Can we please get single minded fury back.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

So what would the difference between 1h and 2h be then? Just transmogrify your weapons into the shitty small 2handers that exists

Simple, problem solved.

[Saberstrike]

There's probably no gameplay reasons to bring it back; But like 9/10 two-handers look extremely stupid when used with one hand. I made a proposal in Legion beta (that was, of course, ignored) -- to create a new weapon class called 'Bastard Sword' just for fury artifact, and make it t-moggable into both 1handers and 2-handers.

PS many one-handers now are as big, if not bigger than two-handers. Case in point -- Prot Warrior artifact vs Arms Warrior artifact (base skin). Prot one hander is BIGGER. Why? No clue; But it's a fact, so the 'one handers look wimpy' argument doesn't even fly any more.

[endersblade]

Titan's Grip is the whole reason I went Fury with my War in the first place. Making SMF as an option would be fine, but that's just one more thing they'd need to balance. On top of that, the lore aspect of someone dual wielding two massive 2h weapons doing the same or comparable damage as someone with two measly 1h weapons is...well, laughable to say the least.

[Valkaneer]

Maybe in the past sure but its been so long, SMF in MoP and WoD was not really any different then titans grip, more or less the same experience.. which is why they prob decided to get rid of it in legion and keep TG because its unique.

That is because they nerfed it because they seemingly didn't want SMF to be as good or better than TG. After they removed the speed from Flurry (which is was Furys defining talent), Fury became blah. That's when I stopped playing it. It's kind of the day my Warrior died, I have a rule I always play by for my main, and that is that I like 2 out of 3 specs. If not it's not my main. While Prot is alright, you can only have 2 per raid, and LFR is well the suck for prot, I won't do it. So with the Flurry change my warrior kind of died.

- - - Updated - - -

Titan's Grip is the whole reason I went Fury with my War in the first place. Making SMF as an option would be fine, but that's just one more thing they'd need to balance. On top of that, the lore aspect of someone dual wielding two massive 2h weapons doing the same or comparable damage as someone with two measly 1h weapons is...well, laughable to say the least.

Not at all, when I swing 2 x your speed I do the same amount of damage. How I look at it is more like "when someone swings at half my speed and does comparable damage it's laughable....."

Hold on I hear an Outlaw rogue coughing over there...

[Saberstrike]

the lore aspect of someone dual wielding two massive 2h weapons doing the same or comparable damage as someone with two measly 1h weapons is...well, laughable to say the least.

I counter your 'lore' argument with a 'realism' argument. Swinging two swords IRL won't do 'more' damage than swinging one sword. Just like increasing the size of a sword won't make it that much deadlier, if the swordsman is skilled enough to use it. Both those tropes were created by videogames; The main advantage of bigger weapons is reach, which is also why you use them with both hands -- unless you go something like spartan style spear + shield. One hand simply won't have as much effective reach regardless of how big a sword you'll take; Plus, using bigger weapons means that you'll take more time to recover your balance after you strike or miss, leading to a reasonable outcome of someone with more 'reasonably' sized weapons able to cut off both your arms while you raise them for another swing.

I could also bring up how IRL dual wielding wasn't a real thing and 9/10 times it happened you'd use a dagger in the offhand to parry and distract your opponent, rather than another massive weapon which will most likely just make you confused and dead quicker than if you'd focused on swinging one sword properly.

/Weapon rant over

[Jngizu]

I counter your 'lore' argument with a 'realism' argument. Swinging two swords IRL won't do 'more' damage than swinging one sword. Just like increasing the size of a sword won't make it that much deadlier, if the swordsman is skilled enough to use it. Both those tropes were created by videogames; The main advantage of bigger weapons is reach, which is also why you use them with both hands -- unless you go something like spartan style spear + shield. One hand simply won't have as much effective reach regardless of how big a sword you'll take; Plus, using bigger weapons means that you'll take more time to recover your balance after you strike or miss, leading to a reasonable outcome of someone with more 'reasonably' sized weapons able to cut off both your arms while you raise them for another swing.

I could also bring up how IRL dual wielding wasn't a real thing and 9/10 times it happened you'd use a dagger in the offhand to parry and distract your opponent, rather than another massive weapon which will most likely just make you confused and dead quicker than if you'd focused on swinging one sword properly.

/Weapon rant over

I agree with everything, but the other advantage, aside from reach, bigger weapons have, is the weight. But they are a lot slower.

[Bigbazz]

Titan's Grip is the whole reason I went Fury with my War in the first place. Making SMF as an option would be fine, but that's just one more thing they'd need to balance. On top of that, the lore aspect of someone dual wielding two massive 2h weapons doing the same or comparable damage as someone with two measly 1h weapons is...well, laughable to say the least.

We've already discussed two possible ways that would cause it to no longer need to be balanced separately, one of those solutions is already in BFA, so you're talking about a non-issue here. Also from a lore perspective, someone with 2 smaller weapons is wielding them with more speed and finesse, it's completely flawed logic (or a lack of logic) to think that just because the weapons are bigger that they will do more damage. Don't forget someone has to swing those weapons, they aren't gonna swing themselves.

[Zenny]

Titan's Grip for me is the defining trait for Fury. Otherwise we come off as the dudes without magical powers compared to Paladins and Death Knights. Titan's Grip gives the impression that while a Warrior might not have the powers that Paladins and Death Knights have, they make up for it with overwhelming strength.

The problem for me is that Arms and Protection still has that missing element that might sets them apart from being weaker then a Paladin or Death Knight. Not sure what can be done there.

[Carnedge]

I don't understand the "I like TG so SMF shouldn't be an option" argument.

Why can't we have both?

[Azerate]

The problem is, things are never equally good, and as a result, never really optional if you want to optimalize your playstyle.

Bringing in both options would once again, force half of the fury warriors to go for one of the two options despite preferring the other one. It's enough if one of the options is 3% dps increase and it becomes the mandatory version.

Single Minded Fury, as well as stacking 'Executioner's Precision' were the two things which ultimately killed warrior in Cataclysm for me and made me quit the game. Well, that and other factors, but it certainly played a role.

Of course it depends who you ask, but most of the people I ever knew were disgusted with the idea of dual wielding 1hs as a warrior. I actually find it surprising how many apologists for SMF are here.

[Xeley]

The problem is, things are never equally good, and as a result, never really optional if you want to optimalize your playstyle.

Bringing in both options would once again, force half of the fury warriors to go for one of the two options despite preferring the other one. It's enough if one of the options is 3% dps increase and it becomes the mandatory version.

Single Minded Fury, as well as stacking 'Executioner's Precision' were the two things which ultimately killed warrior in Cataclysm for me and made me quit the game. Well, that and other factors, but it certainly played a role.

Of course it depends who you ask, but most of the people I ever knew were disgusted with the idea of dual wielding 1hs as a warrior. I actually find it surprising how many apologists for SMF are here.

To be fair, the whole discussion when it comes to taste is rather stupid. It's a pure aesthetic choice. The idea that SMF is disgusting is equally as stupid as saying TG is goofy and idiotic (me included). Both arguments are purely a matter of taste really if you disregard the DPS factor. Hence why giving the transmog option is a fine way to go.

I have found though that advocates for TG usually are the same guys that picked Warrior with the argument of "I CAN NOW SMASH THINGS LIKE CONAN WOOO", as well as playing Tauren/Orc or some other bulky muscly race that just emits testosterone all over the place. And yeah, that's not my cup of tea. But hey, what the hell do I know

EDIT: But then again, both your experience and my experience of advocates for both sides are purely anecdotal evidence from us both, meaning that "evidence" is pretty much worthless and doesn't mean anything at all.

[Syegfryed]

i cant rly see how titan's grip is so unique in fury, name one warrior in lore who use 2 2H, varian? DW, Garrosh pre gorehowl? DW, Malkorok? DW

the only i can't think of is when Eitrigg became your Follower and use 2 small 2H than look like one hand

[Azerate]

To be fair, the whole discussion when it comes to taste is rather stupid. It's a pure aesthetic choice. The idea that SMF is disgusting is equally as stupid as saying TG is goofy and idiotic (me included). Both arguments are purely a matter of taste really if you disregard the DPS factor. Hence why giving the transmog option is a fine way to go.

I have found though that advocates for TG usually are the same guys that picked Warrior with the argument of "I CAN NOW SMASH THINGS LIKE CONAN WOOO", as well as playing Tauren/Orc or some other bulky muscly race that just emits testosterone all over the place. And yeah, that's not my cup of tea. But hey, what the hell do I know

EDIT: But then again, both your experience and my experience of advocates for both sides are purely anecdotal evidence from us both, meaning that "evidence" is pretty much worthless and doesn't mean anything at all.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have anything against people who want SMF.

I just recognize that bringing it into the game creates an issue of which is better. And one will always be better then the other, there's no way to tune them to exactly the same end result. Thus forcing people to play one or the other.

[Xeley]

Don't get me wrong. I don't have anything against people who want SMF.

I just recognize that bringing it into the game creates an issue of which is better. And one will always be better then the other, there's no way to tune them to exactly the same end result. Thus forcing people to play one or the other.

Well yeah, very few in this thread that I remember actually advocated for adding SMF as a spell/talent again. The general idea has been the transmog option which bypasses the balancing issue, right? And hey, there is nothing wrong with giving alternatives. We have in general several DPS speccs per class where one will always be "the best", the answer to that isn't to remove the other speccs, right? Imagine removing Fury as a whole, because Arms is just "better". Sure, you and I might play what's "best". But that's no reason to not offer alternatives.

[kail]

I don't understand the "I like TG so SMF shouldn't be an option" argument.

Why can't we have both?

I like options as well, but in reality it's hard to make it an option when it comes to balance. One is going to be better than another due to mathematics. Easy fix would be to allow fury warriors to transmog to 1h.

[Zenny]

I have found though that advocates for TG usually are the same guys that picked Warrior with the argument of "I CAN NOW SMASH THINGS LIKE CONAN WOOO", as well as playing Tauren/Orc or some other bulky muscly race that just emits testosterone all over the place. And yeah, that's not my cup of tea. But hey, what the hell do I know

Being a raging berserker is kind of Fury's thing. This has been the case since Vanilla and heavily pushed in Legion. This doesn't mean that Fury Warriors are mindless idiots, but they are Warriors that ignore finesse for overwhelming strength and rage.

[tankbug]

I have found though that advocates for TG usually are the same guys that picked Warrior with the argument of "I CAN NOW SMASH THINGS LIKE CONAN WOOO", as well as playing Tauren/Orc or some other bulky muscly race that just emits testosterone all over the place. And yeah, that's not my cup of tea. But hey, what the hell do I know

Is there any other kind? I guess you have the "honorable knight"-warrior, but I suppose they go arms or even paladin.
Of course there are a lot of these small-race warriors, but I figured that there were no fantasy decision behind that, just a preference in race.

[therealstegblob]

Meh. An an option maybe, but Titan's Grip is Fury's thing. Without it we aren't any different from the dozen of 1h dual-wielding specs in the game.

Titan's Grip has only been a thing since WotLK, though. Fury seemed to be just fine before then (or, at least, fine enough aside from early WoW's bad balancing in general).

[Eraganos]

Titan's Grip has only been a thing since WotLK, though. Fury seemed to be just fine before then (or, at least, fine enough aside from early WoW's bad balancing in general).

has only been a thing since wotlk?

Vanilla and BC= 2
Wotlk, mop, cata, wod and legion =5
thats more than "has only been a thing"
it defines us furys.
you can balance everything around everything.

[Xeley]

Is there any other kind? I guess you have the "honorable knight"-warrior, but I suppose they go arms or even paladin.
Of course there are a lot of these small-race warriors, but I figured that there were no fantasy decision behind that, just a preference in race.

Not so much honorable knight more than just a knight. If we are delving into identity territory. And yeah, I play as Arms. I think I wrote it earlier, but I actually detest Fury as a specc and avoid playing it whenever I can. So I'm not even sure why I'm here advocating for SMF when in reality I wouldn't play Fury even if they brought it back Haha I dislike that brutish and simple mindset and pretty much always stay away from it if possible which is also one reason I hate horde. Only reason I play horde is because all my friends are, so yeah.