The Butchery of Survival in BFA

[Shrouded]

Why so. Like you said, it shows the vertical slice, and this slice shows what they intended for Survival. I am not complaining about numbers or anything of the like. I am complaining about the specific deliberate removal of Survivals mechanics in favor of focus dumping on cooldown.

No, it shows what you infer to be the intentions for Survival. If there are no more changes except for numbers then yes, you are completely right, but given how there will be dozens more builds before BfA goes live, that seems very unlikely. I guarantee that "finalizing every spec except for numbers tuning" was not on Blizzard's checklist of things to do before alpha.

[Deleted]

No, it shows what you infer to be the intentions for Survival. If there are no more changes except for numbers then yes, you are completely right, but given how there will be dozens more builds before BfA goes live, that seems very unlikely. I guarantee that "finalizing every spec except for numbers tuning" was not on Blizzard's checklist of things to do before alpha.

No, but removing the core mechanic and putting a terrible version of it as a talent was, which shows intent. Nothing they have shown is good in any form at all and shows a dumbing down of the spec.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Ah yes "Fun"

"Spam Explosive shot and Black Arrow, with filler cobra shot"

Pretty much how MM worked then, and pretty close to how MM works now. Replace Black Arrow with Marked shot.

I'd say that current MM is vastly inferior to what SV was back then. It does high damage, but is nowhere near fun.

SoO SV on the other hand. It was great fun, explosive and mobile with dots and crazy AOE. I wouldn't mind it if they designed MM that way instead, as long as one spec got the gameplay back and it's not BM.

[Deleted]

I'd say that current MM is vastly inferior to what SV was back then.

It was great fun, explosive and mobile with dots and crazy AOE.

It was generic with no feeling. "Spam shots off cooldown" garbage.

Survival now is infinitely more fun and thematically enjoyable.

[Donald Hellscream]

I'd be more inclined to play it if they keep Mongoose bite as an option rather than a baseline.

[Niroshi]

Oh? What do you like about the direction.

Without using the word Ranged.

It strips down the current unfocused clunky design into something more focused. Also fuck you for trying to limit people in what they want out of the class. Also ranged.

[Voidwielder]

How do you butcher a decayed corpse?

[Deleted]

It strips down the current unfocused clunky design into something more focused. Also fuck you for trying to limit people in what they want out of the class. Also ranged.

Go play BM then. It does literally everything BfA does, but has had another year of design on top of it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

It was generic with no feeling. "Spam shots off cooldown" garbage.

Survival now is infinitely more fun and thematically enjoyable.

Each to their own.

SV feels like the bastard ginger child of 2 ginger parents in Luton and would only be fixed if they first and foremost abandoned the melee pipe dream for the spec.

[Deleted]

Each to their own.

SV feels like the bastard ginger child of 2 ginger parents in Luton.

Because it needed some smoothing out of it's mechanics. Not the removal of them.

[Vitinariy]

If this was the prototype though, and this is why I am so damned angry, Why is our core mechanics, the Mongoose bite and such, in the talents.

I agree about mongoose, it's really odd that they move it to talents. We always had Raptor strike, so there's no reason to complain about it. What else do you consider core? Lacerate? I don't give 2 s*ts about, Caltrops? It's honestly ridiculous that we have to use AOE spell on single target, flanking strike is fine but moving more damage to our pet might actually make levelling and questing a lot less annoying because there's a veeeery small chance that the pet would actually be useful in tanking.

Otherwise, it seems that they are moving survival into a semi-ranged class like Enh Shamans. New Eagle is basically the old ascendance and we have ranged sting and bomb, which is perfectly fine because we can be more useful if the fight has a lot of movement. Also having a targeted bomb is a lot better then having a clunky explosive trap that does not trigger on some bosses.

[Dadwen]

How do you butcher a decayed corpse?

Pretty much that...

That aside just leave it a dead melee spec like they plan, that way I won't feel the need to try and buy legion or BFA or whatever the next expansion is called.
(For those that like it and don't spout *crap like they played the same (Wrath -> MOP I loved playing SV but disliked MM) *for those kind I hope they butcher it even more, for those that regret old Range SV going away and have a hair of sympathy for those that lost their spec I hope they get something they want out of this mess).

[Deleted]

The new Alpha changes show the glorious work Blizzard decided to put into the red-headed stepchild of the Hunter specs.

And the work is nothing. Less than nothing, because it actively takes away the core gameplay in favor of... turning us into Semi-ranged BM.
They could literally change Raptor strike to Cobra Shot and I think we'd have every single spell they do bar bestial Wrath and Dire beast.

Instead of an interesting ramping mechanic, we just spend our focus as fast as possible. Unless you want to take said useless ramping mechanic as a talent, but it seems pretty fucking worthless and even more clunky.

No, instead of sticking to their guns and working the spec into a presentable Melee spec, they faltered and listened to the constant whining done by useless people who want Survival to be "Marksman, but can move a bit better"

I really liked the idea of Survival, a rugged trapper fighting with spear and claw, using cunning to outflank enemies. Now I am literally a bad BM hunter. So it just makes me ask.

What is the point of Survival in BfA?

cringeeeeeeepost

i cringed hard

why do you think its called "alpha", you clown?

[Deleted]

I agree about mongoose, it's really odd that they move it to talents. We always had Raptor strike, so there's no reason to complain about it. What else do you consider core? Lacerate? I don't give 2 s*ts about, Caltrops? It's honestly ridiculous that we have to use AOE spell on single target, flanking strike is fine but moving more damage to our pet might actually make levelling and questing a lot less annoying because there's a veeeery small chance that the pet would actually be useful in tanking.

Otherwise, it seems that they are moving survival into a semi-ranged class like Enh Shamans. New Eagle is basically the old ascendance and we have ranged sting and bomb, which is perfectly fine because we can be more useful if the fight has a lot of movement. Also having a targeted bomb is a lot better then having a clunky explosive trap that does not trigger on some bosses.

I liked the idea of duality, You stand there with your pet fighting side by side. We already had amazing mobility, I don't see why we need 40 yard serpent stings. I don't want to be "Semi-ranged" at the cost of our cohesive toolkit.

The new toolkit feels half-assed and boring and creates more problems than it fixes.

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty much that...

That aside just leave it a dead melee spec like they plan, that way I won't feel the need to try and buy legion or BFA or whatever the next expansion is called.
(For those that like it and don't spout crap like they played the same (Wrath -> MOP I loved playing SV but disliked MM) I hope they butcher it even more, for those that regret old Range SV going away and have a hair of sympathy for those that lost their spec I hope they get something they want out of this mess).

So you're a vindictive little pissant who doesn't even play the game, Angry a boring generic ranged spec was changed to fit a better Hunter Class design than firing magic bullshit arrows.

- - - Updated - - -

cringeeeeeeepost

i cringed hard

why do you think its called "alpha", you clown?

Maybe contribute instead of sounding like a 14 year old twitter poster cretin.

[Dadwen]

So you're a vindictive little pissant who doesn't even play the game, Angry a boring generic ranged spec was changed to fit a better Hunter Class design than firing magic bullshit arrows.

lol yep aginst people like you spouting BS very vindictive, and you mean changed to fit like a rogue with a pet or a shaman with a full time pet derp... (or you could play a DK that is melee with a pet already, because you know the game JUST needed another melee class.... /facepalm.)

and the removal of the third hunter spec is the reason I don't play, and I've been playing almost since launch (minus some breaks)

[Deleted]

lol yep aginst people like you spouting BS very vindictive, and you mean changed to fit like a rogue with a pet or a shaman with a full time pet derp... (or you could play a DK that is melee with a pet already, because you know the game JUST needed another melee class.... /facepalm.)

Oh I'm sorry, I rather enjoy the rugged Trapper idea Melee Survival lays down. Not the stupid Anime Archer it used to be. Why did all three of our specs need to be ranged exactly? Eventually it causes problems.

Look at rogues, they have spec identity problems right now.

[Bepples]

Ah yes "Marksman in everything but name" Was a fun time.

Oh wait, All three specs playing almost exactly the same is why MM or Survival suffered every time each other simmed higher than the other.

MM and SV were not the same thing. This is post-Legion revisionism pushed by Blizzard and eaten up by their acolytes on the forums.

The spec was vastly more successful when it was ranged. I think BFA's Survival changes are a big mess and hybrid melee/ranged are a bad idea. And yes, I think it's foolish to make SV the "melee BM" (although, let's be honest, this is pretty much what Survival's primary identity was in Legion). But BFA to me says that Blizzard recognises the primary problem with SV is being melee makes it completely alien and unappealing to most of the Hunter playerbase. This lines up with Hazzikostas' comments in the Gamescom interview. It looks like they think the solution is to have some ranged but to not back away from the melee idea just yet.

So we are now at a point similar to how Survival was in Vanilla before 1.7: some strange mashup of melee and ranged mechanics. In 1.7 they decided to bring Survival in line with the other two Hunter specs and make it primarily ranged. We will see what happens after BFA. I sincerely doubt a hybrid idea is ever going to work so they will have to either double down on melee or concede to ranged. Blizzard's ego favours melee. History favours ranged.

Oh I'm sorry, I rather enjoy the rugged Trapper idea Melee Survival lays down. Not the stupid Anime Archer it used to be. Why did all three of our specs need to be ranged exactly? Eventually it causes problems.

That "stupid anime archer" was routinely one of the most popular specs in the game. If Blizzard ever wants Survival to be taken seriously by this class again they should take notes from what the spec used to be.

Why do we need a 13th melee spec?

Look at rogues, they have spec identity problems right now.

Spec identity problems aren't real problems.

[Deleted]

I liked the idea of duality, You stand there with your pet fighting side by side. We already had amazing mobility, I don't see why we need 40 yard serpent stings. I don't want to be "Semi-ranged" at the cost of our cohesive toolkit.

The new toolkit feels half-assed and boring and creates more problems than it fixes.

- - - Updated - - -



So you're a vindictive little pissant who doesn't even play the game, Angry a boring generic ranged spec was changed to fit a better Hunter Class design than firing magic bullshit arrows.

- - - Updated - - -



Maybe contribute instead of sounding like a 14 year old twitter poster cretin.

cringe cringe

[Dadwen]

Oh I'm sorry, I rather enjoy the rugged Trapper idea Melee Survival lays down. Not the stupid Anime Archer it used to be. Why did all three of our specs need to be ranged exactly? Eventually it causes problems.

Look at rogues, they have spec identity problems right now.

Lol, all three were ranged at launch *due to dead zone had some melee skills that went away with the dead zone (hence the proof that's all they were there for) and I think you have Stupid confused with rugged, what moron want to go toe to toe with a bear when he can keep some distance and take it down... want to go toe to toe, put some plate on man up and be a tank, game needs more of those.

[stae60]

I liked the idea of duality, You stand there with your pet fighting side by side. We already had amazing mobility, I don't see why we need 40 yard serpent stings. I don't want to be "Semi-ranged" at the cost of our cohesive toolkit.

The new toolkit feels half-assed and boring and creates more problems than it fixes.

- - - Updated - - -



So you're a vindictive little pissant who doesn't even play the game, Angry a boring generic ranged spec was changed to fit a better Hunter Class design than firing magic bullshit arrows.

- - - Updated - - -



Maybe contribute instead of sounding like a 14 year old twitter poster cretin.

You have a lot of anger in you. I like that, but why even respond to the trolls? You have to admit that they MUST do something with the least played spec. I get that your angry about them changing the way it is or just not tightening up what was there. The only way they CAN change the spec is by getting rid of what people didn't like, which is what you're fighting for them to keep.