Changes to *leveling speed* in 7.3.5 - good or bad? (Final word)

[Grenzstein]

I love the changes. Levelled a new 110 Nightborne with it, got to 110 with 3 days played. Felt fast enough.

[Deleted]

I disagree.

Scaling made some things better, but it was implemented in a half-assed way and so it made some things worse as well. Two examples of the latter:

1. Items of same ilvl frequently vary in stats wildly. Item of a lower ilvl can be much more powerful than item of a bigger ilvl. This was somewhat the case before, but scaling everywhere exacerbates the problem hugely.

2. When you level up, you get weaker, not stronger. This is completely idiotic.

There are numerous other issues, some incredibly stupid, and some of them they have already fixed (unsoloable raid bosses is a good example). Overall, it is a very raw feature that went live with very little testing and had very little thought behind it in general.

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What's wrong? What should I have done differently? Genuinely curious.

Are you contesting that leveling got slower? What is it?

Welcome to WoW. It has always been the case of getting "weaker" as you level (maybe more noticeable now since scaling). For every level you gain, the items you wear (secondary stats in particular) will provide less power, not counting heirlooms. You figured this out just now? After 13 years?

So how does this work, as a whole the overall update is good, but you take the leveling speed in particular to complain about, cry to keep it only about the speed and then you bring up some unsoloable raid boss bug? What the fuck does that have to do with leveling speed? Or is it a discussion based on whatever you deem negative that suits you?

Leveling got slower with a few hours, boohoo. It got more interesting too, dungeon bosses actually have a chance to do some abilities.

Be my guest to keep crying and whining on the forums and by all means afk in Dalaran in corner while we get the heritage armor.

[rda]

Welcome to WoW. It has always been the case of getting "weaker" as you level (maybe more noticeable now since scaling). For every level you gain, the items you wear (secondary stats in particular) will provide less power, not counting heirlooms. You figured this out just now? After 13 years?

Before scaling, mobs you just fought stayed the same level they were before and even though you were getting less of a buck out of your secondaries, you were still getting increases from your primaries + HP and the mobs were starting to miss, so compared to the exact same mobs you were getting stronger, not weaker.

You are confusing this with getting weaker compared to mobs of your own level. This now happens with all mobs and this exacerbates the stupidity. Thanks to scaling.

[Deleted]

Before scaling, mobs you just fought stayed the same level they were before and even though you were getting less of a buck out of your secondaries, you were still getting increases from your primaries + HP and the mobs were starting to miss, so compared to the exact same mobs you were getting stronger, not weaker.

You are confusing this with getting weaker compared to mobs of your own level. This now happens with all mobs and this exacerbates the stupidity. Thanks to scaling.

That was the entire point of scaling. To not run into having to move to a new zone (where you would encounter mobs of your level) after only a bunch of quests because the quests and mobs in that area were becoming trivial. Did you liked that for some reason?

[rda]

That was the entire point of scaling. To not run into having to move to a new zone (where you would encounter mobs of your level) after only a bunch of quests because the quests and mobs in that area were becoming trivial. Did you liked that for some reason?

That was not the point of scaling, that was a side effect and that side effect is weird and undesirable.

The point of scaling was allowing you to choose zones and curbing situations where you outlevel things and they turn green / grey and you have to move somewhere else or you are going to lose on XP.

The point of scaling was achieved, but we also got a big number of stupid side effects. This happens all the time with software. You fix it by working to remove or minimize side effects which harm the feature. In this case, they did nearly nothing and as a result we had tons of things that went wrong, some they fixed since, others they haven't fixed.

[Manabomb]

It's just plain dull, created exclusively to resell Allied races as a systematic feature.

It wouldn't be so blatantly obvious they are making these changes for people with dopamine addictions if they didn't basically cite psychological buzzwords in their description for why they think their new system is "good".

Face it, the new leveling system is mathematically created to suit dopamine addicts: nothing more. Nothing less. It's an abomination of character progression that offers no legitimate reward or meaningful character power progression until you hit artifact and with that gone in BfA? A nightmare of class design.

[Deleted]

Zone lvl scaling, mobs increased hp/armor: Awesome

Less XP gain: Not so awesome

[Trickname]

I like it as a step in the right direction.

I think it needs some tweaks though. I.e bring back elite quests with large xp rewards which require you to group up.

[Thrif]

I like it, but I'm biased since I've already got all classes at max level and don't mind changing/transferring for money so I'll never have to level something for the sake of playing it.

So, for me it's only affecting the allied races, and for them I enjoy it. It's a lot funnier to level when things doesn't autodie and you can actually occasionally die in dungeons. I've even had to use CC a few times, and I fcking love CCing stuff. And even though they'll still be extremely common, it means the heirlooms will be slightly rarer, and people have to put in a decent amount of hours in order to get them.

So yeah, I'm all for it, but again I'm heavily biased. If I was someone who wanted to level something in order to try out all the class campaigns or get more mage tower artifact skins or something, I'd probably loathe it with a fiery passion.

[Deleted]

That was not the point of scaling, that was a side effect and that side effect is weird and undesirable.

The point of scaling was allowing you to choose zones and curbing situations where you outlevel things and they turn green / grey and you have to move somewhere else or you are going to lose on XP.

The point of scaling was achieved, but we also got a big number of stupid side effects. This happens all the time with software. You fix it by working to remove or minimize side effects which harm the feature. In this case, they did nearly nothing and as a result we had tons of things that went wrong, some they fixed since, others they haven't fixed.

So from your point of view, the mobs should remain with their same level as you level up but grant the same xp as mobs of your level? Or scale to your level but maintain their original hp? I don't really get how you would want it to function.

[rda]

So from your point of view, the mobs should remain with their same level but grant the same xp? Or scale to your level but maintain their original hp? I don't really get how you would want it to function.

You are asking how to still have scaling but avoid making the player weaker compared to the same mobs? There are many possible solutions. One of them: straighten the scaling coefficients for secondaries to make the curve go slightly upward instead of downward. They squished all of that multiple times already, it is logical to remove the downward factor that was there to avoid the super-scaling, the super-scaling has been taken care of by the squishes. There are other solutions as well.

[beanman12345]

Takes much longer than I'd like.

[Deleted]

You are asking how to still have scaling but avoid making the player weaker compared to the same mobs? There are many possible solutions. One of them: straighten the scaling coefficients for secondaries to make the curve go slightly upward instead of downward. They squished all of that multiple times already, it is logical to remove the downward factor that was there to avoid the super-scaling, the super-scaling has been taken care of by the squishes. There are other solutions as well.

If you make the stat scaling to go upward you'd end up overpowering mobs of your level. It makes no sense for a low item to provide more power to you as you increase in level.
The stat scaling going downward is there so you have to upgrade your items constantly while leveling. For example, with all the heirlooms available equipped I don't feel any decrease in power from level to level. The only difference I see is on the damage meter.

[rda]

If you make the stat scaling to go upward you'd end up overpowering mobs of your level. It makes no sense for a low item to provide more power to you as you increase in level.
The stat scaling going downward is there so you have to upgrade your items constantly while leveling. For example, with all the heirlooms available equipped I don't feel any decrease in power from level to level. The only difference I see is on the damage meter.

The stat scaling going downward was there to try and curb the power curve. That has been now done by the numerous squishes. There is no longer any need to have stats scale downward. If you don't want them to go upward, just leave them flat. There are arguments either way, but any decision is better than keeping the relic of going downward that was trying to awkwardly solve the problem that has now been solved differently.

Anyway, I hope I managed to illustrate that (a) there is a stupidity and that (b) it doesn't have to be there.

There are other stupidities. They did a shoddy job.

[Yag]

If this was somewhere between my first or my fifth alt, I wouldnt mind that much.
If this was only the upgrade to the mobs and level zones, I would love it.
But after the 12th, just for some armor, and more races coming this way to level up? I simply dont like it. At all.

[xpose]

Still faster than vanilla leveling 1-60 so I can't really complain. I enjoy being able to pick the different zones and have my alts not run the same leveling paths over and over.


Ways to improve it would be to introduce area quests similar to what was in WoD that granted bonus EXP if completed. If some of the legacy zones had this it would help.

[kaid]

I started playing my void elf last monday and playing a couple hours a night on the week days and some longer play sessions on the weekend I dinged 70 last night. Sure it is not the gain 10 levels in an hour dungeon sprint run stupidity that used to exist but the overall pacing seems pretty solid. There are some mobs that are overtuned and some scaling oddities on equipment but overall the change seems a healthy one especially for new players to the game.

[Piesor]

Leveling is quite slow but the overall experience until lvl60 is far better. Now I am lvl60 and don't want to leave to BC / Wotlk content

When Heritage armor was introduced I immediately set the goal to get them all. Already stumbling with the first char though. The longer I level the more I realize how much of my free time I burn for some cosmetics. Feels bad.
When you see a player in heritage armor it should mean that he / she achieved something special. Right now I just think: "Oh, another guy without a job and a real life shows his heritage armor"!

There is no other reason for me to level another char instead of heritage armor. I almost got all classes on maxlevel for both factions. If I want to play an allied race I just make a race change or use my free boost.

Changes that I'd like to see:
1. More XP per quest / mobkill or heirloom boost.
2. Scaling the complete world except the current xpac zones from 1-100, that means also beeing able to stay within "Vanilla" content above lvl60.

[Soon-TM]

I like the 7.3.5 changes, but there is a bunch of (admittedly small) things off. Mobs have more health, but they do the same crappy damage as they did before. That includes spellcaster mobs, who at level 50 or so shadowbolt you for like... 100 damage. I guess that's a consequence of the massive prune, that removed a lot of CC (both soft and hard) from all classes' toolkit, so if mobs were actually dangerous, any non-tank, non-frost mage might have a hard time, and the QQ would be glorious

[Lime]

Being able to target more areas is good.

Questing is more boring.
Low level gameplay is still a mess.
Just takes longer.

My 2 cents.