Sylvanas: "We must secure a future for our Horde children."

[Syegfryed]

it flat out tells you why they wanted to reduce tension you making up crap is pointless when it flat out tells us whats going on.

and again it doesn't if the twilight hammer are who really started the war, EVERY ONE even the horde thought the horde started the war.

And again, why do you think there was tension? why there was a group of sentinels in ashenvale dead? (let just remove the options of this was also a thing from the twilight hammer) you think the horde, in "peace" and with safe access to there, would attack the elves for no reason?

Obviosuly no, Varian declared war at undercity and with the events of wrathgate, the elves broke the treat with thrall and negated the orcs access to ashenvale, of course would be tension, of course the sentinels and the warsong would be trading kills

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And again, why do you think there was tension? why there was a group of sentinels in ashenvale dead? (let just remove the options of this was also a thing from the twilight hammer) you think the horde, in "peace" and with safe access to there, would attack the elves for no reason?

Obviosuly no, Varian declared war at undercity and with the events of wrathgate, the elves broke the treat with thrall and negated the orcs access to ashenvale, of course would be tension, of course the sentinels and the warsong would be trading kills

the twilight hammer were the ones who killed and skinned the night elf's it wasn't even the bloody warsong. the twilight hammer made it seem like the horde did it which caused the tension there was no bloody tension when the night elfs were sitting in there dumb forest doing nothing it was caused when they started getting murdered and skinned, it flat out bloody says that why are you being dense.

the twilight hammers were the ones who started the war but they made it look like it was the horde doing it, EVERY ONE LITERALLY EVERY ONE thought the horde started the war carine tried to bloody usurp garrosh because he thought garrosh started the war. there is literally zero case for the night elf's to have started the war when even the bloody horde leaders think the horde started the war.

[Syegfryed]

the twilight hammer were the ones who killed and skinned the night elf's it wasn't even the bloody warsong. the twilight hammer made it seem like the horde did it which caused the tension there was no bloody tension when the night elfs were sitting in there dumb forest doing nothing it was caused when they started getting murdered and skinned, it flat out bloody says that why are you being dense.

the twilight hammers were the ones who started the war but they made it look like it was the horde doing it, EVERY ONE LITERALLY EVERY ONE thought the horde started the war carine tried to bloody usurp garrosh because he thought garrosh started the war. there is literally zero case for the night elf's to have started the war when even the bloody horde leaders think the horde started the war.

what is your point exactly? try to say the horde start the war when you know they din't(it was the twilight hammer) but just because everyone think they did... they did?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

what is your point exactly? try to say the horde start the war when you know they din't(it was the twilight hammer) but just because everyone think they did... they did?

There are two main points.

1: the night elfs in no way shape or form started the war.

2: the fact that we know the twilight hammer started the war is irrelevant, every one in Warcraft thinks the horde started the war. The horde thinks they started it the alliance thinks they started it every one inbetween thinks they started it. The only people who know the horde didn’t start the war are the twilight hammer and garrosh him self who then goes ahead and really starts the war by invading ashenvale. For all intensive purposes the horde started the war and not even for a good reason, I wish garrosh had started the war because he didn’t want to bother with geting resources from some where else but the truth is there were other options and they had no reason not to use them if garrosh didn’t want to go to war but he did.

[Syegfryed]

There are two main points.

1: the night elfs in no way shape or form started the war.

Still is their fault what happened next when they broke the peAce treated with thrall

2: the fact that we know the twilight hammer started the war is irrelevant, every one in Warcraft thinks the horde started the war. The horde thinks they started it the alliance thinks they started it every one inbetween thinks they started it. The only people who know the horde didn’t start the war are the twilight hammer and garrosh him self who then goes ahead and really starts the war by invading ashenvale. For all intensive purposes the horde started the war and not even for a good reason, I wish garrosh had started the war because he didn’t want to bother with geting resources from some where else but the truth is there were other options and they had no reason not to use them if garrosh didn’t want to go to war but he did.

so, in the end, the horde didn't start the war, end point.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

IDK, the idea that Sylvanas morality has anything to do with the chances of of success is silly.

Empires have been built on atrocities, America itself stands on genocide after genocide and mass murder and more mass murder. It has nothing to do with the morality of such actions, but how you frame it, and what they accomplish.

That Sylvanas is "evil* is irrelevant, if she is an idiot -like Garrosh- is the issue. Sylvanas true goal -what makes her so evil to some- is the lengths she'll go for her self preservation, yet those who demonize her and want her dead, fail to see that the best way to accomplish her goal, is to make the horde strong and lasting.

We are not talking about a redemption story for her even, the thing is even as evil as some people paint her, her goals align with the horde's survival, for what is best for the horde.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Still is their fault what happened next when they broke the peAce treated with thrall


so, in the end, the horde didn't start the war, end point.

The twilight hammer instigated a war garrosh doubled down and went to war because he wanted a war. There is no way you could spin it to be the night elfs fault when there were options garrosh could have used to not go to war.

[Phuongvi]

Wew Blizz. Literal genocide and land-grabbing for living space.

Who is writing this expansion's storyline because that is some edgy, edgy plot..

The same guy who wrote Mist of Pandaria story but he changed Garrosh for Sylvannas, Theramore for Teldrasil etc

[Broken Fox]

IDK, the idea that Sylvanas morality has anything to do with the chances of of success is silly.

Empires have been built on atrocities, America itself stands on genocide after genocide and mass murder and more mass murder. It has nothing to do with the morality of such actions, but how you frame it, and what they accomplish.

That Sylvanas is "evil* is irrelevant, if she is an idiot -like Garrosh- is the issue. Sylvanas true goal -what makes her so evil to some- is the lengths she'll go for her self preservation, yet those who demonize her and want her dead, fail to see that the best way to accomplish her goal, is to make the horde strong and lasting.

We are not talking about a redemption story for her even, the thing is even as evil as some people paint her, her goals align with the horde's survival, for what is best for the horde.

That’s a good point. A moral leader doesn’t always make a good one. Whether Sylvanas’ motivations are selfish or not as long as the Horde benefits it doesn’t matter. As long as she doesn’t go full tyrant psycho/future raid boss mode, it’s all good. (Which I don’t think she will. Sylvanas is one of Blizzard’s untouchable babies along with Thrall and Jaina)

[Deleted]

KALIMDOR FOR THE ELVES, KHAZ MODAN FOR THE DWARVES, LORDAERON FOR EVERYBODY!

Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the living pour into EVERY undead country and ONLY into undead countries.

The Undercity and Brill are just as crowded as Ironforge or Darnassus, but nobody says Ironforge or Darnassus will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of humans and quote assimilating unquote with them.

Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY undead country and ONLY undead countries to be “laid down to rest,” i.e., exterminated, by all those living people.

What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of undead were brought into EVERY living country and ONLY into living countries?

How long would it take anyone to realize I’m not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the Final solution to the LIVING problem?

And how long would it take any sane living man to notice this and what kind of psycho living man wouldn’t object to this?

But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the undead race, the Argent Dawn and respectable Forsaken agree that I am a lichkingwhowantstokillsixmillionlivingpeople.

They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-undead.
Anti-racist is a code word for anti-undead.

No ,give it all back to Trolls

[Deleted]

and it would be 100x times better and more plausible with him

- - - Updated - - -

Nice drawing you made, and some nice bias on top of it.

You forgot to add Garrosh : Failure, died.

[Syegfryed]

Nice drawing you made, and some nice bias on top of it.

You forgot to add Garrosh : Failure, died.

i didn't draw it, and about fail and die sylvanas is ahead on Garrosh about 3 to 1

[Dravec]

Sylvanas is such a shitty forced character with no reason to exist since the end of Wrath.

Can they kill her off and give us back Vol'jin please?

[Aliven]

Sylvanas text changed to

"What is certain is that Teldrassil and its Night Elves pose a clear threat to the peace and safety of the Horde on Kalimdor.

Darnassus will serve as a safe harbor for smuggling azerite to the Eastern Kingdoms. We simply cannot allow this to occur.

To win this war, we must control the azerite. To control the azerite, we must eliminate the Kal'dorei threat.

We do not have time to waste."