Battle for Azeroth - Discussion/Changes ALPHA

[Khain]

Dude forget AMZ, it's never coming back, raid wide DR is healer utility not dps, grip and thoughtsize are great utilities for DK.

[Deleted]

as long as sindragosa 5min still remain then do as they please

[Deleted]

1 thing i hope is they remove the wound mechanic from unholy, it doesnt fit imo and i never was a fan of it, id rather get my necrotic plague and dot extending festering strike, unholy is susposed to be dot spec aswell, but we lost pretyy much all dot focus/maneagement.
Or atleast make it a talent to remove them and get dot or ghoul manegament(pre legion dark transformation). And bloodtap for controlled runes on demand.

[elaina]

Honestly, if they kept the sindy 5m (if only for the graphic), and give us thoughtseize and execute style soul reaper, I would be ecstatic. I would even settle for baking the frostwyrm graphic into BoS activation.

[kaintk]

seems that dark dwarf will not be dk too lol

dear B-L-I-Z-Z-A-R-D ..stop being lazy and hiding yourself behind 'THE LORE'

just dont give the reward for people going for dk or just make the zone level 20-25 or whatever lol

[MHMabrito]

give the reward

Do you think you deserve a reward for playing a class..?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don’t get how this is lazy.

[Kikazz]

lore wise ohnestly should have nothing to do with it.

if it did they wouldnt have made the current allied races start at 20.

its a major lore break.

Hi Mr Void Elf, please go through Vanilla/BC/Wotlk/Cata/MOP/draenor Content for the Alliance please, so you can experience the story, although you didnt enter the story till after that.

in all ohnesty you cant have every race be EVERY class.

keeping some normality to the lore should be upheld, in my opinion though,

in any of Warcraft 3, and WOTLK did you see any Zandalari trolls, or Dark Dwarfs, or Fucking Void Elves as Death knights. or better yet Panda death Knights.

it wont happen as it is a Major Lore Break on the Class.

[Noxina]

Do you think you deserve a reward for playing a class..?

Do you think we should be punished for playing a class..?

And with all zones scaling, I honestly don't see an issue with smacking a lvl 20 DK into the DK starting zone, if that zone is so damn important to them after all these years.



Anyways, looks like our combat ress now cost 30 RP? "Nah, I don't have CR on my bars, it is a DPS loss to use it, some other class can do that!" I can allready hear the noob DKs come up with that excuse to why they suck and never use their CR

[kaintk]

Do you think you deserve a reward for playing a class..?

the transmog set for playing the race from 20 to 110

i mean they should just not give the set reward if you play dk with the new race since it would begin at level 55, whatever ;p

[GetEquipped]

Don't have Alpha access, but watching streams, keeping up to date on builds. Looking at the changes so far; it seems pretty reasonable. (From Blood and Unholy, don't play Frost ATM) and we're somewhat "lucky" with almost minimal changes and getting some artifact abilities baseline (Consumption and Sindragosa) However, I know everything is tentative and can change overnight.

Most numbers look as part of the stat squish with some mild casualties.

Positives: Seems like our Artifact abilities will be baseline, and Apoc being a T1 Artifact trait. Also, We get a Purge ability, increase in armor baseline, and the change from bone shield from Melee Attack and not "Swing" may have different interactions with shields, parries, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "nerfs" outside squish:

For the Marrowrend/Bone Shield change: Blizz wants Tanks to rely on Armor for the boss and Magic damage for "unavoidable" Raid-wide damage. We got to keep AMS (Though value is not yet given) for some mild cheese and soak.

CC Changes-Slow in Heart Strike being 20%/Remorseless winter only rooting/Tightening Grasp slowing for less: Blizz is also looking to tone down CC a good amount. Belves Racial (AOE Silence) was also hit. I think this is almost that they were too good for M+ (Same goes for Red Thirst)

------------------------------------------

But yeah, it seems like the class is probably going to be untouched going into the new expansion, which is probably the best thing to hear at the moment.

[Deleted]

Blood dk's got talent reworks.

1st tier - blooddrinker, heartbreaker and rune strike (2 charge 45s CD grants 1 rune)
2nd tier - rapid decomposition (bp and Dnd deal damage 15% more often) Consumption and haemostasis (each enemy hit by BB increases DS healing. stacks 5 times
3rd tier - will of necropolis, anti-magic barrier and rune tap
4th tier - tightening grasp grip of the dead (DnD movementspend reduction by 90% decay 10% a second) and march of the damned
5th tier - foul bulwark ossuary (increase rp by 25 and bs stacks by 5) and tombstone
6th tier - voracious (DS grants 15% leech for 6s) bloodworms and mark of blood.
7th tier - purgatory, red thirst and bonestorm.

[Frolk]

The 15% leech is such a no-brainer compared to the other 2 "choices", expecting nerf to 10% or lower

Some how they decided to NERF Mark of blood, an skill nobody was using already, are they so out of touch?

Haemostasis is pretty good, easy +50% dmg/heal for next DS in dungeons on trash and some bosses, seems way to strong, expecting nerf to 7.5% or 5% from 10%.

[Arawrabearialis]

Haemostasis is pretty good, easy +50% dmg/heal for next DS in dungeons on trash and some bosses, seems way to strong, expecting nerf to 7.5% or 5% from 10%.

It's basically the legendary shoulders.

[Deleted]

Seems like they are gutting our resources generation. We're losing Shackles of Bryandor, Rapid Decomposition no longer grants rp, and Ossuary no longer reduces Death Strike cost. I strongly believe we'll be even more haste dependant in BFA, and I expect a super slow and clunky playstyle.
Rune Strike seems weird as the only resource generator, especially when you have to give up Blooddrinker for it. I seriously can't get why they just don't give us Runic Empowerment or Runic Corruption.

Foul Bulwark nerf is nonsense: 10% health at max stack is way too low, especially considering there is no reason to stay at >5 stacks anymore, and it can't compete with the 25rp increase of Ossuary. Mark of Blood nerfed despite being never used in the entire expansion made me laugh. Grip of the Dead is a dishonest move since D&D slow was baked into Tightening Grasp, but now they force us to choose between shorter cd on mass grip or slow on D&D.

Hemostasis, Rune Tap and Voracius are basically cookie cutter, and the other talents in their respective rows can't even remotely compete. Especially Rune Tap, now free, is simply better than the other options in any scenario.
Also, seeing that Wraith Walk is not gone yet makes me sad.

Overall this first pass with Blood makes me really uncorfortable and worried. Seems like Legion Alpha all over again, with glaring issues that shouldn't even ever happen, and a confusing direction for the spec.

[Highwhale]

Rune Strike needs lower recharge or more runes per strike otherwise its shit. Worse than Rune Tap actually.

Nerfed Foul Bulwark and New Ossuary in same row? LMAO Blizzard. First time I'm thinking about taking Tombstone since there zero reasons to keep more Bone Shield charges.

Worst part - Red Thirst and Bonestorm in same row. Why Blizzard?

PS Vampiric Blood + Bonestorm + Consumption + Blood Plague - well atleast we still kings of trash...

[Hashcrypt]

Rune Strike needs lower recharge or more runes per strike otherwise its shit. Worse than Rune Tap actually.

Nerfed Foul Bulwark and New Ossuary in same row? LMAO Blizzard. First time I'm thinking about taking Tombstone since there zero reasons to keep more Bone Shield charges.

Worst part - Red Thirst and Bonestorm in same row. Why Blizzard?

PS Vampiric Blood + Bonestorm + Consumption + Blood Plague - well atleast we still kings of trash...

Taking into account both mythic raiding and M+, Blood DK is arguably the best tank in the game. Given how all tanks are getting nerfed hardcore, I doubt Blood will suddenly be relegated to trash kings.

[Faradin]

Some thoughts on the talent changes:

56: While the concept of Rune Strike doesn't seem terrible (Blood Tap attached to an attack), 1 rune every 45 seconds doesn't look that impressive on paper; especially if Blooddrinker continues to hit like a truck in BfA. Heartbreaker is still the same; it can co-exist with Blooddrinker as a valid alternative in AoE, while BD is better on single target, with the right balancing. Even then, is Rune Strike really filling a role that is any different than Blooddrinker, assuming that Rune Strike was buffed to provide comparable damage and healing?

57: Rapid Decomposition loses a lot of its' luster without the RP generation and Consumption only really functions as a substitute Death Strike against large groups, so they both look really weak when compared to Hemostasis (which simply looks like a stronger talent in all situations). RD and Hemostasis both provide an increase to sustained healing and damage; numbers aside, their design may overlap too much for them to co-exist as long as Hemostasis scales with number of targets. Consumption provides burst healing and damage, but, unless they want to make it hit like a truck (basically giving it the Blooddrinker treatment), the skill is pretty lackluster.

58: Mitigation Row. Will of the Necropolis suffers from the same problems it always has, you aren't getting any mitigation value out of it if you stay above 35% health and it doesn't increase your EHP if one hit takes you from 40% to dead. Maybe it would have some utility in raid encounters where EHP is important, if it wasn't paired, yet again, with Rune Tap (a buffed Rune Tap, at that). New Anti-Magic Barrier has a more useful looking design than the old version, but, unless you really want to deny the application debuffs for another 1.5 seconds, I don't see when you'd ever take it over Rune Tap. A lot of talents trying to accomplish the same thing, except one does the job better almost all of the time. WotN would serve a more useful role if it provided its' damage reduction on hits that pushed you below 35% (in some capacity) while AMB has a design that functions too much like a mostly worse Rune Tap for magic damage only. They'd only both be valid options if AMB was obviously better at magic damage mitigation than Rune Tap, which, at the moment, it doesn't look like it is.

60: Utility row; it's basically a nerfed version of the old 70 row, where we lose Tremble Before Me and Tightening Grasp is split into two separate talents. This is the first row where all three talents would see use in different situations; so, it might be something of a success design-wise, even if people are sad about Tightening Grasp being nerfed. If Gorefiend's Grasp cooldown reduction is going to be on its' own, the talent would look more impactful if it reduced the cooldown by more than 30 seconds.

75: Bone Shield Row? So, Foul Bulwark is here and it has been nerfed by 50%, which is kind of a big deal. We also have Tombstone, no changes. Finally, a nerfed Ossuary that trades the 5 RP Death Strike cost reduction for 5 more maximum stacks of bone shield (which doesn't really do anything since Foul Bulwark AND Tombstone now share the same row). There's not really a point to Ossuary without the DS cost reduction, unless it gave a very substantial amount of max RP. In fact, with Foul Bulwark only giving an extra ~8% max HP, on average, Tombstone might just be the strongest talent on the row. What a time to be alive. Design-wise FB can co-exist with Tombstone and Ossuary if the numbers were balanced well.

90: Self-healing-based row. Voracious with its' 15% leech on Death Strike, seems like a decent source of self-HPS. However, Blood Worms doesn't require critical strikes to proc anymore, so, who knows, maybe the worm generation will be enough to make it serve as a reasonable alternative that accomplishes mostly the same thing with some negligible worm dps on top. All the same, I still see no reason why anyone would ever take mark of blood unless we run into a very peculiar raid encounter. Same problem as the level 58 row; given the talent design, either Voracious or Blood Worms is going to be better in all situations.

100: Basically the same with a Red Thirst that has been nerfed by more than 40% (after accounting for the loss of RP generation from Rapid Decomposition and Legendary Bracers replacing Blood Mirror. On paper, Red Thirst and Blood Mirror do the same thing, provide more defensive cooldowns, so this row may be even less changed than it appears at first glance. It's not the worst designed row in the world, but Purgatory and Blood Mirror/Red Thirst kind of have a strange trade-off relationship, while Bonestorm has to contend with the fact that you're missing out on two death strikes to cast it (in addition to the fact that emptying your entire RP pool on it always feels iffy, since RP is basically your second health bar). Maybe they should tweak Bonestorm, have Red Thirst replace Mark of Blood, and put a different talent in the 100 row?

At face value, it looks like we'll have just as much useless talents in this version than we did before, maybe more.

[Highwhale]

Some thoughts on the talent changes:

56: While the concept of Rune Strike doesn't seem terrible (Blood Tap attached to an attack), 1 rune every 45 seconds doesn't look that impressive on paper; especially if Blooddrinker continues to hit like a truck in BfA. Heartbreaker is still the same; it can co-exist with Blooddrinker as a valid alternative in AoE, while BD is better on single target, with the right balancing. Even then, is Rune Strike really filling a role that is any different than Blooddrinker, assuming that Rune Strike was buffed to provide comparable damage and healing?

I think they should make something that reduce remaining recharge time for RS. Like every used rune reduce remaining RS recharge by 3 sec. Or simply buff it to 2 runes per strike.

75: Bone Shield Row? So, Foul Bulwark is here and it has been nerfed by 50%, which is kind of a big deal. We also have Tombstone, no changes. Finally, a nerfed Ossuary that trades the 5 RP Death Strike cost reduction for 5 more maximum stacks of bone shield (which doesn't really do anything since Foul Bulwark AND Tombstone now share the same row). There's not really a point to Ossuary without the DS cost reduction, unless it gave a very substantial amount of max RP. In fact, with Foul Bulwark only giving an extra ~8% max HP, on average, Tombstone might just be the strongest talent on the row. What a time to be alive. Design-wise FB can co-exist with Tombstone and Ossuary if the numbers were balanced well.

IMHO its better to put Ossuary outside this row so it could work with both - FB and Tombstone. And allow Tombstone to consume up to 10 charges.

100: Basically the same with a Red Thirst that has been nerfed by more than 40% (after accounting for the loss of RP generation from Rapid Decomposition and Legendary Bracers replacing Blood Mirror. On paper, Red Thirst and Blood Mirror do the same thing, provide more defensive cooldowns, so this row may be even less changed than it appears at first glance. It's not the worst designed row in the world, but Purgatory and Blood Mirror/Red Thirst kind of have a strange trade-off relationship, while Bonestorm has to contend with the fact that you're missing out on two death strikes to cast it (in addition to the fact that emptying your entire RP pool on it always feels iffy, since RP is basically your second health bar). Maybe they should tweak Bonestorm, have Red Thirst replace Mark of Blood, and put a different talent in the 100 row?

I don't know. Bonestorm under VB is basically 10 sec of invisibility in big trash fights. Deals tons of damage and self healing.

[Deleted]

75: Bone Shield Row? So, Foul Bulwark is here and it has been nerfed by 50%, which is kind of a big deal. We also have Tombstone, no changes. Finally, a nerfed Ossuary that trades the 5 RP Death Strike cost reduction for 5 more maximum stacks of bone shield (which doesn't really do anything since Foul Bulwark AND Tombstone now share the same row). There's not really a point to Ossuary without the DS cost reduction, unless it gave a very substantial amount of max RP. In fact, with Foul Bulwark only giving an extra ~8% max HP, on average, Tombstone might just be the strongest talent on the row. What a time to be alive. Design-wise FB can co-exist with Tombstone and Ossuary if the numbers were balanced well.

Ossuary is the best talent of the row, and the only one with maximum gameplay potential. 25 extra rp (wih the +10 of VotTW) allows to pool exactly 3 Death Strike, or at leats more flexibility in rp usage. Bone Shield stack cap increased offers tremendous potential in raids: when you're not tanking you can stack up to 15, and when it's your turn to tank you basically have 30+ sec of bone shield coverage that allow you to focus HS/Blodddrinker + Death Strike.

Foul Boulwark shined in Legion because it had double the value, and synergized with Souldrinker.
If we go by Legion gameplay, you will always play between 6 and 10 stacks of bones , which equal to 12-20% maximum health at all times that scales with Souldrinker bonus.
Assuming you would mantain the same playstyle in BFA, and I doubt it since there no longer reason to always stack a 5 stacks minimum, you woul get between 6-10% max health at all times. It is...unimpressive at best.

Tombstone may be more appealing now, but if things are left like this there will be no real reason to pick it when Rune Tap is around.

90: Self-healing-based row. Voracious with its' 15% leech on Death Strike, seems like a decent source of self-HPS. However, Blood Worms doesn't require critical strikes to proc anymore, so, who knows, maybe the worm generation will be enough to make it serve as a reasonable alternative that accomplishes mostly the same thing with some negligible worm dps on top. All the same, I still see no reason why anyone would ever take mark of blood unless we run into a very peculiar raid encounter. Same problem as the level 58 row; given the talent design, either Voracious or Blood Worms is going to be better in all situations.

Sadly Bloodworms RNG nature will always make them a B-rank talent, and next to 15% leech with high uptime it almost looks like a joke. When it was baseline it was cool and everything, but it will never be able to compete with other talents in the same row unless they make it disgunstigly op.
Mark of Blood never saw uses in Legion, and I doubt BFA will have encounters when it can shines, especially after this nonsense nerf.