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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Some time between then and Antorus, Sargeras captured the spirits of all the Titans except Eonar, despite that all of their spirits were supposed to be on Azeroth with the Keepers. (That is what Chronicle states the spell was supposed to do, send the spirits hurtling towards Azeroth to merge with the Keepers.)

    So either that spell didn't happen, or their spirits didn't get sent hurtling towards Azeroth, seeing as Sargeras then captures them and tortures them despite never having a major force succeed in invading Azeroth until the Broken Shore, nevermind the Keeper's sanctums. Thus, retconned.
    Blizzard (Muffinus specifically) already explained this. There wasn't any retcon. Sargeras and the Legion got the spirits from the Keepers (and possibly Wrathion as well) during their Ulduar invasions (Warrior campaign, I don't remember if it was exclusively to Warrior Campaign or available to every classes) and all those invasions over the world in Legion (I assume by that he meant they were hunting down Wrathion during those, and finally somehow managed to extract Aman'thul's spirit from him one way or another).
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Q: My only point is: last remnants were inside the Keepers. Now, the souls are on Argus. That is a contradiction. They need to explain how.
    Muffinus (M): You know how there were demons in Ulduar during Legion pre-launch week 2?

    Q: Yup it's a theory that the Legion targeted Ulduar for this! What about Aman'thul's soul fragment? It was inside Lei Shen & now Wrathion.
    M: Did you do invasions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Given that the target of the spell was the Keepers, that would still be a retcon. Why would the spell continue after it has failed?

    It also says the spirits 'faded' after the spell had failed, which would suggest their spirits were gone, not that they simply kept going. Not only were their spirits not gone, but they were completely healthy and well enough to reform later.
    No, it never said the spirits faded. I (and probably many others) already elaborated upon this when Chronicle was just released and people were going all "So the Titans are dead?". What was said in Chronicle was "But just as quickly as the influx of power had come, it dimmed. The Keepers, still retaining their original personalities, puzzled over the strange phenomenon. They knew they had been gifted with a portion of the Pantheon's power, but they were unaware that the last remnants of their beloved makers had been infused in their very bodies". It never said that the influx of power / the spirit of the Pantheon faded, it only dimmed. Those "last remnants" were infused in the Keepers' very bodies. Given that Wrathion, upon ingesting Lei Shen's heart (which contained Amanthul's piece), got a brief moment of being possessed by Aman'thul, it's very fair to assume that their spirits never disappeared, just went into some sorts of dormant state.
    Last edited by Qualia; 2018-02-15 at 07:33 PM.
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  2. #42
    Herald of the Titans Sykol's Avatar
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  3. #43
    My assumption/head cannon on the souls thing for Antorus was that they failed to hold it and the souls returned to the keepers allowing ole Sarg to snap them up. Then again that is just a thought. Doesn't explain the Aman'thul part (maybe that is why it failed Sarg stopped it during the channel or whatever and the keepers only got Bits).

    As for Chronicle and the old gods, I always assumed Chronicle was going to be bible, but I thought of it as loose and told mostly from the Titan Perspective. There could have been lesser or smaller old gods as well that just went unmentioned ie G'huun etc. An old god that wasn't part of the Black Empire or was a general or something. Maybe he landed in the water and was there instead of on the Pangaea Azeroth. Either way with Metzen gone the first Chronicle book is probably going to loose a lot of its bible like quality. It was kind of Metzen's baby.

    Edit:

    Well i saw the muffins post, I guess that is what they are going with. They stole them a few months/weeks before Antorus. Curious how they got the one from Wrathion.
    Last edited by Zoldor; 2018-02-15 at 07:34 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Qualia View Post
    Blizzard (Muffinus specifically) already explained this. There wasn't any retcon. Sargeras and the Legion got the spirits from the Keepers (and possibly Wrathion as well) during their Ulduar invasions (Warrior campaign, I don't remember if it was exclusively to Warrior Campaign or available to every classes) and all those invasions over the world in Legion.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Q: My only point is: last remnants were inside the Keepers. Now, the souls are on Argus. That is a contradiction. They need to explain how.
    Muffinus (M): You know how there were demons in Ulduar during Legion pre-launch week 2?

    Q: Yup it's a theory that the Legion targeted Ulduar for this! What about Aman'thul's soul fragment? It was inside Lei Shen & now Wrathion.
    M: Did you do invasions?
    No, it never said the spirits faded. I (and probably many others) already elaborated upon this when Chronicle was just released and people were going all "So the Titans are dead?". What was said in Chronicle was "But just as quickly as the influx of power had come, it dimmed. The Keepers, still retaining their original personalities, puzzled over the strange phenomenon. They knew they had been gifted with a portion of the Pantheon's power, but they were unaware that the last remnants of their beloved makers had been infused in their very bodies". It never said that the influx of power / the spirit of the Pantheon faded, it only dimmed. Those "last remnants" were infused in the Keepers' very bodies. Given that Wrathion, upon ingesting Lei Shen's heart (which contained Amanthul's piece), got a brief moment of being possessed by Aman'thul, it's very fair to assume that their spirits never disappeared, just went into some sorts of dormant state.
    This makes more sense, I was unaware of any of these explanations.

    That said, it is still a retcon that G'huun is an Old God, if we're to assume Chronicle is telling us there's only the 4 and that Chronicle tells us even things we are not supposed to be aware of at the time.
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  5. #45
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    What was the wording when it came to the Old Gods coming to Azeroth?
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    @Qualia

    What was the wording when it came to the Old Gods coming to Azeroth?
    It actually never specified how many Old Gods came to Azeroth, it just said "The elemental lords reveled amid the primordial bedlam until a group of Old Gods plummered down from the Great Dark. They slammed into Azeroth's surface, embedding themselves in different locations across the world <...>". Chronicle never told us that there were only 4 Old Gods on Azeroth per se, just that it named four of them. Other than Y'Shaarj, we didn't even get the name of the other Old Gods (Y'Shaarj, C'Thun and N'Zoth) until the Titans and their Titanforged army came. So, all in all, even if G'Huun was one of the Old Gods that came to Azeroth at the beginning, it technically still wouldn't be a retcon as Chronicle never stated anywhere that there were only four Old Gods.
    Last edited by Qualia; 2018-02-15 at 08:20 PM.
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    Donnons le sang de guillotine
    Pour guerir la secheresse de la guillotine
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  7. #47
    Fluffy Kitten Ragnarocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qualia View Post
    Blizzard (Muffinus specifically) already explained this. There wasn't any retcon. Sargeras and the Legion got the spirits from the Keepers (and possibly Wrathion as well) during their Ulduar invasions (Warrior campaign, I don't remember if it was exclusively to Warrior Campaign or available to every classes) and all those invasions over the world in Legion (I assume by that he meant they were hunting down Wrathion during those, and finally somehow managed to extract Aman'thul's spirit from him one way or another).
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Q: My only point is: last remnants were inside the Keepers. Now, the souls are on Argus. That is a contradiction. They need to explain how.
    Muffinus (M): You know how there were demons in Ulduar during Legion pre-launch week 2?

    Q: Yup it's a theory that the Legion targeted Ulduar for this! What about Aman'thul's soul fragment? It was inside Lei Shen & now Wrathion.
    M: Did you do invasions?
    No, it never said the spirits faded. I (and probably many others) already elaborated upon this when Chronicle was just released and people were going all "So the Titans are dead?". What was said in Chronicle was "But just as quickly as the influx of power had come, it dimmed. The Keepers, still retaining their original personalities, puzzled over the strange phenomenon. They knew they had been gifted with a portion of the Pantheon's power, but they were unaware that the last remnants of their beloved makers had been infused in their very bodies". It never said that the influx of power / the spirit of the Pantheon faded, it only dimmed. Those "last remnants" were infused in the Keepers' very bodies. Given that Wrathion, upon ingesting Lei Shen's heart (which contained Amanthul's piece), got a brief moment of being possessed by Aman'thul, it's very fair to assume that their spirits never disappeared, just went into some sorts of dormant state.
    Oh dang...I didn't know that. Well that explains why Sargeras is torturing the Titans now. I kind of assumed they'd been tortured for aeons and just NOW of all times they were finally getting close to being corrupted or whatever. That makes that timeframe a bit easier to understand.

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