BfA Alpha - Hunter Changes

[Mahmeya]

Now, the question is: how many beta builds before the MM changes are done, because it seems to not be in this one...

[secondratetech]

Now, the question is: how many beta builds before the MM changes are done, because it seems to not be in this one...

This weeks patch was delayed due to the holiday. The comments are for, at the earliest, the patch after this weeks.

[Aesde]

play BM. It's mostly the same in bfa and the other 2 are getting revamped.

Not a wise advise.

Current BM is a dead last at Antorus.

[cafecito820]

Not a wise advise.

Current BM is a dead last at Antorus.

Because sims always equal reality, and screw fun, right?

[Deleted]

Also, he is levelling it ready for BFA, pretty sure noone cares whats viable in Antorus anymore do they?

[Aesde]

Because sims always equal reality, and screw fun, right?

Because it’s the reality, check the warcraftlogs.
Be a dead weight for your raid is it fun?

Also, he is levelling it ready for BFA, pretty sure noone cares whats viable in Antorus anymore do they?

Bm has almost no changes at BfA.
And Blizz cleary said at Legion by their actions, that’ full mobile BM can’t be a top dps.

[Dracodraco]

BM was a totally fine choice for progress (and, subsequently, farm) in Antorus. BM provided better snap-burst on fights like Varimathras and Command where the only thing that really mattered was killing adds before they got casts off, BM on Argus did *very good* damage in P1/2 because of constant forced movement and good scaling with the crit/mastery buff (insofar that I was usually in the top 2-3 if I didn't have to drop my stacks in P1/2 during progress in a guild that is full of people that performs better than me damage-wise), along with the legendary bracers for early argus kills allowing for double-immune on chains, versus just a single one (MM did do more last-phase damage if allowed to not target-switch onto the modules, but again, that's sort of points for BM being able to with no loss).

Saying it was (or currently, is) dead weight is silly. There's huge advantages to being mobile that can't be directly translated into "BUT YOU DO LESS DPS!" - a MM hunter having to escort people with fears on Argus would lose DPS in P1/3, but I don't, so I just do it automatically and nobody else has to care about the mechanic. Being able to immune shit every green platform on Imonar due to my bracers giving me a 2-minute turtle helps immensely clearing stuff. There's a reason people brought like, FIVE fucking rogues to a fight such as Avatar, and it wasn't because they all did superior damage on the encounter - it was because of their utility. The same goes for BM. The hit is noticeable on turret encounters where you get to stand still and not do anything important to the raid, but honestly, if that's what you wanted to do, mages or warlocks are a better choice while also having better survivability.


FWIW, I've done all the mythic PTR tests, and BM hunter as-is was working just fine and doing competitive damage - of course, tuning pending, but for people who hope it remains relatively unchanged, they can rejoice. The main issue remains that the new "dire beast" no longer has the bandaid of Stomp making it castable no matter your pets position - you need the pet in range to fire it off due to the frenzy effect (just like if you don't take Stomp on live right now), and taking Stomp doesn't change that.

[Jurassic]

FWIW, I've done all the mythic PTR tests, and BM hunter as-is was working just fine and doing competitive damage - of course, tuning pending, but for people who hope it remains relatively unchanged, they can rejoice. The main issue remains that the new "dire beast" no longer has the bandaid of Stomp making it castable no matter your pets position - you need the pet in range to fire it off due to the frenzy effect (just like if you don't take Stomp on live right now), and taking Stomp doesn't change that.

Mastery scaling is still a problem between hunter and pets that gets worse as your gear gets better. It would be nice if they took a look at our defensives and consider bringing spirit bond back.

[Blk]

Mastery scaling is still a problem between hunter and pets that gets worse as your gear gets better. It would be nice if they took a look at our defensives and consider bringing spirit bond back.

They gave spirit bond to survival, so I doubt they will give it to BM. They want people to play survival and marks, not BM.

[Dracodraco]

Mastery scaling is still a problem between hunter and pets that gets worse as your gear gets better. It would be nice if they took a look at our defensives and consider bringing spirit bond back.

Not really sure I feel BM needs more defensives in raid than mobility, healthstone, exhilaration (with natural mending) and turtle tbfh. You can basically cycle an instant top-me-off heal on yourself every minute with exhil/HS/turtle for backup. Not to mention you can pick between 10% more HP, Leech and movement speed from your pet (10% HP being a quite big deal survivability-wise, especially as HS/Exhil scales with your HP).

[Ifritlol]

Not really sure I feel BM needs more defensives in raid than mobility, healthstone, exhilaration (with natural mending) and turtle tbfh. You can basically cycle an instant top-me-off heal on yourself every minute with exhil/HS/turtle for backup. Not to mention you can pick between 10% more HP, Leech and movement speed from your pet (10% HP being a quite big deal survivability-wise, especially as HS/Exhil scales with your HP).

10% HP is nice. But leech is a joke since KC and Dire Frenzy (Barber Shot or whatever) do not heal the hunter. So in reality it is more like 4% leech or less.

[Dracodraco]

10% HP is nice. But leech is a joke since KC and Dire Frenzy (Barber Shot or whatever) do not heal the hunter. So in reality it is more like 4% leech or less.

I mean, sure. Doesn't make 10% hp any less good as a passive defensive. It's basically the same as a 10% reduction for all intents and purposes, considering overhealing from hots etc.

[Ifritlol]

I mean, sure. Doesn't make 10% hp any less good as a passive defensive. It's basically the same as a 10% reduction for all intents and purposes, considering overhealing from hots etc.

That's what I meant HP passive is the only one worth ''taking''. The extreme example where you would not would be if your raid have no other sourses of Bloodlust, but it's really unlikely to happen.

[butchh]

so. what spec is best guys?? . i heard bm is but very boring spec, mash buttons that light up.

[cafecito820]

Because it’s the reality, check the warcraftlogs.

Yea, and I'm sure most hunters are consistently competing against top 10% percentile raiders every time they play too.

Get a grip man. Just because a spec isn't rocking the top of the charts doesn't mean there's something wrong or that someone shouldn't play it. Our BM hunters can both pull fantastic numbers throughout Antorus, but I guess that just means the rest of our raid sucks, huh?

[Jurassic]

Not really sure I feel BM needs more defensives in raid than mobility, healthstone, exhilaration (with natural mending) and turtle tbfh. You can basically cycle an instant top-me-off heal on yourself every minute with exhil/HS/turtle for backup. Not to mention you can pick between 10% more HP, Leech and movement speed from your pet (10% HP being a quite big deal survivability-wise, especially as HS/Exhil scales with your HP).

My defensive comment was actually pointed at mythic plus, especially at the high end.

[Dracodraco]

My defensive comment was actually pointed at mythic plus, especially at the high end.

Still don't see how we're lacking anything. An immunity, 12% more HP than everyone else baseline (I just logged on to check, it's apparantly 2% higher than I thought), and a baseline 30% instant-heal on a semi-short CD, along with a 20% damage reduction on a 3 minute CD.


Mages are about the same - a (worse, because they can't move during it and unless they start going elemental, don't have an elemental attacking their enemy during it) immunity, a semi-short heal (absorb, in mages case - weaker than ours but shorter cd), and depending on if they're fire or frost, they have either a reset of their immunity or a cheat death where BM just has a passive 12% hp+20% reduc. Considering their immunity is on a longer CD, I genuinely don't see the issue.

Shadow priests are worse off than we are - they have a 60% dmg reduc on a 2 min cd, and self-cast shields. That's it.

Boomkins have a 6% passive reduc (worse than our 10% health), a 1 min cd on a 20% reduc, and bear form (which grants them 25% hp during it but leaves them unable to attack, on demand). Again, immunity+selfheal+10% base HP isn't terrible in comparison.

Shamans get completely shafted with only a 40% reduc on a 1.5min cd, and the choice to spec into 5-20% reduc on ghost wolf (depending on how long they spend not attacking), at the cost of making their AOE stun worse (longer cd), and a 20% heal if they dip sub-35% HP (thus not helping them top themselves off before a hit, or preventing a KO).

The only ranged I can't really quantify properly is warlock, mainly because I have no concept of how good soul leech is (or drain life/soul, for that matter) as all our warlocks played demo during tests, due to broken implosion. BM Hunters have an immunity, a reduction, a selfheal and are just more durable than other ranged baseline; They're in a good spot. Be careful that you don't compare the *current* defensive metagame with the BFA one, where everything has been toned way the fuck down.

[Vellithe]

so. what spec is best guys?? . i heard bm is but very boring spec, mash buttons that light up.

There's only one button that lights up (Barbed Shot), and you shouldn't press it right away every single time it lights up (though most of the times you will, either because you don't want to risk wasting a second proc or because there's nothing better to press).

From what I'm seeing in the beta, the trend is for all specs across the board to be simplified and to have less RNG. But, from what I'm seeing in the beta, this is not as bad as it sounds. MM is still pretty uncomfortable, but SV seems to be more entertaining than Live's, though it can't hold a candle to WoD's SV.

BM is quite mindless right now, though. Still probably more fun than any other spec, too. Ranged with just instant casts is just too comfy, but I'd expect some heavy nerfs, as I'm not sure it was intended for level 110 green gear to have 100% uptime on Thrill of the Hunt, and having less Barbed Shot procs would make the spec feel slower. I don't know if it'd be worse for them to make it proc less or for them to balance us around it being 100% uptime. One of them makes the spec less fun, the other will probably result in some stupid crap like in WoD when they "punished" SV for having infinite movement by making it deal 20% less damage than everyone else on purpos.

[Bugg]

Noob question, maybe not in the right thread: what does is the Hunter 'pet management' done? Should I think of it as 2-3 buttons more to press, or is it more complicated, more simple?
During a raid or dungeon, how often or how careful will I watch the pet(s)?
Thanks.

[Vellithe]

Noob question, maybe not in the right thread: what does is the Hunter 'pet management' done? Should I think of it as 2-3 buttons more to press, or is it more complicated, more simple?
During a raid or dungeon, how often or how careful will I watch the pet(s)?
Thanks.

Pet management means having your pet be where it should be. Most players think of it as simply making it so the pet doesn't pull needless packs, but in reality it's about having the pet stick to the right target, be that the priority target or the target that's right in the middle (for maximum cleave AoE).

On Live, you can do most of in-combat pet management with good macros for your spells, so all that remains is being aware of where your pet is and what it is doing. And what I mean by that is: switching targets is expensive, just like it is for melee. You are a remote-controlled melee character. If your pet is within charging distance of the new target, switching with Kill Command will incur next to no cost (KC includes a "teleport"). On beta, Barbed Shot also includes the same movement effect.

Tbh, macros are good enough now and will be good enough in the future. Barbed Shot and Kill Command in BfA actually behave like they'd do on Live with macros, so it's all there by default. I'd add three more buttons, but you'll probably not use them very often:

1. "Stop attacking" button. You can just bind the Pet Passive button in the pet bar for this.
2. "Assist me" button. You can just bind the Pet Assist button on the pet bar for this. This is mostly to deactivate the previous button.
3. "Attack this" button. You'll need to macro /petattack for this.

I have not seen any uses for Pet Move on PvE, but there might be some for PvP (setting up ambushes? Idk, idc). Outside of these three buttons, I'd just suggest having the following on your normal ability macros: include a /petattack when the pet has no target (macro starting with /petattack [@pettarget,noexists]), include a pet attack before any ability that requires a target change (used on Live for Kill Command, not necessary in BfA).

All in all, pet management is about minimizing pet damage downtime due to movement and maximize pet damage through correct positioning for Beast Cleave AoE. You can achieve that by only having the pet switch targets when you can have it teleport (Blink Strikes available, or using Kill Command, or using KC/Barbed Shot on BfA, anything that causes the pet to move fast enough that you won't lose DPS from it moving) and always making sure the pet is as close to possible to the center of the pack for cleaving.

That's it in theory. In practice, you barely touch the three buttons I mentioned about, and having good macros for your normal abilities should cover most of the problems you'd find, so you barely have to do anything at all except being aware of what will happen with your pet. "attack this" button is also useful if your current pet target is about to die, as when that happens they'll usually happily run back to you, at least until you attack something else (they're not very smart, but you love them anyway).