The Butchery of Survival in BFA

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They should just admit defeat and reroll the spec to SoO-gameplay.

They really really shouldn’t.

[Tenant]

Well, I don't give a shit about what you "alt"

If it's an incomplete kit, Why?

Why is it incomplete compared to the BASE they were trying to IMPROVE?

It's incomplete because, as you already know, they're changing the spec's rotation fundamentally. I call everything in the alpha incomplete, because that what it all is, so by extension of course the spec that's getting retooled is also going to be incomplete

They aren't improving the base, they're replacing it. Is that not why you made this shitty thread in the first place? Are you slowly deteriorating while frantically trying to reply to everyone?

If by ranged you mean Outlaw Rogue, then yes I think that's where they are going. The class might gain some abilities to use while closing the distance or to kite, but not this end of the world it's going to be MM again.

Yeah that's what I meant. Still does their combat in melee, just having some abilities you can happen to toss at distant enemies

[Deleted]

Would you feel better if they renamed Kill Command to something else for Survival hunters?

I'd feel better if they had Flanking Strike and Mongoose bite as baseline instead of literally spamming kill Command and Not!cobra shot for the entire "Rotation"

[Fabled]

I mean, it's not like they're bound to change anything this early in the alpha or anything...right?

[Deleted]

It's incomplete because, as you already know, they're changing the spec's rotation fundamentally. I call everything in the alpha incomplete, because that what it all is, so by extension of course the spec that's getting retooled is also going to be incomplete

For the worse, which is why I made this thread, to call attention to the fact that Survival has literally been gutted to the most simplistic and dumbed down thing possible.

[Aggrophobic]

Buff the duration of Lacerate.

Remove Explosive shot as a baseline damage spell.

Mongoose bite has a lower GCD after the first bite.

Buff spells and abilties to compensate loss of Legion shit.

And to appease the Ranged crybabys, Replace Spitting Cobra with

"Headhunter:- All abilites and auto attacks have a 30 yard range"

Fixes literally everything about Survival.

Maybe it does. The fact that it's a melee is problematic in many cases.
You can hardly be mad at Blizzard for doing something though. It was not very popular after all.

[Flurryfang]

The new Alpha changes show the glorious work Blizzard decided to put into the red-headed stepchild of the Hunter specs.

And the work is nothing. Less than nothing, because it actively takes away the core gameplay in favor of... turning us into Semi-ranged BM.
They could literally change Raptor strike to Cobra Shot and I think we'd have every single spell they do bar bestial Wrath and Dire beast.

Instead of an interesting ramping mechanic, we just spend our focus as fast as possible. Unless you want to take said useless ramping mechanic as a talent, but it seems pretty fucking worthless and even more clunky.

No, instead of sticking to their guns and working the spec into a presentable Melee spec, they faltered and listened to the constant whining done by useless people who want Survival to be "Marksman, but can move a bit better"

I really liked the idea of Survival, a rugged trapper fighting with spear and claw, using cunning to outflank enemies. Now I am literally a bad BM hunter. So it just makes me ask.

What is the point of Survival in BfA?

The class that we see in the notes seem like a half class really. Alot of the things does not make much sense, such as the new bomb together with the serpent sting, 2 dots who work nearly the same way. Furthermore, the class is without a core, because if they don't have mongoose bite, what is the fun thing about survival, what it is gimmick?

We just saw a watercooler decussion about giving classes/specs identity and it seems like the opposite has happend to Survival, who already had quite a unique playstyle thanks to mongoose bite spamming in specific moments.

So i will say, that we must be looking at a half-finished prototype, which is still lacking some additions to its tool kit, just like many other classes.

[Deleted]

Maybe it does. The fact that it's a melee is problematic in many cases.
You can hardly be mad at Blizzard for doing something though. It was not very popular after all.

Yes, I can.

Ignore the dumbasses crying about it not being ranged. Double down and actually think and listen to what the spec needed.

What the spec didn't need, was half-arsed ranged abilties and a total gutting of any interesting mechanics.

[Kelthos]

I'd feel better if they had Flanking Strike and Mongoose bite as baseline instead of literally spamming kill Command and Not!cobra shot for the entire "Rotation"

As opposed to spamming Flanking Strike on cooldown and Raptor Strike when there is nothing else to do outside of Mongoose windows on live? It really doesn't seem all that different to me from a functional standpoint. Serpent Sting is just an extra dot to throw on in addition to lacerate and our traps.

With the flanking strike talent kill command functions pretty much exactly the same as FS on live except with some extras and no chance to grant a mongoose charge, but with Fury of the Eagle gone it won't be so crucial to get to 6 stacks every time. I'll tell ya, I won't miss FotE. It was just annoying for a mob to leap/run away or you to get knocked back and waste half of it.

[Deleted]

The class that we see in the notes seem like a half class really. Alot of the things does not make much sense, such as the new bomb together with the serpent sting, 2 dots who work nearly the same way. Furthermore, the class is without a core, because if they don't have mongoose bite, what is the fun thing about survival, what it is gimmick?

We just saw a watercooler decussion about giving classes/specs identity and it seems like the opposite has happend to Survival, who already had quite a unique playstyle thanks to mongoose bite spamming in specific moments.

So i will say, that we must be looking at a half-finished prototype, which is still lacking some additions to its tool kit, just like many other classes.

If this was the prototype though, and this is why I am so damned angry, Why is our core mechanics, the Mongoose bite and such, in the talents. Wouldn't it be easier to swap it around?

Why make Serpent Sting again? It seems to be exactly the same as lacerate, but now it has less function but 40 yards. I would have prefered NEW things not just destroying the old things to add half-baked versions.

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As opposed to spamming Flanking Strike on cooldown and Raptor Strike when there is nothing else to do outside of Mongoose windows on live? It really doesn't seem all that different to me from a functional standpoint. Serpent Sting is just an extra dot to throw on in addition to lacerate and our traps.

With the flanking strike talent kill command functions pretty much exactly the same as FS on live except with some extras and no chance to grant a mongoose charge, but with Fury of the Eagle gone it won't be so crucial to get to 6 stacks every time. I'll tell ya, I won't miss FotE. It was just annoying for a mob to leap/run away or you to get knocked back and waste half of it.

Because rng can be fun, and developing your character to mitigate that rng is rewarding. We had things like Snake Hunter to avoid it, and talents bounced off of the mongoose mechanic to ensure it wasn't dull and standard.

I find myself very rarely hitting Raptor Strike in Legion only to keep up Mok'Nathal if I have it. Survival's rotation was bloated and clunky, but not because of the Mongoose mechanic.

[Shrouded]

Every alpha build is what is known as a "vertical slice", effectively a snapshot of development at the time. What's done is done, what is unfinished is left unfinished. That's why it's so ridiculous to be outraged about what a spec looks like in a particular snapshot - especially the first one! I think it's perfectly fine to have opinions, but declaring that Survival is "butchered" and flipping over tables is more than a little premature.

[Jastall]

Given that Survival is the single most unpopular DPS spec in the game right now, it shouldn't come as a surprise that Blizz is reworking it.

Personally I'm fine with the idea that Survival is semi-ranged. To me that works well with the idea of a Hunter.

[Deleted]

Every alpha build is what is known as a "vertical slice", effectively a snapshot of development at the time. What's done is done, what is unfinished is left unfinished. That's why it's so ridiculous to be outraged about what a spec looks like in a particular snapshot - especially the first one! I think it's perfectly fine to have opinions, but declaring that Survival is "butchered" and flipping over tables is more than a little premature.

Why so. Like you said, it shows the vertical slice, and this slice shows what they intended for Survival. I am not complaining about numbers or anything of the like. I am complaining about the specific deliberate removal of Survivals mechanics in favor of focus dumping on cooldown.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Ah yes "Marksman in everything but name" Was a fun time.

Oh wait, All three specs playing almost exactly the same is why MM or Survival suffered every time each other simmed higher than the other.

Was the best time of Survival, MM's going down a different route.

[Deleted]

Given that Survival is the single most unpopular DPS spec in the game right now, it shouldn't come as a surprise that Blizz is reworking it.

Personally I'm fine with the idea that Survival is semi-ranged. To me that works well with the idea of a Hunter.

Semi-ranged is a stupid idea, it will ALWAYS be a stupid idea. Especially when it's done in such a dullard stupid way as shown in BfA.

Throwing Axes, Bombs and Traps? Sure, They're good ways to show the Class Fantasy of Hunters.

Half of the skills being 40 yard dots for no reason and just straight up having Kill Command? No.

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Was the best time of Survival, MM's going down a different route.

Literally wrong, Because it played exactly like MM did. You want the mobile shooty ranged? Go BM.

[Niroshi]

I like the direction so far. Hopefully they can rescue the spec from where it is in Legion.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Semi-ranged is a stupid idea, it will ALWAYS be a stupid idea. Especially when it's done in such a dullard stupid way as shown in BfA.

Throwing Axes, Bombs and Traps? Sure, They're good ways to show the Class Fantasy of Hunters.

Half of the skills being 40 yard dots for no reason and just straight up having Kill Command? No.

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Literally wrong, Because it played exactly like MM did. You want the mobile shooty ranged? Go BM.

Another one using the word "literally" without understanding it I see.

Not at all wrong, like I said MM's going down a different design route and already plays differently now in Legion.
BM is nowhere near as fun as SoO SV was so I'mma keep hoping and giving feedback to that end.

[Deleted]

I like the direction so far. Hopefully they can rescue the spec from where it is in Legion.

Oh? What do you like about the direction.

Without using the word Ranged.

[Berndorf]

I mean, it's not like they're bound to change anything this early in the alpha or anything...right?

You never know what that will lead to though. The chances of them just writing off all the new changes to go back to what it currently is seem very slim to none to me.

[Deleted]

Another one using the word "literally" without understanding it I see.

Not at all wrong, like I said MM's going down a different design route and already plays differently now in Legion.
BM is nowhere near as fun as SoO SV was so I'mma keep hoping and giving feedback to that end.

Ah yes "Fun"

"Spam Explosive shot and Black Arrow, with filler cobra shot"

Pretty much how MM worked then, and pretty close to how MM works now. Replace Black Arrow with Marked shot.