FoB performing worse than Rend even though FoB simmed higher already..

[giniyo]

So my set pieces arent the optimal ones and my 2nd legendary is aggramars (+Ayala) and overall i gain 7 itemlevels with the new set and going Fervor of Battle.

BUT simming tells me even the suboptimal setup & new set with FoB would already beat the Rend build. It just doesnt perform like it at all.

I pull more dps with my old t20 set & great storms eye (losing overall 7 itemlevels too), even specced into sweeping strikes singletarget...

And its not just a little bit, its 100-150k. Is FoB just this random of a spec? I still end up sitting there waiting out my smash cd because i didnt get a reset the whole time. I even have +2 Exploit the Weakness from relics..

Is FoB just unplayable without the gloves despite what sims say?

[Deleted]

So my set pieces arent the optimal ones and my 2nd legendary is aggramars (+Ayala) and overall i gain 7 itemlevels with the new set and going Fervor of Battle.

BUT simming tells me even the suboptimal setup & new set with FoB would already beat the Rend build. It just doesnt perform like it at all.

I pull more dps with my old t20 set & great storms eye (losing overall 7 itemlevels too), even specced into sweeping strikes singletarget...

And its not just a little bit, its 100-150k. Is FoB just this random of a spec? I still end up sitting there waiting out my smash cd because i didnt get a reset the whole time. I even have +2 Exploit the Weakness from relics..

Is FoB just unplayable without the gloves despite what sims say?

The loud ones all say that FoB is the go to talent, and you and me and many others struggle with it (I tried it a few times) and many say again even louder that arms is shit, has no buttons and underperforming. I take TM instead and have 100% uptime on CS, hitting Slam in almost every gcd and say it's more fluid and less RNG.

Without any simming I ask, how would FoB better than TM, when FoB boosts only one single ability, while TM grants 100% CS uptime which affects all abilities and has zero downtime, while when downtime happens with FoB, it's a huge dps loss for those seconds.

[Aggrophobic]

The loud ones all say that FoB is the go to talent, and you and me and many others struggle with it (I tried it a few times) and many say again even louder that arms is shit, has no buttons and underperforming. I take TM instead and have 100% uptime on CS, hitting Slam in almost every gcd and say it's more fluid and less RNG.

Without any simming I ask, how would FoB better than TM, when FoB boosts only one single ability, while TM grants 100% CS uptime which affects all abilities and has zero downtime, while when downtime happens with FoB, it's a huge dps loss for those seconds.

How about you showing logs where you consistently beat the FoB specs then if you think you know something no one else does. That would just end the discussion and you win.

Go ahead.

[giniyo]

How about you showing logs where you consistently beat the FoB specs then if you think you know something no one else does. That would just end the discussion and you win.

Go ahead.

ive seen a couple rend builds still in there not a lot though, understandable when the set bonus kind of tells you to go FoB im just not feeling it at all maybe the gloves are just mandatory idk thats why i made this post

also now that i think about it there is like nothing else useful now that the helm is last tier kind of, in terms of legendaries

[Aggrophobic]

ive seen a couple rend builds still in there not a lot though, understandable when the set bonus kind of tells you to go FoB im just not feeling it at all maybe the gloves are just mandatory idk thats why i made this post

also now that i think about it there is like nothing else useful now that the helm is last tier kind of, in terms of legendaries

Yeah, the spec plays really poorly without the gloves.
I'm glad they removed these in BfA. Some specs just feel so lackluster without the right ones.

On topic though: Play whatever you like and when you read most guids, they pretty much expect you to have the best gear you can get. If you don't have that then builds, stat weights and in rare cases even rotations and such can be different.

[giniyo]

figured, guess ill wait for the gloves before giving fob another shot, thanks!

[Holofernes]

fob / trauma is like always, a gamble. It has higher average values, and its range from max to min dps is very wide. U can have bad luck and go ages without procs, making your dps tending towards the lower end.
What trauma /fob build excels on is execute phase. trauma executes are strong, and push you over the rend / tm build in most cases.

Rend / tm is more stable dps, with weaker execute phase and generall lower average dps, but with more consistency.

For example i take set gloves, and use ravager (with helmet legendary)op tm rend, and do about the same st dps as with trauma fob on the dummy, and in several bossfights. But i also get like 15 % more mastery in my special case, so i personally think its always a question of what gear u have.

I have a bad helmet and therefore if i switch to leg helmet and gain the mastery from set gloves (which have an socket too), for my special case, tm build is on par (often ahead) than fob build, as 960 arms. Now imagine i get the mythic eonar helmet with all its mastery, and im pretty sure, fob build comes out ahead again, and im swaping gloves to legendary again, and playing ballerina girl once again.

[Caargon]

Without any simming I ask, how would FoB better than TM, when FoB boosts only one single ability, while TM grants 100% CS uptime which affects all abilities and has zero downtime, while when downtime happens with FoB, it's a huge dps loss for those seconds.

Looking at my Antorus logs I've got something like an 85% CS uptime on a primary target without TM so it's safe to say a good chunk of that talent's bonus goes to waste outside of AoE. If you don't have the legendary gloves the "standard" T21 build probably won't live up to expectations, and it will definitely feel shitty to play.

As to results, using rend and TM with T21 I get about 1.97mil DPS. Using the standard FoB spin2win build and the same gear, I get just over 2mil. Add any kind of cleaving at all, and it stops being close.

[Deleted]

The loud ones all say that FoB is the go to talent, and you and me and many others struggle with it (I tried it a few times) and many say again even louder that arms is shit, has no buttons and underperforming. I take TM instead and have 100% uptime on CS, hitting Slam in almost every gcd and say it's more fluid and less RNG.

Without any simming I ask, how would FoB better than TM, when FoB boosts only one single ability, while TM grants 100% CS uptime which affects all abilities and has zero downtime, while when downtime happens with FoB, it's a huge dps loss for those seconds.

I am running Sweeps/TM for Dungeons and really like it, but sometimes i forget to switch for nhc antorus and it's crap. Having a lucky streak of resets leaving you rage capped without beeing able to spend the rage efficiently feels really bad. In raids you usually don't do CS->MS-> Cleave->WW all the time. Within a raid environment using FoB i am able to spend my rage. I even have to take care to not spend too much, so usually i have two WW between the MS, leaving enough room to heroic charge for additional rage from time to time without missing an ability use.

The main difference is around 15% CS-Uptime plus a couple more buffed MS vs. the buffed WW with the higher rage usage without capping.