Rogue 8.0 Discussion

[Msi]

How do you guys think about the alpha/beta changes so far?

[aarro]

Can somebody tell me how Outlaw is looking? I'm at work atm.

[Feali]

Can somebody tell me how Outlaw is looking? I'm at work atm.

Pretty much the same. Which worries me a bit but we're still early in the development cycle.

[RennRogue]

Anyone else see Dispatch for Assa and Find Weakness back for Sub and became EXTREMELY FUCKING EXCITED????????????????

[Epoxe]

Anyone else see Dispatch for Assa and Find Weakness back for Sub and became EXTREMELY FUCKING EXCITED????????????????

Love me some execute! Hoofuckinyah dispatch!

[elfporn]

Anyone else see Dispatch for Assa and Find Weakness back for Sub and became EXTREMELY FUCKING EXCITED????????????????

Yea, dispatch back is awesome. I loved that ability in WoD and what it did for the rotation when you hit execute phase. The only downside is that it’s in the same row as master poisoner.

In current iteration it looks like it will lead to a bleed build with a high value on vers and crit instead of mastery and crit...and the only reason i’d hate that is because it fucks up our relic choices(even though we probably won’t use them for very long when 8.0 hits) and might make exsanguinate the stronger talent over TB (i hate exsang with a passion)

FW back as a talent is a nightmare scenario for balance. Deeper shadows already replaced its functionality - there is no logical reason to bring it back unless they are replacing deeper shadows with FW to make people feel nice. Also, patch notes indicate it’s a 75% armor pen instead of 100%, so it will probably translate to something like a 25% dmg increase while it’s up.

If they aren’t replacing deeper shadows with fw? Sub becomes even more burst reliant, even more reliant on dfa and SoD burst windows executed flawlessly. Not too appealing. Maybe with fw we can drop deeper shadows for high fw uptime, i liked that rotation back in early/mid legion.

[Varolyn]

Yea, dispatch back is awesome. I loved that ability in WoD and what it did for the rotation when you hit execute phase. The only downside is that it’s in the same row as master poisoner.

In current iteration it looks like it will lead to a bleed build with a high value on vers and crit instead of mastery and crit...and the only reason i’d hate that is because it fucks up our relic choices(even though we probably won’t use them for very long when 8.0 hits) and might make exsanguinate the stronger talent over TB (i hate exsang with a passion)

FW back as a talent is a nightmare scenario for balance. Deeper shadows already replaced its functionality - there is no logical reason to bring it back unless they are replacing deeper shadows with FW to make people feel nice. Also, patch notes indicate it’s a 75% armor pen instead of 100%, so it will probably translate to something like a 25% dmg increase while it’s up.

If they aren’t replacing deeper shadows with fw? Sub becomes even more burst reliant, even more reliant on dfa and SoD burst windows executed flawlessly. Not too appealing. Maybe with fw we can drop deeper shadows for high fw uptime, i liked that rotation back in early/mid legion.

Bleeds scale with mastery now too, so that doesn't automatically make MP the go to talent at higher gear levels now. Mastery should be desired for both bleed and poison builds in BfA, though you are probably correct in that dispatch would increase the value of crit quite a bit. I Personally don't have an issue with exsang, I do have an issue with hemo but looking at wowhead's, notes dispatch will be replacing hemo and that is a very good sign. Idk how dispatch is going to fit though, it could very well just be a leveling/questing talent but it could work with tb or exsang I suppose.

About sub, FW replaces Weaponmaster in that tier which imo is a very good sign. I personally would rather have symbols as a talent and FW baseline, or Symbols removed and FW baseline but that probably won't happen. You can spec into both Dark shadow and FW in this first alpha build. And IDK, you may have liked sub in early legion or NH but about 95% of sub pvp and pve'rs hated that FW was gone and I'm sure many of them will be happy to see that it has returned.

[elfporn]

Bleeds scale with mastery now too, so that doesn't automatically make MP the go to talent at higher gear levels now. Mastery should be desired for both bleed and poison builds in BfA, though you are probably correct in that dispatch would increase the value of crit quite a bit. I Personally don't have an issue with exsang, I do have an issue with hemo but looking at wowhead's, notes dispatch will be replacing hemo and that is a very good sign. Idk how dispatch is going to fit though, it could very well just be a leveling/questing talent but it could work with tb or exsang I suppose.

About sub, FW replaces Weaponmaster in that tier which imo is a very good sign. I personally would rather have symbols as a talent and FW baseline, or Symbols removed and FW baseline but that probably won't happen. You can spec into both Dark shadow and FW in this first alpha build. And IDK, you may have liked sub in early legion or NH but about 95% of sub pvp and pve'rs hated that FW was gone and I'm sure many of them will be happy to see that it has returned.

When did bleeds start scaling with mastery? I think i’ve missed something.

In WoD dispatch sped up the rotation significantly - at execute phase you could almost become gcd capped.

For sub, i liked the smoother less bursty playstyle in early legion(with its long term rotation planning), as compared to the way it is now. The loss of FW was never the issue - people in WoD liked the setup and burst window playstyle tied into the ability to squeeze in as much FW uptime as possible. They shifted to a faster paced, but smoother playstyle that relied less on burst and more on execution and planning, and they fucked it up on release with some clunky shit like no bar swapping and SD needing an open GCD to use, later on, right before they revamped talent trees to add in dark shadows, it played fine, but there was no variety in the spec, they added that with dark shadows/deeper shadows.

I detest the way sub plays right now with DFA. Also, FW doesn’t replace weaponmaster on the talent calc, it replaces master of sub iirc

Anyways, sub might be interesting to me if not using DFA becomes viable again

[Varolyn]

When did bleeds start scaling with mastery? I think i’ve missed something.

In WoD dispatch sped up the rotation significantly - at execute phase you could almost become gcd capped.

For sub, i liked the smoother less bursty playstyle in early legion(with its long term rotation planning), as compared to the way it is now. The loss of FW was never the issue - people in WoD liked the setup and burst window playstyle tied into the ability to squeeze in as much FW uptime as possible. They shifted to a faster paced, but smoother playstyle that relied less on burst and more on execution and planning, and they fucked it up on release with some clunky shit like no bar swapping and SD needing an open GCD to use, later on, right before they revamped talent trees to add in dark shadows, it played fine, but there was no variety in the spec, they added that with dark shadows/deeper shadows.

I detest the way sub plays right now with DFA. Also, FW doesn’t replace weaponmaster on the talent calc, it replaces master of sub iirc

Anyways, sub might be interesting to me if not using DFA becomes viable again

"Mastery: Potent Assassin Increases the damage done by your poisons and bleeds by 13.0%"

Taken right from wowhead's 8.0 patch notes. It's on mmo-champion's notes as well.

Going back to dispatch, I can actually see it fitting with the new venom rush talent. Right now it only affects mutilate, but I think it would make sense if it were to affect dispatch as well if you spec into it. The new venom rush causes mut to refund 5 energy when used on a poisoned target, and mut will cost 5 less energy baseline. If this new venom rush affects dispatch, it can create a build for assassination that is faster but also more consistent in damage.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

remove roll the bones.
remove roll the bones.
remove roll the bones.
How many people have to say it Blizzard?!

[omeomorfismo]

oh god, i hated that meaningless shift+mutilate with passion.
i can only hope that it will be worse than the other 2 choices =(

anyway i dont understand. is kingsbane gone?
that will be sad D:

[Critical92]

Yes artifact abilities will go away once we drop the weapon.

Edit: some specs get theirs as talents or something, but most abilities that just do damage and add nothing else will go.

[ornichi]

Yea, dispatch back is awesome. I loved that ability in WoD and what it did for the rotation when you hit execute phase.

U mean "press Y instead of X alongside 1 button for 30% dps increase"?

[Feali]

The Blade Flurry change is interesting

[elfporn]

U mean "press Y instead of X alongside 1 button for 30% dps increase"?

Yep. What do you think an execute is? I mean, you could continue pressing x for a more boring experience if you want. Or you could petition to get hemo back. They could, of course, be more creative, but they have the ability already coded and built, so it’s easy to implement.

It also fits nicely into the rotation, it’s an additional button to press, and a proc to watch for. It could be more synergistic with other facets of the spec, but that might be expecting too much from the design team right now.

Of course, you could just come across all ignorant and just yell “but it’s just 1+1=2”. Yes, it’s a button you press instead of another button at a specific point in an encounter; so fucking what, atleast it’s not so useless that no one ever chooses it as a talent ever.

[ornichi]

atleast it’s not so useless that no one ever chooses it as a talent ever.

Only if they dont make other choices stornger obviously. It's just funny to observe ,how they get rid of a useless button claiming it makes rotation blatant and boring just to re-add it expansion later.

[Jaronicity]

Those cloak and feint changes though. /sadface

[ro9ue]

I left a ton of feedback in the in-game suggestion tool on Assassination feeling empty without Dispatch. I liked being able to react to stuff and having an execute phase.

Only thing I'm a little disappointed about is the Poison Bomb basically only have a 20% chance to proc at 5cps. Just reduce the damage and make it 20% chance per CP so we have more control over our AOE damage. I'm sick of just having to get lucky. I hope I get into the beta because I'll be writing essays on some of these class changes (not just rogue).

- - - Updated - - -

remove roll the bones.
remove roll the bones.
remove roll the bones.
How many people have to say it Blizzard?!

I personally like it, I just think Slice and Dice should be baseline and RTB should be a talent you can opt into if you like the RNG playstyle.


At least with RTB you're always gettign some sort of bonus. The poison bomb RNG is either 100 or 0.

[Master Guns]

Where are you guys getting this info aside from virtually unreadable data mined info

[Feali]

Where are you guys getting this info aside from virtually unreadable data mined info

You just have to know how to read it.