Demo Changes!

[Gaidax]

I don't want to crush anyones dreams but NP demons don't really do enough damage to justify a 3 minute CD. :/ Don't get me wrong, it's VERY fun to play around with! It really gives you that "demonic general"-feel that demo sorta needs and it looks awesome to have 30 demons running around but the 3 minute cooldown is a real bummer. Demo is fun even without it though. You really feel every bit of haste you can get your hands on in beta. Both demo and destro are a LOT of fun.

I think that Nether Portal is simply ridiculously restrictive. I tossed couple of remarks about that in official forums - my take is that Blizzard threw just about every restriction they could at it - high cost, long CD, long cast time AND ramping up effect that requires you to actively cast cast cast and god forbid you need to move there AND the effect is a bunch of guardians with all the inconveniences of it.

IMO, there is no reason for it to not be either free OR instant cast and then having its payload spawn passively at some rate like 1 demon every 2 seconds.

Of course they could buff it through the roof, but IMO at least they need to ease up some of the restrictions too, it's just way too prohibitive. The idea itself is sound, but seriously if one would ask me what kind of other penalty should be put on this thing, I'd shrug because they already pretty much put every last thing they had there on it.

[Deleted]

I agree with you entirely, NP in its current iteration doesn't have a profit for its cost. It's immensely expensive to even play with it and quite limiting seeing as the spawned demons hit about as hard as imps do. 3 minutes AND a cast time AND the fact that you have to spam out shards (i.e. requiring a set-up with preferrably 4 core proccs) makes it a ridiculous talent. It feels like an oldschool glyph almost, no real pay-off but it looks really cool atleast.

[Bearded Sith]

What are you even on about?

Oh, some fool talking about guilds not letting people spec the way they want....it's up there somewhere...

[Duckz0rs]

This specifically is what I'm disagreeing with with my previous posts, they really aren't. I wish they were. Could be a region thing?

Never thought about it, but it might actually be a region thing. I'm on EU as well and chill/tryhard guilds seem to be at least 50/50 here. Then again I have always actively searched for more laid back guilds like Gaidax, but they've never seemed hard to find even on low-pop servers. But even when I was still pushing progress hard I always forced my members to play what they -like-. People consistently seemed to perform better when they did that than when they played a cookie-cutter spec they detested. If they liked the cookie-cutter build, well, more power to them.

I haven't really pushed progress hard since vanilla/the start of BC though. Right now I'm in the situation where we have a lot of people competent enough for mythic but only managed a few kills because we have trouble with getting a steady roster (the price to pay for being a "retired raiders" guild on a low pop server). Which is fine by me.

[Deleted]

0 changes in >1 month

What a pity, they had the opportunity and they lost it. Too many dead talents.

Are you joking? Welcome to 90% of the other specs in the game.

[Baconeggcheese]

Never thought about it, but it might actually be a region thing. I'm on EU as well and chill/tryhard guilds seem to be at least 50/50 here. Then again I have always actively searched for more laid back guilds like Gaidax, but they've never seemed hard to find even on low-pop servers. But even when I was still pushing progress hard I always forced my members to play what they -like-. People consistently seemed to perform better when they did that than when they played a cookie-cutter spec they detested. If they liked the cookie-cutter build, well, more power to them.

I haven't really pushed progress hard since vanilla/the start of BC though. Right now I'm in the situation where we have a lot of people competent enough for mythic but only managed a few kills because we have trouble with getting a steady roster (the price to pay for being a "retired raiders" guild on a low pop server). Which is fine by me.

The way the US treats gaming and MMO's specifically is a very different beast to the EU. The difference in culture is pretty stark as well, and it shows in performance across the board.

There's a reason for the memes during competitions.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I think that Nether Portal is simply ridiculously restrictive. I tossed couple of remarks about that in official forums - my take is that Blizzard threw just about every restriction they could at it - high cost, long CD, long cast time AND ramping up effect that requires you to actively cast cast cast and god forbid you need to move there AND the effect is a bunch of guardians with all the inconveniences of it.

IMO, there is no reason for it to not be either free OR instant cast and then having its payload spawn passively at some rate like 1 demon every 2 seconds.

Of course they could buff it through the roof, but IMO at least they need to ease up some of the restrictions too, it's just way too prohibitive. The idea itself is sound, but seriously if one would ask me what kind of other penalty should be put on this thing, I'd shrug because they already pretty much put every last thing they had there on it.

I think a change I'd like to see is instead of the gradual summoning, have us charge up the portal, and then having it splurge out a load of demons based on shards spent in the charging period. It makes the interaction with Commander a little neater, and also gives you that feeling of just unloading the gates of hell upon them. Our spells mostly feel like that, with bilescourge firing squadrons of them into the ground, dreadstalkers leaping at the target, HoG dropping out of the sky, and then Nether Portal is just this slow drip feed. I like the ramped up army, but something a little more...explosive would be nice. We're warlocks after all.

[Lucrece]

The way the US treats gaming and MMO's specifically is a very different beast to the EU. The difference in culture is pretty stark as well, and it shows in performance across the board.

There's a reason for the memes during competitions.

Not to mention the differences in labor practices that obviously allow EU competitive edge. The work weeks are not even close to the same, nor are the allowances for vacation days.

[slickwilly]

Not to mention the differences in labor practices that obviously allow EU competitive edge. The work weeks are not even close to the same, nor are the allowances for vacation days.

Yeap lazy countries living on the government tit definitely have an edge. Gotta be good at something.

[Baconeggcheese]

Yeap lazy countries living on the government tit definitely have an edge. Gotta be good at something.

Hi Ron

10cha

[Lucrece]

Yeap lazy countries living on the government tit definitely have an edge. Gotta be good at something.

Or you mean civilized nations with some modicum of work life balance instead of institutionalized sweatshops ;p.

[Baconeggcheese]

Lets not do this in the lock section yeah?

[Deleted]

The main problem I have with Legion/Bfa warlock is the inability to store resources like we could in MoP/WoD. We can store 2 CB, though it's more of a rotational spell now. Especially Demo with the old Demonfury we could store a long time of Meta, or 4 DB's. We also had 2 charges of Demon Soul to spend at the pull and whenever we needed after that.

It feels more like we are a rogue useing energy and combopoints instead of being a caster. No planning possible anymore everything is rotational.

[Keltas]

The main problem I have with Legion/Bfa warlock is the inability to store resources like we could in MoP/WoD. We can store 2 CB, though it's more of a rotational spell now. Especially Demo with the old Demonfury we could store a long time of Meta, or 4 DB's. We also had 2 charges of Demon Soul to spend at the pull and whenever we needed after that.

It feels more like we are a rogue useing energy and combopoints instead of being a caster. No planning possible anymore everything is rotational.

They've been moving everyone that direction, so as sad as it is to lose that storing gameplay, they don't want anyone to have it.

It's somewhat understandable as well. If you can hold 5+ of your strongest ability you can just wait on procs to align or bosses to do something that needs burst.



I think Demo is actually still the best spec on beta for storing burst damage. You can hold a lot of demonbolt procs on top of hoarding 5 shards. Nobody else can really do that. Boomkins are probably closest because their empowerments stack, but they can only hold a couple empowerments and 2 surges as well.

[Deleted]

They've been moving everyone that direction, so as sad as it is to lose that storing gameplay, they don't want anyone to have it.

It's somewhat understandable as well. If you can hold 5+ of your strongest ability you can just wait on procs to align or bosses to do something that needs burst.



I think Demo is actually still the best spec on beta for storing burst damage. You can hold a lot of demonbolt procs on top of hoarding 5 shards. Nobody else can really do that. Boomkins are probably closest because their empowerments stack, but they can only hold a couple empowerments and 2 surges as well.

I call that skillful gameplay, when I, the player have agency to decide when I'm going to use resources/CD's etc. If everything is set into stone I might as well get me a programmable keyboard/mouse and automate the rotation. Like how Rift operates (lots of spells/abilities with CD's that you macro into different buttons).

Well the shards are rotational as is the 5th DC to avoid capping, but yes if you have 4 DC + 5 shards you sure can unleash the demons.

[garonne]

I call that skillful gameplay, when I, the player have agency to decide when I'm going to use resources/CD's etc. If everything is set into stone I might as well get me a programmable keyboard/mouse and automate the rotation. Like how Rift operates (lots of spells/abilities with CD's that you macro into different buttons).

Well the shards are rotational as is the 5th DC to avoid capping, but yes if you have 4 DC + 5 shards you sure can unleash the demons.

wow rotation's aren't very complicated to begin with, even in the past with metamorphosis and fury, you could program when to unleash once you're above a threshold. the playstyle you like is missing and that sucks for you, but dont make it seem like it was some grandiose design. arguments can be made without the reach.

[Deleted]

wow rotation's aren't very complicated to begin with, even in the past with metamorphosis and fury, you could program when to unleash once you're above a threshold. the playstyle you like is missing and that sucks for you, but dont make it seem like it was some grandiose design. arguments can be made without the reach.

I have to disagree with your statement here. Yes you could program it to unleash above a threshold and get the current playstyle and 0 choice. But the old design allowed for room to make encounter/situational choices that you now can't make, losing depth/skill from a spec and gameplay.

It's the same with current trinket design that mostly is just a damage RPPM proc trinket with 0 interaction. Unlike previous expansions before legion which had allot more buff trinkets.

[Inshabel]

Yeap lazy countries living on the government tit definitely have an edge. Gotta be good at something.

Not sure how it's my government's tit, the only way they are involved is forcing my employer by law to provide me with vacation time, and somehow even with all this vacation time, paid sick leave and 40 hour work weeks, they still manage to turn a profit so it sounds like you should just be more efficient instead of turning your work environment into a gulag.

[Smog]

Alot of talk about talents and rotation, strengths and weaknesses, but I don't see too much discussion around M+. How do people feel the spec is doing in there compared to Destro?

Not sure how it's my government's tit, the only way they are involved is forcing my employer by law to provide me with vacation time, and somehow even with all this vacation time, paid sick leave and 40 hour work weeks, they still manage to turn a profit so it sounds like you should just be more efficient instead of turning your work environment into a gulag.

Stop. This isn't the place to debate socialism vs. capitalism. Yes, he started it, but drop it.

[Deleted]

New build soon. Fingers crossed they'll change Nether Portal, update more spell animations and update green fire!

And no I don't believe for a second they'll do the last thing.