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  1. #161
    If you could raid Mythic with 10-15 people, how do you think Blizzard could get away with charging all of you £19 a time to transfer to a server that's alive (for another expansion or two)?

    Think, people. It's not about you.

  2. #162
    Delete this thread. Please.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Jargathnan View Post
    Do I miss difficult raiding in a 10-man setup? Sure. Even when I was pushing hardcore 25-man HM/heroic raiding, I always enjoyed 10-man HM/heroics on off-nights to push achievements. But that team was really a selection of the best 10 people from our 25 man roster, so that also made a difference.

    Do I want it back? Not really. Nostalgia aside, 10-man raiding brings with it a set of challenges that I don't relish reliving. If the devs tune encounters with 20 people in mind, and then dial it down to 10, you're inevitably going to have fights that are exponentially more difficult in 10-man. It boils down to resources, cooldowns, and bodies at that point. The alternative then is the devs need to design mythic encounters to change radically between 10 and 20 man. It's possible, sure. But I have a feeling the identity of the fight would be lost rather frequently, as the devs account for less people.

    And to those that would tell me "if you don't want it, don't do it": you're absolutely right, I wouldn't have to do 10-man mythic. But, as we saw when 10-man raiding became a thing, the larger raid teams became less and less common. Ultimately many people will be subjected to 10-man raiding just because that's what the community will take a shift towards, even if they don't necessarily want to.
    This is where Blizzard screwed up though. They should have just balanced around 10m and then adjusted to 25m so that 25m was technically "easier", since getting 25 people together is a challenge in itself.

    It's a very fair trade off, and low pop server friendly.

    But noooooo, we can't have anything nice.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnowItAll View Post
    so im guessing you are in favor of the old raid attunements also then since it would make it harder to reach? that would prolly make you the only person in the world with that mindset.and why do you think blizzard introduced 10-man mythic back in the day?certainly not to make it harder to reach and in fact,quite the opposite.Unlike you i'd like to get the difficulty from somewhere else than from the process of getting 20 guys to be able to even try the mythic content.
    Unlike you I'd rather have Blizzard not waste time "scaling" Mythic by making Mythic Mechanics like Heroic Mechanics that don't require specific amounts of people, and instead use their time to make new content

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Just because you find Mythic hard, doesnt mean we all do, there is a massive difference having 10 people that want to goof around in Mythic, than having 15 delusional bads that dont belong in Mythic, and 5 people that should change guild.
    Mythic isn't hard but why bother going into Mythic to goof off. Just go Heroic

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by HyperJay View Post
    Unlike you I'd rather have Blizzard not waste time "scaling" Mythic by making Mythic Mechanics like Heroic Mechanics that don't require specific amounts of people, and instead use their time to make new content

    - - - Updated - - -



    Mythic isn't hard but why bother going into Mythic to goof off. Just go Heroic
    Because HC gets cleared too fast usually and there are months remaining of nothing to do and Mythic 10man would be godly despite goofing around? And by goofing around i simply mean we do not raid seriously anymore, the 1.5h-5h/week is more than enough, HC gets tiring really fast, especially when its undertuned like this tier.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Because HC gets cleared too fast usually and there are months remaining of nothing to do and Mythic 10man would be godly despite goofing around? And by goofing around i simply mean we do not raid seriously anymore, the 1.5h-5h/week is more than enough, HC gets tiring really fast, especially when its undertuned like this tier.
    an hour and a half is like Heroic Skip and First two on Mythic without goofing whats even the point.

  7. #167
    High Overlord NomCarver's Avatar
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    I prefer 20 man. 10 man doesn't feel like a true raid to me. I have always enjoyed 25 man over 10 man for that reason.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by HyperJay View Post
    an hour and a half is like Heroic Skip and First two on Mythic without goofing whats even the point.
    The point is the raids are supposed to 2-2.5h, aka max 5h/week, when the raid becomes 1.5h as it has been for a few weeks now, you get bored, and you either unsub till next expansion or go Mythic.

    We cant go Mythic to goof around the same way and probably do something like 6/10 in the next months for the hell of it, only thing left is to either unsub, or alts to repeat the HC, but HC is mega boring, therefor,unsub.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    The point is the raids are supposed to 2-2.5h, aka max 5h/week, when the raid becomes 1.5h as it has been for a few weeks now, you get bored, and you either unsub till next expansion or go Mythic.

    We cant go Mythic to goof around the same way and probably do something like 6/10 in the next months for the hell of it, only thing left is to either unsub, or alts to repeat the HC, but HC is mega boring, therefor,unsub.
    You legit can't expect to do much in Mythic if your guild can't get 20 or only plans to raid about 2 and a half hours.
    Level alts and gear them, do other content who cares

  10. #170
    IMO preference has little to do with it. Unless you are in a major realm you WILL have a hard time getting a good roster of 20-22 players in the same or close enough skill gap.

    I too prefere 20 and did prefer 25 back then but I'll have to transfer my 12 110s and completly abandon my server community if I want to be competitve or even get a cutting edge before the next tier... recruiting good enough players is not an option sadly.

  11. #171
    Over 9000! Yggdrasil's Avatar
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    10 man allowed raiding to be challenging for a lot more people. Once it went to 20 it became a lot more exclusive. There is a reason most guilds went to 10 man raiding. Path of least resistance. Less resistance means more players able to raid at a less than droll level obviously. But some people felt that other people killing pixels was a problem even though they never meet or talk to those people. They wanted fewer people killing pixels because they need something to feel good about. Obviously life wasn't doing it for them so raiding had too.. thus.. here we are at a more exclusive spot for raiding and mythic+ pretty much ripping a ton of its audience away from it because.. wow.. a lot of people like smaller groups with challenging content that is rewarding. Oh.. by the way.. in a 20 man mythic guild sooooo.. right.. the whole "get a guild noob" or "you had 6 months to recruit after announcement idiot" type of classic replies fall pretty fucking short. Because of these mentalities Blizzard is going to move more and more to mythic+ and away from raiding. the raiding community is just to toxic and demands to much exclusiveness to something that really doesn't matter if it is exclusive or not because the only kill that matters is first, and if you aren't on a list of about 100-120 people in the WHOLE WORLD you aren't getting it.

    Cheers.

  12. #172
    The Patient Joolo's Avatar
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    Yes they need bring back 10 man raid les people les stupidity more gameplay

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    If you could raid Mythic with 10-15 people, how do you think Blizzard could get away with charging all of you £19 a time to transfer to a server that's alive (for another expansion or two)?

    Think, people. It's not about you.
    What? I don't even...

    The logic leaps... so huge.

  14. #174
    Scarab Lord nocturnus's Avatar
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    Well, the good news is we won't be forced to raid for tiers anymore in the next xpac

    I also prefer smaller groups; the smaller the better. Which is why I was happy with the mythic + implementation and why I stopped raiding when they removed 10 man Mythic.

    I also think that with the disappearance of tier sets, people will eventually stop raiding. We'll see soon enough.
    Last edited by nocturnus; 2018-02-16 at 10:19 AM.

  15. #175
    Yeah 10m raiding was the most fun for me. And i agree that their argument that "balancing 10 and 25 is too difficult" is shit, it's not like heroic now with 10 people isn't much harder than with 20+ on most fights.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    If you could raid Mythic with 10-15 people, how do you think Blizzard could get away with charging all of you £19 a time to transfer to a server that's alive (for another expansion or two)?

    Think, people. It's not about you.
    This Evil Blizzard mastermind!!!!!111!!!

    /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordfish Trombone View Post
    Life hack: Unsub for 6 months and come back when you think the game is fun again.

  17. #177
    Same, I just can't keep playing anymore without 10man. I usually now raid 10man heroic and wait the next raid tier playing other games.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    10 man allowed raiding to be challenging for a lot more people. Once it went to 20 it became a lot more exclusive. There is a reason most guilds went to 10 man raiding. Path of least resistance. Less resistance means more players able to raid at a less than droll level obviously. But some people felt that other people killing pixels was a problem even though they never meet or talk to those people. They wanted fewer people killing pixels because they need something to feel good about.
    ...what? You're right on the first part but in bold you're just making mindless assumptions. The change to 20M wasn't because of "some people" being upset that "other people" were killing bosses. It was changed so Blizzard wouldn't have to create raids which catered to two completely distinct raid sizes anymore. More importantly -- regardless of whether you agree with the idea or not -- Blizzard still cares a lot about class representation in Mythic so they chose a larger raid size to facilitate it.

    Bringing the whole 10 v 25 nonsense debate into the mix is completely irrelevant, especially given the fact that 20M's been around for nearly two entire expansions now.

  19. #179
    This is simple, I used to raid 10 man for about as long as it was available, but I do buy all the reasons to make mythic 20 only, if that is what makes encounters more complex and smarter and makes content flow - I am all for it, after all bunch of excuses aside - anyone who wants to raid Mythic is able to do so, unless he is not really up to a challenge.

    Let's not pretend that every mythic raider is some sort of active guild manager, if you are not then it makes bloody 0 difference whether it's 10 man or 20, just come and leech your epics as long as you can do the shit asked from you. You don't even need more than 6 hours a week to do it and clear tier before next one is out.

  20. #180
    flex 15-25 is ok for everybody - sure they come to that in future...

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