Honestly I hope they do. Since true balance is never going to happen why not let ele have some time in the sun.

[Deleted]

Doesn't this always happen to Elemental though? From what I remember they almost always end up clunky/badly tuned at the start of an expansion, Blizzard tries some numbers tuning and then they try to fix the bigger problems about halfway through the expansion (which is too late already).

[Socialhealer]

If ele is suddenly in such a bad place, then why don't they fucking just revert it to the Legion version jesus christ.

revert it to MoP ele shaman.

watch subs increase 250k from people wanting to play a real fun working spec instead of rerolling/quitting.

[mkultra55]

revert it to MoP ele shaman.

watch subs increase 250k from people wanting to play a real fun working spec instead of rerolling/quitting.

How many would leave at the same time? How about all the players who didn't like MoP Ele but love the Legion iteration?

[Socialhealer]

How many would leave at the same time? How about all the players who didn't like MoP Ele but love the Legion iteration?

so about 3 people? so a 249.997 sub gain, fucking worth it.

[Mordog]

so about 3 people? so a 249.997 sub gain, fucking worth it.

MoP Elemental was not better than Legion, thats my opinion, dont dare to question my opinion.

I think the most of the people who say MoP was better say that because of LB while moving.


I dont like LB while moving, you know why?
Because it means we are balanced around it and it shifts our capabilitys of doing well any many situation to doing , maybe, well at movement fights.

I dont want Elemental to go down the path to a low skil cap specialisation.

I just want Options wich will alow me to adapt to the situation, and if played well it must be viable.
If i play movment better than a nother Elemental i want to be ahead, if LB while moving would be a thing again, how should any Ele perform meaningfull better on movement than other Eles.

[woopytywoop]

I think the most of the people who say MoP was better say that because of LB while moving.

People who say MoP was better say it because they felt a lot more useful and contributed more to their group success compared to Legion elemental.

In terms of dps rotation I like Legion better as you have more viable builds to play with, however in MoP I did feel a lot more useful to my group.

[dcc626]

so about 3 people? so a 249.997 sub gain, fucking worth it.

i like that you use a scientific approach to figuring out numbers.

[Socialhealer]

MoP Elemental was not better than Legion, thats my opinion, dont dare to question my opinion.

I think the most of the people who say MoP was better say that because of LB while moving.


I dont like LB while moving, you know why?
Because it means we are balanced around it and it shifts our capabilitys of doing well any many situation to doing , maybe, well at movement fights.

I dont want Elemental to go down the path to a low skil cap specialisation.

I just want Options wich will alow me to adapt to the situation, and if played well it must be viable.
If i play movment better than a nother Elemental i want to be ahead, if LB while moving would be a thing again, how should any Ele perform meaningfull better on movement than other Eles.

is that it?

not that ascendance was a proper power house of a cooldown OR
stormlash totem utility
healing tide utility
ancestral guidance being 3 times better and being actual utility
shamanistic rage giving elemental a proper survival
chain lightning spam NOT being clunky AoE and if mobs are kited you're not watching them all run out of EQ and your dps vanish
spiritwalkers grace meaning you had a period where you could do anything and not get fucked on dps, spamming only lightning bolt while moving allowed us to deal some damage where as now once you're out of maelstrom you're just doing zero dps.
could talent for double capacitor totem or double tremor totem even more utility!

but don't worry the shaman % playerbase plummeted after MoP because of WoD(worst iteration of elemental) and didn't recover in legion due to design, so i've only the playerbase as my proof MoP elemental was better, oh that and just about every other elemental who's played the last 10 years always agrees MoP was the pinnacle of fun and design, i'll give you that legion has been the second best but the ultra high mobile mythic fights and survival cooldowns required has made it very annoying to play elemental, if they gave some better defensive's and a bit more mobility i could put legion on par with MoP.

[freddy090909]

but don't worry the shaman % playerbase plummeted after MoP because of WoD(worst iteration of elemental) and didn't recover in legion due to design

I do agree that the design quality has gone down (and BfA is a low point to me), but I'd say performance was a much bigger factor in why no one is playing Elemental anymore. It basically became an AoE focused (e.g. typically bottom tier on any important fights), zero utility spec as soon as WoD hit. And, people are, understandably so, playing the meta much more now.

[Nyel]

One main reason why Elemental didn't click for more is the super boring and weak Lightning Bolt spam. The skill feels so underwhelming without Stormkeeper.

[mkultra55]

One main reason why Elemental didn't click for more is the super boring and weak Lightning Bolt spam. The skill feels so underwhelming without Stormkeeper.

I agree that LB feels weak but isn't that the case for all builders and isn't builder/spender Blizzard's new favorite design?

[Nyel]

I agree that LB feels weak but isn't that the case for all builders and isn't builder/spender Blizzard's new favorite design?

You're right, I just remember a time where LB wasn't hitting like a wet noodle.

[Kalisandra]

You're right, I just remember a time where LB wasn't hitting like a wet noodle.

That was also a time when Lava Burst's CD was a fixed period, until Lava Surge was added, and the main skill was knowing if you could afford to weave in the odd Chain Lightning if there was a gap that was too small to fit a LB into, or whehter you shoul cast the LB and push back the LvB, or whether you should just wait for the LvB to come up. And knowing what you sustain rotation was compared to your max-DPS. And then knowing how the rotation changed with a Haste proccing trinket and/or Herolust. It was a very different game back then, and I don't think we're ever going back to it. I do miss LB hurting and LvB landing like a freight train though.

[Rezhka]

is that it?

not that ascendance was a proper power house of a cooldown OR
stormlash totem utility
healing tide utility
ancestral guidance being 3 times better and being actual utility
shamanistic rage giving elemental a proper survival
chain lightning spam NOT being clunky AoE and if mobs are kited you're not watching them all run out of EQ and your dps vanish
spiritwalkers grace meaning you had a period where you could do anything and not get fucked on dps, spamming only lightning bolt while moving allowed us to deal some damage where as now once you're out of maelstrom you're just doing zero dps.
could talent for double capacitor totem or double tremor totem even more utility!

I agree that we have many utilities back on MoP. And I also agree Ascendance was a real deal CD. I agree spamming CL like mad feels really good. But back then CL jump range was shit.

About mobility tho, later on BFA you could just spam FrS freely on the move. The damage is a bit lower than LB considering it a free insta cast spell, and also slowing adds (or players at pvp) so no complaint there. It's much better than mobile-LB since it still can be interrupted and not slowing.

[mkultra55]

....

About mobility tho, later on BFA you could just spam FrS freely on the move. The damage is a bit lower than LB considering it a free insta cast spell, and also slowing adds (or players at pvp) so no complaint there. It's much better than mobile-LB since it still can be interrupted and not slowing.

Yeah. I'm a fan of the new Frost Shock. Especially with Echo and MotE specced.

[Venziir]

Yeah. I'm a fan of the new Frost Shock. Especially with Echo and MotE specced.

Just logged on to the PTR to try this, and you're right! It actually felt pretty good (not talking about damage, but purely playstyle). It wasn't somewhat fast and engaging and weaving fire, lightning AND frost made me feel like a proper elementalist.

[mkultra55]

Just logged on to the PTR to try this, and you're right! It actually felt pretty good (not talking about damage, but purely playstyle). It wasn't somewhat fast and engaging and weaving fire, lightning AND frost made me feel like a proper elementalist.

It makes Icefury incredibly easy (maybe too easy) to use but I'm OK with that.
At least it solves the issue of how to balance Icefury against lost Earth Shock's prior to the change.

It also means less face tanking while leveling if we do Lava Burst then Frost Shock as an opener. I find I don't use Lightning Bolt that often for quest mobs since they're dead in 2 Lavabursts and 2 Frost Shocks more often than not.

[Mordog]

It makes Icefury incredibly easy (maybe too easy) to use but I'm OK with that.
At least it solves the issue of how to balance Icefury against lost Earth Shock's prior to the change.

It also means less face tanking while leveling if we do Lava Burst then Frost Shock as an opener. I find I don't even use Lightning Bolt for quest mobs.

Yes, but i still think Echo should be baseline.

If Echo stays a talent it will produce cookie cutter buildes.

If you want to play IceFury,you need to take Master of the Elements and Echo.
And if this talent combination is , nuber wise, not strong, the talent becomes trap talents...

Also for Exposed Elements, if you want to play with that talent, i dont see a reason why you dont want to take High Voltage and Unlimited Power ( maybe SK for M+ Trash)

It is not that i dont "like" the idea of 2 or 3 strong Talent buildes, but the elemental Talent tree seems so akward to me.
Why should i want t otake SE if it replaces FE. Later in the EXP with more base Haste i will get very fast under the GCD, so the moste stacks are wasted.

Earthen Rage doesnt scale proper, Ice Fury seems to be weak, so PE is the going to Talent alone the self CD of the Earth Elemental is worth taking it for M+ and Raiding, even in PVP i think it can be good.

And so on...
some Talents have no proper interaction with them or the Elemental or seems to be the go to combination.
There is just to much that seems unfinished und not well tought out.

[mkultra55]

Yes, but i still think Echo should be baseline.
If Echo stays a talent it will produce cookie cutter buildes..

It's almost impossible to make talents that synergize well in multiple ways. I'm fine with having builds built around each element even if it seems cookie cutter.

I also wouldn't make assumptions based on the current state of numbers tuning. T90 is the movement row and all of the choices fit the theme especally with the Frost Shock change.