legion overall sense for elemental

[Ele man]

I occasionally gave my opinion here.

ele is totally useless in raid. If you want a top-end raid, you must give up ele immediately.
There were a lot of people who said I was pessimistic, but now I think I'm right.

This spec has a problem from concept. At bfa Blizzard intends to strengthen ele's AOE.
For example, epicenter is back in BFA. Blizzard does not remember why the epicenter changed in WoD.
This means that ele will only be stronger when you deal with 5 targets.

Think simple. The strength of AOE is not the virtue of good range dps.
What if you have 3 targets or 2targets deals? You are the perfect useless spec.
However, most people expect range dps to be good for spread 2 or 3 target deals.

Blizzard said that it strengthens the strength of each spec.
This means that ele will be an incompetent spec.

If your time and enthusiasm is in doubt, quit this spec.
Ele is no possibility of improvement.

[Nihiel]

Elemental has a pretty well defined role as far as spec identity is concerned: RNG proc-based gameplay, nice visuals, strong in aoe but weak in ST. Low resilience.

Having played elemental since WotLK, I remember being so excited when they announced our mastery because you'd actually notice and feel when your spells would overload. With current PotM, a billion CL overloads, triple overloads on LvB in WoD etc Elemental Overload is almost one of ele's more stable mechanics now.

THIS is what should be rng about elemental (as well as Lava Surge), not rng from buffed up crits as well as legendary gloves (worst shit ever) and the new proc based Elemental Mastery. Procs are fun, but when the entirety of your spec is based around rng it's just a fucking mess. Elemental IS a mess in Legion, it's only gotten "less bad" because we're reaching ilvls where our stats are high enough to even out some of the crit rng without having less than 1k mastery.

It was a mess during EN because crit was so low, so your ES and LB would hit for noodles, and besides you also needed LR procs to do any meaningful dmg. It was a mess during NH because you couldn't get enough of either stat without sacrificing another; you'd want crit for ES, EQ and CL - but LvB doesn't scale with crit. You also needed mastery for EB and general overload procs, but EQ didn't scale with mastery, and neither does CL basically. Haste saw resurgence because EQ would scale with it and it would outperform ES on SINGLE TARGET, which was then nerfed. Oh and then we also had a lovely 10% chance to do a billion times more dmg on every CL because Static Overload was so much rng and pure fun <3

tl;dr: elemental's core rng system is its mastery and Lava Surge. Somehow crit became a much needed stat too, and then everything went to the shitter.

As for strong aoe - elemental was insane in cleave in SoO with CL and overloads, then everything went to hell in WoD. Need I remind you how useless EQ was, first the cast time was too long, it DIDN'T HAVE A VISUAL, then CL would make it instant, and enter Legion - they change it once again - and come BfA, once more. EQ is a weakness, not a strength. It's a fucking disgrace that it's still being pushed onto elemental when the spec functioned so well without it. Looking at the proposed changes for BfA, now cleave/aoe (which elemental supposedly is so good at lol) is split between a cast-time dot spread that gives you more ST dmg through LS procs (useful in aoe scenarios right), a targeted ground effect that drains your resource lol, and a spammable-cast generator - how does all of this make sense? Elemental is a clusterfuck, the visuals are amazing and the "spec identity" is cool and all but it's been ruined by terrible execution ever since WoD came around. It's appalling beyond words when everything changes back and forth between every patch and none of it ever works, only because "we didn't want elemental to be a fire/lightning wizard so we're pushing EQ onto them too."

If you want to look at when elemental had a well defined role and niche, go back to MoP/SoO. That's when the spec was useful, didn't have to suffer because it doesn't have a blink and an immunity, and had useful utility. RIP functional elemental

[Segus1992]

Thats not at all what I'm doing but I also don't see any point in debating with you as you've proven many times that you simply can't keep a discussion civil and on topic without turning to petty insults and trolling.

Yes, logic and reason must be foreign concepts when you're looking for things to complain about.

[Aggrophobic]

Yes, logic and reason must be foreign concepts when you're looking for things to complain about.

You don't even make any sense.

[lummiuster]

Yea, honestly I think LB should be allowed to cast while moving. Our main nukes are LB anyways it'd be like the scorch spell from fire mages.

BTW, your post is super hard to read. Have you heard of paragraphs?

You're probably the only one who read his post. It is sad that someone spent 15mins writing something that no one will read lol.

[Socialhealer]

LB doesn't give you 10 maelstorm per second, unless you are talking about BL or extremely high haste values, even 8 maelstorm per second is a stretch, plus you want to cast it in the move (aka, 100% ABC uptime) so it'll add penalty as well.

I've browsed through multiple argus fights and LB is about 6-14% damage on average, you want it nerfed by 75% with compensation of being able to cast it on the move (aka, do less damage but cast it more often)

Yes, scorch also was cancer like LB, do you even remember MoP? Both abilities got significantly nerfed because of that - LB is no longer castable on the move, scorch doesn't do any damage without belt on execute phase.
I would also be perfectly fine with shamans having a legendary that gives them ability to cast LB on the move, or level 75 talent, but baseline 285% SP nuke being castable on the move? Nope.

you lost all credit when you called lightning bolt a nuke, it's literally my weakest hitting casted ability unless empowered by stormkeeper.

and lightning bolt wasn't even buffed after it was nerfed from cast on the move to not, so it was literally nerfed into the ground with zero compensation then suddenly elemental is fucking awful for ST and never taken on hard progress bosses? colour me surprised.

- - - Updated - - -

I occasionally gave my opinion here.

ele is totally useless in raid. If you want a top-end raid, you must give up ele immediately.
There were a lot of people who said I was pessimistic, but now I think I'm right.

This spec has a problem from concept. At bfa Blizzard intends to strengthen ele's AOE.
For example, epicenter is back in BFA. Blizzard does not remember why the epicenter changed in WoD.
This means that ele will only be stronger when you deal with 5 targets.

Think simple. The strength of AOE is not the virtue of good range dps.
What if you have 3 targets or 2targets deals? You are the perfect useless spec.
However, most people expect range dps to be good for spread 2 or 3 target deals.

Blizzard said that it strengthens the strength of each spec.
This means that ele will be an incompetent spec.

If your time and enthusiasm is in doubt, quit this spec.
Ele is no possibility of improvement.

atm EQ has a 15 second cooldown so if you cast CL then EQ and the tank moves the mobs, enjoy being behind rogues on AoE, oh and course behind rogues on every single target fight there is #balance.

[Kralljin]

atm EQ has a 15 second cooldown so if you cast CL then EQ and the tank moves the mobs, enjoy being behind rogues on AoE, oh and course behind rogues on every single target fight there is #balance.

While i have mixed feelings towards the Elemental changes, I'm rather certain the "current" version of Earthquake will receive changes.

Having CD on a spell that costs and drains Maelstrom is just pointless, the tooltip isn't even updated to reflect the Maelstrom drain nor does a total duration make much sense.

Meddling with Earthquake has become Blizzards favorite thing as far as Elemental in concerned, so i'll hold my judgement.

[Socialhealer]

While i have mixed feelings towards the Elemental changes, I'm rather certain the "current" version of Earthquake will receive changes.

Having CD on a spell that costs and drains Maelstrom is just pointless, the tooltip isn't even updated to reflect the Maelstrom drain nor does a total duration make much sense.

Meddling with Earthquake has become Blizzards favorite thing as far as Elemental in concerned, so i'll hold my judgement.

blizzard and elemental is like going on jackass being flung around in the portable toilet and not expecting to be covered in shit, it's not possible they always fuck it up.

[Kralljin]

blizzard and elemental is like going on jackass being flung around in the portable toilet and not expecting to be covered in shit, it's not possible they always fuck it up.

Wrong metaphor in my opinion, as i see it, Elemental is usually the kid that is forgotten by it's parents whenever they go vacation (a.k.a. new expansion).

[Socialhealer]

Wrong metaphor in my opinion, as i see it, Elemental is usually the kid that is forgetten by it's parents whenever they go vacation (a.k.a. new expansion).

then the kid is beaten and abused by the playerbase(paedophile) because blizzard didn't look after their child, disgusting lock 'em up!

[Riistov]

Yes well it's clearly not coming back, why would you still have your mind stuck in something that went away several years ago and isn't coming back? Do you just like complaining?

The fuck does Elemental being OP have to do with literally anything? Is this just more complaining for no reason?

1.) It was 4 years ago (removed in WoD)

2.) Because it made the spec far more viable in high end progression environments, more fun to play, and less of a liability (as it is now in movement heavy fights)

3.) I think the question should be, why are you so dead-set against LB while moving? You're clearly in the minority here.

[Kralljin]

3.) I think the question should be, why are you so dead-set against LB while moving? You're clearly in the minority here.

I think the greater issue is the simple lack of replacement for it's removal.

Blizzard still hasn't spilled the beans where Elemental is supposed to be good outside of (burst) AoE, nor does their design reveal one.

[Riistov]

I think the greater issue is the simple lack of replacement for it's removal.

Blizzard still hasn't spilled the beans where Elemental is supposed to be good outside of (burst) AoE, nor does their design reveal one.

I agree, and outside of a few encounters a tier, burst aoe is niche at best.

[Segus1992]

1.) It was 4 years ago (removed in WoD)

2.) Because it made the spec far more viable in high end progression environments, more fun to play, and less of a liability (as it is now in movement heavy fights)

3.) I think the question should be, why are you so dead-set against LB while moving? You're clearly in the minority here.

I wouldn't mind it coming back but I find it ridiculously stupid to hope so hard for it when Blizzard's vision clearly doesn't allow for such a high percentage of movement DPS for casters. It made melee fundamentally bad, and because of that it likely won't return.

It'd be like me advocating for the removal of flying in all parts of the game, or the removal of transmogrification - not happening, so pretty much a waste of time.

[ZerFunk]

Eles should get Storm Spirit's ult:
Teleport forward using maelstrom per sec, no cooldown.
boom, ele is fun again.

[Knifttar]

I occasionally gave my opinion here.

ele is totally useless in raid. If you want a top-end raid, you must give up ele immediately.
There were a lot of people who said I was pessimistic, but now I think I'm right.

This spec has a problem from concept. At bfa Blizzard intends to strengthen ele's AOE.
For example, epicenter is back in BFA. Blizzard does not remember why the epicenter changed in WoD.
This means that ele will only be stronger when you deal with 5 targets.

Think simple. The strength of AOE is not the virtue of good range dps.
What if you have 3 targets or 2targets deals? You are the perfect useless spec.
However, most people expect range dps to be good for spread 2 or 3 target deals.

Blizzard said that it strengthens the strength of each spec.
This means that ele will be an incompetent spec.

If your time and enthusiasm is in doubt, quit this spec.
Ele is no possibility of improvement.

this is a horrible opinion

[Ele man]

this is a horrible opinion

I want to save your time and passion. Of course, I also like ele. But that does not mean that performance is good.
If you think my words are really wrong, count how many ele spec is in the top raid team.
Probably zero. Because top raid team has already abandoned ele.

I think most of the comments here (like moving lb) are mostly misleading.
Those things are not important. The important thing is where the strength of the ele is, whether it helps the raid team.
Does moving lb increase the strength of ele? Of course, you'll be comfortable with your dealing. But other people do not think so.
They only think of your final dps.

I think that the cooldown of reincarnation should be 5m. Otherwise, WR totem should be the base.
this spec does not contribute to the raid team.

Blizzard needs to improve on this. The way of dealing and the concept are the same, what improvement is there?

[krl]

I want to save your time and passion. Of course, I also like ele. But that does not mean that performance is good.
If you think my words are really wrong, count how many ele spec is in the top raid team.
Probably zero. Because top raid team has already abandoned ele.

You are right in your observation, but the reason is not currently DPS. Top raid teams who progress need specs who are resilient and have utilities to do mechanics. ToS was a major offender for requiring this. Elem, as a spec "fantasy" has average ST and good aoe burst, but not to the point of brokenness (it will not be selected for that).

However it is not resilient, to the point externals or Combat Rez were needed for them during ToS progression. And it brings nothing to pass mechanics.

So as a spec, it is intrinsically not adapted to high end raiding.

[Yhcti]

Bring back lightning bolt on the move and i'll never reroll from my Shaman ever again. #notgonnahappen