Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

View Poll Results: Which option do you WANT? (Choose both or nothing, if you don't care)

Voters
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  • Dreanor Orcs

    113 55.67%
  • Outland Orcs

    97 47.78%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Biotec View Post
    It's not like the Mag'har have to be bland though. There's a ton of story potential for them. We've already seen that they contain Warsong, Blackrock, Frostwolf and Bleeding Hollow orcs united under one banner. They could make a story about them gathering the leftovers from Outland, moving onto a new home on Azeroth and rediscovering or reestablishing their heritage. Maybe they don't like how homogenous the orcs have become under Thrall and want to represent their old factions with renewed pride but a true sense of unity. The only reason they were bland and boring is because BC writing was a dumpster fire.

    Meanwhile you have AU Orcs with their asspull goblin technology and all your favorite warchiefs who died actually doing something in the actual world, but now you can have them all back because fuck the lore Grom is cool right? The AU was an awful idea, and while they did portray a lot of the clans in a really cool manner, there's no reason they can't just do that for the Mag'har as well. For every one thing the AU did well with the Orc clans, it also did something really fucking stupid, like everything with Ner'zhul. I'd rather build on the lore that actually matters instead of some random pocket dimension where nothing but Gul'dan existing really mattered.
    It's not like I am championing AU Orcs much, either. Though honestly it'll probably be easier for them to write something (and for them to salvage that horrid ending WoD had, it'll be maximum cringe at the best scenario). Plus, some reason, people genuinely feel like AU Grom is still a relevant badass.

    It's pretty much asspull either way. "YEARS of Mag'har on the side of of the Horde? Better somehow recruit them again! Oh! And suddenly we know of the other clans now existing in Outland! Shove them in our banner champion!" Almost like pretending the asspull from AU wasn't a thing to justify and equally big asspull.

    Only reason I mention anything "new" Orc with Fel Orcs is because Legion is now gone, this should open up the idea that what remains of the Fel Orcs are either rampaging and aimless, and some may be coming off the blood high. Hell, you can be on a kidnapping mission and running Apothecary tests on them til one comes to. Or go the whole Void Elf way and make some leader of the sobering Fel Orcs, and assist Nazgrel with tracking them down. He hasn't done garbage since TBC, and just standing around in Thrallmar for 10 years is probably heinous on his knees. They could even make Hellfire Peninsula a warfront to make it that much more urgent between the two factions, make Outland feel desirable again.

  2. #82
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    Outland orcs, main universe, don't mess up timelines.

    We certainly don't need any Draenor named characters to appear on Azeroth, not even Durotan.

    Gul'dan should be the only and last cross-over Orc.

    Retcon Outland all you want, but don't mix universes.

    Also that recent wolf mount clearly says Mag'har Direwolf.
    Last edited by Teri; 2018-02-18 at 05:22 PM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Can we just stop with this absolute garbage nonsense that "there's more customization for Draenor Orcs!!!" It's wrong, and it's stupid. It shows, at best, a superficial understanding of the situation.

    Is there more apparent differentiation between Draenor Orcs than there is for Mag'har? Yes, obviously. Are the Mag'har in any way barred from these customization options? No, actually.

    If you look at the customization options that Draenor Orcs have, it's the following:
    -War Paint (Bleeding Hollow)
    -Tattoos (Warsong)
    -Regular Brown (Frostwolves et al)
    -Gray Skin (Blackrock)
    -Pale Skin, Stumps and Poison Vials (Shattered Hand)
    I mean, that's really the overwhelming majority of customization options for Draenor Orcs.

    Now, while the Mag'har might have been showcased as being entirely Brown, there's a very significant case for that to be set aside (After all, Nightborne prior to BfA prepurchase had far less variation as well). The Mag'har have, at the very least, Frostwolf, Warsong, Blackrock and Bleeding Hollow Orcs. They could very well have every single customization option available to Draenor Orcs. The only thing that the Mag'har aren't explicitly shown as having are Shattered Hand Orcs, which we're obviously not going to get anyway.

    The Pale Skin might be nice, but it would come alone with the baggage of a severed hand, which is obviously a no-go.

    Given that Mag'har have the option to have every single customization option that playable Draenor Orcs could have, there's really no good reason to vote for Draenor Orcs. Unlike Draenor Orcs, the Mag'har actually have characters that can meaningfully interact with the story, without cheapening anything. AU Grom can't do that. AU Durotan can't do that. Jorin Deadeye can.
    This.

    People need to realize customization options is ultimately up to Blizzard, not lore.

    Even if Blizzard adds AU orcs, it doesn't mean they will include all the different skin colors too. Hell, for all we know they may only plan on adding clans with brown skin. What in Blizzard's history makes you think they are so generous?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Paraka View Post
    It's not like I am championing AU Orcs much, either. Though honestly it'll probably be easier for them to write something (and for them to salvage that horrid ending WoD had, it'll be maximum cringe at the best scenario). Plus, some reason, people genuinely feel like AU Grom is still a relevant badass.

    It's pretty much asspull either way. "YEARS of Mag'har on the side of of the Horde? Better somehow recruit them again! Oh! And suddenly we know of the other clans now existing in Outland! Shove them in our banner champion!" Almost like pretending the asspull from AU wasn't a thing to justify and equally big asspull.

    Only reason I mention anything "new" Orc with Fel Orcs is because Legion is now gone, this should open up the idea that what remains of the Fel Orcs are either rampaging and aimless, and some may be coming off the blood high. Hell, you can be on a kidnapping mission and running Apothecary tests on them til one comes to. Or go the whole Void Elf way and make some leader of the sobering Fel Orcs, and assist Nazgrel with tracking them down. He hasn't done garbage since TBC, and just standing around in Thrallmar for 10 years is probably heinous on his knees. They could even make Hellfire Peninsula a warfront to make it that much more urgent between the two factions, make Outland feel desirable again.
    Recruitment is not an issue. Darkiron dwarves have been in the Alliance for a while too.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Teri View Post
    Outland orcs, main universe, don't mess up timelines.

    We certainly don't need any Draenor named characters to appear on Azeroth, not even Durotan.

    Gul'dan should be the only and last cross-over Orc.

    Retcon Outland all you want, but don't mix universes.

    Also that recent wolf mount clearly says Mag'har Direwolf.
    May we retain the entirety of Outland? That'd be great.

    First Mag'har means uncorrupted in Orcish. So this can still technically pertain to AU since post corruption of Hellfire. So you cannot fully take that for face value.

  5. #85
    Outland because WOD never happen. Garrosh kil himself and bring back guldan to life, period.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Paraka View Post
    It's not like I am championing AU Orcs much, either. Though honestly it'll probably be easier for them to write something (and for them to salvage that horrid ending WoD had, it'll be maximum cringe at the best scenario). Plus, some reason, people genuinely feel like AU Grom is still a relevant badass.

    It's pretty much asspull either way. "YEARS of Mag'har on the side of of the Horde? Better somehow recruit them again! Oh! And suddenly we know of the other clans now existing in Outland! Shove them in our banner champion!" Almost like pretending the asspull from AU wasn't a thing to justify and equally big asspull.

    Only reason I mention anything "new" Orc with Fel Orcs is because Legion is now gone, this should open up the idea that what remains of the Fel Orcs are either rampaging and aimless, and some may be coming off the blood high. Hell, you can be on a kidnapping mission and running Apothecary tests on them til one comes to. Or go the whole Void Elf way and make some leader of the sobering Fel Orcs, and assist Nazgrel with tracking them down. He hasn't done garbage since TBC, and just standing around in Thrallmar for 10 years is probably heinous on his knees. They could even make Hellfire Peninsula a warfront to make it that much more urgent between the two factions, make Outland feel desirable again.
    The problem with using AU Grom is it lessens the actions of his MU counterpart. Then we open the flood gates for people like Durotan and all the other surviving AU counterparts. It just makes things needlessly complicated.

    The Maghar could easily be explained away by saying those Orcs who were in the Horde were just people who followed Garrosh. The rest of the Maghar could have stayed in Outlabd with no intention of joining the ranks of the Horde, until now. Similar to how there are a bunch of Dark Irons who followed Moria, but the majority did not. As for why they would change there minds now, the fact that Outland is slowly breaking apart could be the reason why they all have to leave and find a new home on Azeroth. Maybe Sylvanas promise of a secure Horde empire is super appealing to them. Either way it's much less forced than getting the AU on their side.

    As for Fel Orcs, I've made posts in the past about how they would be a cool allied race. The Horde accidentally has a Fel Orc among their ranks already sitting outside the Dark Portal, and they were given a lot more cosmetic variety with WoD. The problem is we already know Maghar orcs are on their way. Ideally the allied race system will be expanded upon a lot in the future so we can get things like the Broken, Taunka, Fel Orcs, ect. For now though, brown orcs are coming and I really just don't think the AU is the right way to go.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Indus Siebenschraube View Post
    Time for my first thread, oh boy
    *clears throat*

    BfA Alpha Speculation everyone, and I know this topic is spicy, but first: The facts.
    After Ion Hazzikostas mentioned Draenor Orcs as a future allied race in the January 30 Q&A, we all didn't know, what Draenor Orcs are meant. We live in a timeline where Draenor isn't really "Draenor", because Outland, but I guess I don't need to explain that to you.
    Last week's Alpha 26010 added a Gorgrond map, which first sparked the discussion. Gorgrond, not Blade's Edge Mountains. Also the Gorgrond map had no structures whatsoever, because it was stripped clean of them. I assume because it's not needed for a scenario, which is going to be built from half-scratch anyway. So it was obvious that it will be the alternative Orcs from Draenor...right?
    Well...not really, because Alpha 26032 added the "Mag'har Direwolf", a direct link to the Mag'har Orcs from Outland.

    The question at this point is...why? We now have one point for Draenor Orcs and one point for Draenor...well, Outland Orcs. At this point I'd first like you to answer the poll, what you think would be better. And why?

    Now to the speculations, and I really want to know your opinion on that, because otherwise I wouldn't open a thread for that matter.
    In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, the Allied Race will be the Mag'har Orcs, but from alternative Draenor.
    I know you'll ask one very important thing right now and asking that is only right: But the Mag'har are from Outland, how is that possible?
    I first wanted to argue for the Outland alternative, too, but then I read up on the Mag'har. Who and what are they? So I read through their Gamepedia article and found many very important clues. One lead to another in my research, so I'll present them in the exact same order.
    1. "Mag'har" literally means "uncorrupted": This is a very relevant point. The Draenor orcs speak the same Orcish as our Orcs do, or at leas we have no case against that, so "Mag'har" will mean the same thing to them. When the orcs sacrificed EVERYTHING in Patch 6.1 you can see members of different clans. Also, the raid in Patch 6.2 showed members of different clans, very prominent in the council of hellfire-fight. We don't really know how many orcs drank the Blood of Mannoroth at that point, we can just assume it were less orcs because of their losses in most parts of Draenor and the focus on Tanaan as a zone. But we can be certain, that there are indeed uncorrupted orcs. In all clans, not only in the frostwolves, because of one thing that wasn't really prominent in the WoD Lore...
    2. The red pox and the timeline problem: The virus that made our orcs immune or at least partially immune to the fel corruption did appear "years prior to the Blood Pact with Mannoroth", so is it the same with Draenor? We know that things are different, because well I dunno, and correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't really hear anything about that in WoD, at least not after Patch 6.1. But having the red pox as a real THING in Draenor Draenor creates the perfect bridge for one thing I think everyone who is interested in the Draenor Orc Allied Race wants...
    3. Uncorrupted, but different: The Mag'har orcs are boring. Not in the slightest in terms of lore, don't get me wrong, and not in terms of characters, but in terms of clan diversity. They are members of all clans, members of all clans forming one assimilated culture of "just orcs" since decades now. If you allow even the Iron Horde-loyal orcs to be uncorrupted via the red pox, you can use any orc from any clan as a possible Player Character. And that's awesome, right? This opens the realistic lore-founded possibility for the Blackrock and the Laughing Skull Clan, this opens it for every clan we visited on Draenor. You could call it lame storytelling, but in the end, wouldn't it be just pure logic that lets the red pox exist in alternative Draenor? That will lead to the orcish speaking population to call the uncorrupted Orcs "Mag'har"? That will lead the horde protagonists, together with Eitrigg, Thrall, Saurfang (or whoever, that's some discussion for another day), to recruit them for the Horde? I think it is. But what do YOU think?

    Thank you for reading this, I hope I was succesfull in throwing in some new firewood to the already burning discussion with my first thread™. I hope we can have a nice politeful discussion here, but maybe it will just be a shitshow, obviously I can't see in the future and maybe this whole essay is obsolete in a few hours when a new Alpha patch renames the "Mag'har Direwolf" in, I dunno, "Gorgrond Wolfie", or whatever, but we are here to speculate, because that's why we're here, right?
    Indeed i think its the ( we shall not speak of it expansion) orcs.
    But i wonder, how will they counter this for the alliance? They think those fox thingies will be horde, then dreanor orcs. That is 2 races ( possible ones*) data mined already.

  8. #88
    I want Draenor, because I want Mag'har, blackrock/dragonmaw (blackskin) and every other kind of orc skin color. It's god damn 2018, the games been out over a decade, no reason to limit character customization options anymore.
    Priest Warrior Paladin
    You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
    You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
    You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
    You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

  9. #89
    It's Daenor Orcs. The time traveling ones.

    The Outland Orcs are already in-game.

  10. #90
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    Whichever it is, it will be Alliance.

  11. #91
    I don't want to brag about the thing that I was right, but...
    "Drahnor. Draynor? Draanur. Draenor. <Sigh>. I'm just gonna say I'm from Outland."

    http://de.wowhead.com/news=282150/ma...kes-and-flirts
    - German Roleplayer and Warcraft Pen&Paper-Game Master. ("Indus" is one of my most liked character creations)
    - After one year I learned one important thing: Never ever go to the off-topic forums.
    - Main History: Blood DK (WotLK/Cata), Holy Paladin (Cata), Mistweaver Monk (MoP), Retribution Paladin (MoP/WoD), Windwalker Monk (Legion), Tank Paladin (BfA)

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Indus Siebenschraube View Post
    I don't want to brag about the thing that I was right, but...
    "Drahnor. Draynor? Draanur. Draenor. <Sigh>. I'm just gonna say I'm from Outland."

    http://de.wowhead.com/news=282150/ma...kes-and-flirts
    I think it's an inside joke from Blizzard that it actually doesn't matter if it's outland or draenor since brown orcs are... basically brown orcs no matter where they come from :P

  13. #93
    Well they do ask is we are the one that left an abandoned garrison in Frostfire, and that Warchief Hellscream has a fit when they dye their hair green.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Indus Siebenschraube View Post
    I don't want to brag about the thing that I was right, but...
    "Drahnor. Draynor? Draanur. Draenor. <Sigh>. I'm just gonna say I'm from Outland."

    http://de.wowhead.com/news=282150/ma...kes-and-flirts
    This is actually proof that they're from Draenor and not Outland, the joke is that Outland is easier to pronounce and explain. But I guess the joke flew right over your head.

  15. #95
    i just wanna forget all about alternate universes and timetraveling nonsense.
    i'm good with just the cool looking gear we got with wod.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    This is actually proof that they're from Draenor and not Outland, the joke is that Outland is easier to pronounce and explain. But I guess the joke flew right over your head.
    I mean...did you even read my post? I argued for the "Mag'har" being from Draenor...
    - German Roleplayer and Warcraft Pen&Paper-Game Master. ("Indus" is one of my most liked character creations)
    - After one year I learned one important thing: Never ever go to the off-topic forums.
    - Main History: Blood DK (WotLK/Cata), Holy Paladin (Cata), Mistweaver Monk (MoP), Retribution Paladin (MoP/WoD), Windwalker Monk (Legion), Tank Paladin (BfA)

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Indus Siebenschraube View Post
    Time for my first thread, oh boy
    *clears throat*
    Such a nice first try, a long ass wall of text.

    Good job Indos Seibenschraben.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    This is actually proof that they're from Draenor and not Outland, the joke is that Outland is easier to pronounce and explain. But I guess the joke flew right over your head.
    Outland used to be called Draenor

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