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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    The thing is though I did want to play a hunter I had Mained a hunter from tbc-wrath and played it as my secondary in cata. I didn’t like the changes they had made going into cats and after. Whole expan of trying to adjust I didn’t find the class fun any more and dropped it. Hunter has always been the class I wanted to play it’s the cata-wod playstils I didn’t.

    I’ve also always liked mm and bm more then survival so I can’t say I agree, I like bm as it is for the most part.
    I didn't like all the Cata changes either but at least the class\spec resembled themselves, and they ALL were ranged still (I had a number of friends quit around that time because the retards at blizzard can't get it though their head people hate relearning there classes every expansion) but this BS was enough to make me quit playing WOW altogether and I started when you had to be out of combat to drop traps.

  2. #142
    Immortal Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    cata-wod was the peak of SV so its no wonder you dont understand why people want it back. MM was pretty much least played spec in pve that whole time until the HFC tier with instant aimed shot that basically made it play like SV
    Mabye it was the peak for you but it wasn’t for me, by the end of cata hunter felt bad to me tried to get back into it in both mop and wod but didn’t enjoy it at all. Survival going meele made me try it again and I liked all 3 specs on legion and am hoping I’ll like them in bfa as I really don’t want to drop hunters again.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Being a cat/rouge doesn’t equal being a warrior/dk, you can’t strip one side down to basics and not the other. If all meele are just meele all range are just range.
    That's the whole reason you don't understand then. You are assuming I don't like melee because it's melee. No I don't like melee because I don't like chasing monsters all over the place every time the tank decides to move a few steps. I don't like most of the casters in the game because I have never liked playing magic classes and watching cast bars makes the game feel slow to me (hence why I don't like MM). When wow launched warrior abilities were all on next attack (except mortal strike), when I tried playing one I got bored. I did however enjoy rogue because everything happened right away. That's how I felt about the difference between sv and mm. If I'm not playing a tank (in any game for that matter) I usually play a bow using class and if I don't like either, I stop playing the game. Hence why I stopped playing hunter after I finished the mage tower as bm on the first week.. lol. In ffxiv all abilities are instant and I played paladin and bard. Bard never felt like a caster to me in that game but i was sad that it was more of a support class once it got nerfed. You complained about not liking hunter playstyle post cata, I loved playing survival from t6 all the way to legion. Now it's enough for me to not even resub.
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  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikanaro View Post
    That's the whole reason you don't understand then. You are assuming I don't like melee because it's melee. No I don't like melee because I don't like chasing monsters all over the place every time the tank decides to move a few steps. I don't like most of the casters in the game because I have never liked playing magic classes and watching cast bars makes the game feel slow to me (hence why I don't like MM). When wow launched warrior abilities were all on next attack (except mortal strike), when I tried playing one I got bored. I did however enjoy rogue because everything happened right away. That's how I felt about the difference between sv and mm. If I'm not playing a tank (in any game for that matter) I usually play a bow using class and if I don't like either, I stop playing the game. Hence why I stopped playing hunter after I finished the mage tower as bm on the first week.. lol. In ffxiv all abilities are instant and I played paladin and bard. Bard never felt like a caster to me in that game but i was sad that it was more of a support class once it got nerfed. You complained about not liking hunter playstyle post cata, I loved playing survival from t6 all the way to legion. Now it's enough for me to not even resub.
    I’m not assuming any thing, not like if a spec or class is fine but just saying go play a different meele class is the same as saying go play a different range class. If you strip the rolls of any context then sure it doesn’t matter which one you play but a ret pally is no more a meele hunter then a mage is a ranged hunter:

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by aikanaro View Post
    Range specs not equal to ranged weapon specs... I can actually argue there is only 1 ranged non caster spec right now. I do not like hard casting and standing still so mm is out, bm is boring and I've never liked the feel of doing no damage and being reliant on a pet, so that's out. I've never advocated deleting or changing the melee spec.. I just want to play like I used to.

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    He said they can't balance that kind of play and I was saying square managed to do it, so can bliz.
    But they are completely different games, the combat in my view feels completely different from one another.

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    WoW just isn't designed to deal with ultra-mobile combat, it was pretty much universally hated when DH's had to use momentum, and that's not even that fast paced

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    We were first and you gleefully cheered on Blizzard stealing our spec: the ONLY spec with poisoned arrows and explosive munitions. Now you can't stomach the idea of the same happening to you. That makes you the selfish one here.

    I also get a kick whenever a Survival apologist defends ranged Survival getting removed because it was apparently just a slightly different ranged weapon user while also vehemently defending melee SV becuase it's a slightly different melee weapon user.
    your melodramatics don't make you seem impassioned and stoic. it makes you look ridiculous.

    do what they did for druids, bring in a fourth spec. i do dig the idea of a hunter spec that uses poisoned arrows, maybe dart guns, expanded traps, that kind of shit. that'd be fun as hell to play as a troll(almost shadow hunter fantasy).

    then they could bring in a better melee spec than what they currently have. focus on martial prowess and the bond between master and companion instead of traps and grenades(what kind of fucking idiot would throw grenades at something they're standing right next to?)

  7. #147
    As far as I know, there were very few hunters requesting a melee spec. It looks to be an internal decision on Blizzard's part to do so, so we got one in Legion. Survival hunters who enjoyed their spec were rightfully upset that they lost it. I remember losing Blood as a dps death knight, it's not pleasant.

    Yes, there were people happy with the decision to make Survival a melee spec. I'm one of them. That said, had I had an opportunity for feedback before the decision was made, I'd have asked that they make a 4th spec or make BM the melee spec, since it has a lot less going for the hunter itself. I would never advocate the removal of a spec that others enjoy just for my own gain.

    So, if you are advocating the removal of a spec that others love for your own gain, you're selfish. It's that simple. Either admit that you don't care about others and just want yourself to be happy (in which case you can't accuse others of the same, oh ye hypocrites) or stop trying to get Survival melee removed.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by sololux View Post
    Just do it. Millions would love to see it back.
    nah, thanks.

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  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    your melodramatics don't make you seem impassioned and stoic. it makes you look ridiculous.

    do what they did for druids, bring in a fourth spec.
    There is not going to be a 4th spec for a pure DPS class. The only reason druids have 4 specs is that they have 4 different roles, and they couldn't balance feral without splitting the tank and DPS aspects of it.

    Hunters aren't going to get a 4th spec. So the smart thing would be to bring back the spec that everyone liked and delete the one that nobody plays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogguh View Post
    So, if you are advocating the removal of a spec that others love for your own gain, you're selfish. It's that simple. Either admit that you don't care about others and just want yourself to be happy (in which case you can't accuse others of the same, oh ye hypocrites) or stop trying to get Survival melee removed.
    Another way of putting it is trying to do what satisfies the most people. Should Blizzard cater to the hundred of thousands of people who were playing Ranged survival before they gutted it, or the less than 12,000 people who actually play melee survival?

    Pretty easy decision really.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    There is not going to be a 4th spec for a pure DPS class. The only reason druids have 4 specs is that they have 4 different roles, and they couldn't balance feral without splitting the tank and DPS aspects of it.

    Hunters aren't going to get a 4th spec. So the smart thing would be to bring back the spec that everyone liked and delete the one that nobody plays.

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    Another way of putting it is trying to do what satisfies the most people. Should Blizzard cater to the hundred of thousands of people who were playing Ranged survival before they gutted it, or the less than 12,000 people who actually play melee survival?

    Pretty easy decision really.
    Following blizzards logic then they should have removed the cat mechanics or the bear mechanics. I mean.. that's basically what they did to hunters to make it melee
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  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Less than 2% of hunters are playing Survival now.

    When survival was ranged it was close to 40% at some points. Not only that, but the total class population decreased significantly when Ranged survival was removed. A fair percentage of the hunter player base abandoned the class altogether when survival went Melee.

    "Plenty" more people enjoyed playing survival when it was ranged than the pitifully tiny amount of people who enjoy it now.
    Yeah, the drop in Hunter population is totally due to Ranged survival being removed and not MM and BM also being awful to play.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Eej View Post
    Yeah, the drop in Hunter population is totally due to Ranged survival being removed and not MM and BM also being awful to play.
    bm was always aweful to play to me, and MM has been since they made aimed shot hard casting the best way to play it (cata i think). once survival was changed i stopped playing my hunter and i did demon hunter main since i wanted to try it as a tank.
    Heroes get remembered.... but legends never die!

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Eej View Post
    Yeah, the drop in Hunter population is totally due to Ranged survival being removed and not MM and BM also being awful to play.
    Having only 2 specs to choose from certainly makes a difference. MM's been awful to play before in the game's history too. Luckily back then, we could respec to survival. Now we can't, because it was replaced with a melee spec that is useless to people who play ranged DPS.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Having only 2 specs to choose from certainly makes a difference. MM's been awful to play before in the game's history too. Luckily back then, we could respec to survival. Now we can't, because it was replaced with a melee spec that is useless to people who play ranged DPS.
    MM has enough talents that is should provide 2 viable ways to play. The New explosive shot should gtfo and bring back old ES with lnl and then let another path focus around Aimed Shot. Surv can function as a hybrid without ruining the class. Issue seems more about people not liking the ranged options provided vs hating that melee is an option.

  15. #155
    I don’t know how close you guys follow the alpha but I think the new survival spec has some interesting ideas and mechanics
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  16. #156
    Immortal Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nupomaniac View Post
    I don’t know how close you guys follow the alpha but I think the new survival spec has some interesting ideas and mechanics
    It’s looking pretty nice so far really looking forward to trying it.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodyaxe2018 View Post
    MM has enough talents that is should provide 2 viable ways to play. The New explosive shot should gtfo and bring back old ES with lnl and then let another path focus around Aimed Shot. Surv can function as a hybrid without ruining the class. Issue seems more about people not liking the ranged options provided vs hating that melee is an option.
    I've been saying that since they changed it. And the problem with mm is that there is no option where you don't have to hard cast aimed shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nupomaniac View Post
    I don’t know how close you guys follow the alpha but I think the new survival spec has some interesting ideas and mechanics
    If it ends up similar to redmage in ffxiv it will be fun.
    Heroes get remembered.... but legends never die!

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by aikanaro View Post
    I've been saying that since they changed it. And the problem with mm is that there is no option where you don't have to hard cast aimed shot.

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    If it ends up similar to redmage in ffxiv it will be fun.
    God that and vulnerable is just horribly bad and boring gameplay. I had to go BM on my hunter alt this expansion because i just couldnt be assed to play MM.

    I actually prefer completely facerolling over MM as it is now
    Vanilla fanboy - NOT a purist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freighter View Post
    It is not disfigurement if it looks better.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodyaxe2018 View Post
    MM has enough talents that is should provide 2 viable ways to play.
    That's not how talents work though.

    There's only 1 viable build which is the best DPS build. It doesn't matter if MM has access to black arrow, if black arrow is not the highest DPS talent.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Nupomaniac View Post
    God that and vulnerable is just horribly bad and boring gameplay. I had to go BM on my hunter alt this expansion because i just couldnt be assed to play MM.

    I actually prefer completely facerolling over MM as it is now
    It cannot be impossible for them to make the Aimed/Marked/Steady shot + vulnerable build while also having an ES, lnl, steady shot, maybe Black arrow? (they moved serpent sting, cobra shot and chimera out so there need to be at least 1 other unique skill in there). The 2 paths do not have to function well when mixed since current talents already suck if you do not pick the perfect ones. It has to simply be a lack of resources spent on these specs to offer more than a cookie cutter build.

    They used to be able to offer huge talent trees to shape your spec and now they cannot offer variety with the tiny trees we have now.

    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    That's not how talents work though.

    There's only 1 viable build which is the best DPS build. It doesn't matter if MM has access to black arrow, if black arrow is not the highest DPS talent.
    That is the case but no where does it say that has to be the way it is. Surely it is not unreasonable for the largest sub MMO to provide multiple working ways to play per spec of each class. There have been enough skill purges and talent purges that the system should be able to support this by now.

    Blizzards goal is likely not to provide everyone with these options though and add just enough to get people to play. It clearly was a huge misstep in the past for them to try and make every class unimportant and the specs have suffered for it.
    Last edited by bloodyaxe2018; 2018-02-15 at 05:00 PM.

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