Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    That is not "literally it"; that's "figuratively it if you selectively generalise".

    It's also having Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, Arcane Shot, Black Arrow, and Lock and Load. Marksman had Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot, Kill Shot, and Careful Aim. Literally the only ability they shared was Multi-Shot and the fact they had a casted focus generator. You are so god-damned pathetic that you need to generalise to the maximum degree to try to prove a point and in doing so you gloss over every key mechanical difference between MM and SV. The different toolkits amounted to a different playstyle: MM was much more of a traditional caster ranged spec while SV was about high movement and fast-paced. This is exactly the same as the difference between Arcane and Fire yet you don't bitch that Fire should be melee.
    It's funny because you take the WoD example where Marks got pruned out of his Sting mecanics with Chimera Shot, just add Serpent Sting into MM core spells and you just have a 24sec CD + single target shadow dot more between Marks and Surv.

    Cata had both Steady and Cobra shot avaible but because Marks got talents for Steady shot she was the only spec to use it instead of Cobrashot + Chimera reseting the SS so :
    Cobrashot extending SS for Chimera reapplying SS (both spec put SS almost right as the fight start and forget about this bind)
    Cobra for Steady Shot
    Explo for Chimera (6s cd vs 9s cd with the mandatory glyph)
    Rapid fire as only CD for all 3 spec (was kinda useless for all spec but MM)
    Arcane Shot both spec (pruned in WoD for Marks)
    Insta aimed for LnL
    just add this mongo 24cd spell into surv rotation, on CD use without thinking OMEGALUL.


    BOOM !

    I got gladiator as SV and MM(mostly) since s11 to s16 (disgusting Surv WoD), I know my class and trust me I just kept the same bind and pressed the change spec button almost nothing changed for me.

    I played them both the same way, explo on CD because MoP made LnL stupid and mongo af, keep SS, Aimed proc vs LnL proc when it's shiny + don't forget to click on a 24s cd when it's up. I don't know if this is different spec for you but for me it wasn't.
    Last edited by Trapstarz; 2018-02-18 at 12:41 PM.

  2. #62
    I really like the hunter class but right now I'm not really a fan of any spec...

    1) BM is imo too simple/boring. It is great for progression because it allows you to put your full attention on fight mechanics, but further than that it gets really boring for me. Keep in mind that this is my opinion. I'm not looking to offend anyone.

    2) MM is okay I think, but I don't like that the pet has been killed of completely. I'm a big fan of the choice to not having the pet around but I haven't seen one single MM hunter for the whole duration of legion not using the lonely wolf talent. This is sad for me.

    3) Survival: No comments...

    I would love to see a melee/ranged hybrid spec where you would also use your pet as an important part of the rotation. The incentive for using the melee part of the spec should of course be that it did 10-15 % more damage than the ranged part of the spec. But you would still have the ability to attack the boss when not in melee distance. The goal of this spec would not be to choose between either melee or ranged but to use them both. I think one spec like this would be really cool.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Tidestorm View Post
    I like survival as melee. Having a wide variety of playstyles makes a class more appealing. Didn't really play Hunter at all before Legion. Logged on my surv hunter right now and playing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also as a guy who mains a shaman, I have no idea why having three ranged specs is an absolute necessity.

    Shaman has one ranged spec and does just fine. Wtf can't you be satisfied with two?

    Why are you upset that your class is now more versatile and has wider appeal?
    The biggest issue is Blizzard's tuning. For classes with 3 ranged dps specs (mage, warlock, hunter) normally 1 was best, 1 was a little behind with a different playstyle, and 1 was always far behind. So with hunters if you hated a pet, you could pick the better of mm or survival, or when mm got cast times and you didn't want to be a caster you could bm or survival. This is no longer an option - what do I play if I don't want cast times and want to do damage through my character instead of my pet? Option is gone.

    It gets way worse when you look at PvP - Blizzard for whatever reason made BM completely unplayable in their template and I don't want to be an immobile caster. So instead of having that third ranged option it is now melee. Really bad situation to be in and makes the game very unfun when the entire identity of hunters (non-caster ranged) is removed as a valid option for PvP.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Frogguh View Post
    You intentionally screw players for choosing a spec you don't like. That's the most pathetic thing I've ever heard in-game, and I suspect such pathetic behavior extends into your life beyond the game. Congratulations on being a cancer to the game, good sir.
    Yes, because I was screwed over by Survival going melee. Yeah, it's petty. I don't care. Frankly they still have their spec to play so they are better off anyway. If you people didn't want this level of divisiveness and contempt, you shouldn't have pushed for an existing Hunter spec to go melee.

    If it makes you feel any better, Survival's population is so low that I hardly ever run into a Survival Hunter to kick

    Quote Originally Posted by Joolo View Post
    Pretty same to me difference between those two was just cobra shot and explosive plus one dot survival is Good spec now
    So good that no one plays it.

    Also of all the shitty over-generalisations of the Hunter specs this takes the cake. I guess the difference between Arms and Fury Warrior is basically Bladestorm and a DoT, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibito View Post
    So we who play survival shouldnt enjoy it just cause you other butthurt ranged people dont want it to be melee?
    I mean because of the melee spec people like me never get to play our favourite spec again. That's much worse than getting kicked every now and then, so forgive me for my lack of sympathy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidestorm View Post
    I like survival as melee. Having a wide variety of playstyles makes a class more appealing. Didn't really play Hunter at all before Legion. Logged on my surv hunter right now and playing.
    This is the problem with Survival in a nutshell; non-Hunters taking a chunk out of the Hunter class.

    Melee does not make the class more appealing for veterans of the class who came to it to play ranged specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidestorm View Post
    Also as a guy who mains a shaman, I have no idea why having three ranged specs is an absolute necessity.

    Shaman has one ranged spec and does just fine. Wtf can't you be satisfied with two?

    Why are you upset that your class is now more versatile and has wider appeal?
    Because they were always ranged specs and people developed affinity and familiarity to the one they liked the most. If you had any investment at all in the class beforehand you would understand, but since you are selfish and only care about what you get out of the change you don't.

    Similarly, Elemental has always been ranged and Enhancement has always been melee. That's why it works for Shamans. What makes melee Survival fail is the fact that it was ranged for so long and then abruptly changed to melee. That screwed over the people who liked the ranged spec and failed to draw in a non-negligible number of players for the melee spec. I'm not satisfied with the two ranged specs left because neither of them play anything like Survival did for me; Survival was always my main spec and I don't see why I should be evicted from it to please non-Hunters like you.

    Being able to go melee is not more versatile. I can count on one finger the amount of raid bosses in this game on which you prefer to be melee. It especially means fuck-all when most of the class doesn't want melee in the first place, and it clearly does NOT have wider appeal because now almost no one is playing Survival. Think before you post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trapstarz View Post
    It's funny because you take the WoD example where Marks got pruned out of his Sting mecanics with Chimera Shot, just add Serpent Sting into MM core spells and you just have a 24sec CD + single target shadow dot more between Marks and Surv.
    I did not read the rest of the post. Yes, I based my argument off the WoD iteration. Because that was the latest iteration of ranged SV so it's logical to work from that one. How does it make sense to argue that SV was too similar to MM by going to expansions earlier than that? By that logic, all three specs were too similar because back in Burning Crusade they all had a basic Steady Shot weaving rotation, never mind all the iteration between then and now...

    Also, yes the specs had similarities in MoP. They also had key differences. Whether they were different enough was totally subjective. Frankly, they were three specs of a same class and therefore you should expect there to be some shared mechanics. There is nothing wrong with that as long as they provide unique playstyles and themes, and I would argue they did. If you think they didn't, the solution was to push for new and distinguishing mechanics for each specs... not pruning and mutilating like they did in WoD and Legion. It would have taken less work while being more effective.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Xuen View Post
    Still don't know why they don't just do this:

    Beast Mastery - Based on Rexxar, you have a pet and fight in melee.


    Survival - Based on Alleria, the archer with traps, poisons and stealth.


    Marksmanship - Based on Dwarf mountaineers, wields guns and explosives.
    myself and the majority of the community (i think) agree that BM would have made a better melee spec than suv, even the artifact spear in legion makes more sense for BM and they could have easily replaced Hati with the spirit of a eagle following your around, and made suv a range spec with a pet, traps, bombs, poison stings etc.
    Last edited by valky94; 2018-02-20 at 09:18 AM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    I did not read the rest of the post. Yes, I based my argument off the WoD iteration. Because that was the latest iteration of ranged SV so it's logical to work from that one. How does it make sense to argue that SV was too similar to MM by going to expansions earlier than that? By that logic, all three specs were too similar because back in Burning Crusade they all had a basic Steady Shot weaving rotation, never mind all the iteration between then and now...

    Also, yes the specs had similarities in MoP. They also had key differences. Whether they were different enough was totally subjective. Frankly, they were three specs of a same class and therefore you should expect there to be some shared mechanics. There is nothing wrong with that as long as they provide unique playstyles and themes, and I would argue they did. If you think they didn't, the solution was to push for new and distinguishing mechanics for each specs... not pruning and mutilating like they did in WoD and Legion. It would have taken less work while being more effective.
    Just wanted to point out WoD pruned hunter pretty hard and taking away Sting from Marks made Surv different was a stupid move from blizzard + making ArcS proc SS 1st tick was just lame and made Surv too strong because they couldn't balance the focus cost, spamming ArcS with proc was stupid AF.
    Last edited by Trapstarz; 2018-02-20 at 09:48 AM.

  7. #67
    Pit Lord Ron Burgundy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuen View Post
    Still don't know why they don't just do this:

    Beast Mastery - Based on Rexxar, you have a pet and fight in melee.


    Survival - Based on Alleria, the archer with traps, poisons and stealth.


    Marksmanship - Based on Dwarf mountaineers, wields guns and explosives.
    You're hired
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  8. #68
    I actually would prefer BM to be melee and Survival to be ranged but hey ho! I'm looking forward to how Survival plays out in BfA and how the new artifact system will boost it's playstyle. I'm REALLY hoping they don't make Mongoose Bite the only viable build. Fingers crossed Survival becomes viable with MM/BM!

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Yhcti View Post
    I actually would prefer BM to be melee and Survival to be ranged but hey ho! I'm looking forward to how Survival plays out in BfA and how the new artifact system will boost it's playstyle. I'm REALLY hoping they don't make Mongoose Bite the only viable build. Fingers crossed Survival becomes viable with MM/BM!
    Just out of curiosity, how much DPS difference between MB and the other 2 choices is viable ST wise for you ?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Avenx View Post
    This is my thought as well. Melee makes more sense with BM, and old SV was a really good, fun spec that didn't need that kind of overhaul.
    Same here, thought that at the beginning when they announced the melee SV spec. You could do so much cool new spells for a melee BM!!
    And SV would finally fit into the pathfinder - survival - lone ranger theme.

  11. #71
    Legendary! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    Bit of history.
    Before current specializations were born, every class had 3 paths to emphasis on their 3 most iconic... functionalities, these weren't specializations we know today that are pretty much, more of a stand alone classes than said specializations.
    *snip*
    No.

    /10chars
    I'm not a defender of Blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupid.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Trapstarz View Post
    Just out of curiosity, how much DPS difference between MB and the other 2 choices is viable ST wise for you ?
    As minimal as possible I just hate the mongoose bite play style. I'd happily sacrifice DPS if it meant I didn't have to use it. I'm not a hard-core raider so it makes little difference to me. However if it's like 10-20% dps loss not using it then I'll swap to MM/BM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Yhcti View Post
    As minimal as possible I just hate the mongoose bite play style. I'd happily sacrifice DPS if it meant I didn't have to use it. I'm not a hard-core raider so it makes little difference to me. However if it's like 10-20% dps loss not using it then I'll swap to MM/BM.
    It's seems it will be around 10% and not more tbh

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Trapstarz View Post
    Just wanted to point out WoD pruned hunter pretty hard and taking away Sting from Marks made Surv different was a stupid move from blizzard + making ArcS proc SS 1st tick was just lame and made Surv too strong because they couldn't balance the focus cost, spamming ArcS with proc was stupid AF.
    This is also nonsense because Survival was pretty poor on the tuning side for most of the expansion. It soared for a couple months in Highmaul but that was it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yhcti View Post
    Fingers crossed Survival becomes viable with MM/BM!
    Survival is viable right now on live. That's not the problem with the spec.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    This is also nonsense because Survival was pretty poor on the tuning side for most of the expansion. It soared for a couple months in Highmaul but that was it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Survival is viable right now on live. That's not the problem with the spec.
    I guess optimal is the word I was looking for, not viable. Every spec is viable I suppose.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    This is also nonsense because Survival was pretty poor on the tuning side for most of the expansion. It soared for a couple months in Highmaul but that was it.
    You said several post later that you didn't read my post ... Yeah I meant Surv WoD was boring and pruned as hell + easy AF, even easier than BM Legion. They so miscalculated their pruning that they had to remove the new WoD part that made their SS disappear ... talk about a rollback (since that you are so happy and proud that SV BfA is "reverted")

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