Active shooter situation at Florida high school, at least 20 injured so far

[Paperplates]

My guns are legal and I’ve trained to use them for many purposes from hunting to target shooting to self defense. It’s real simple I’m a gun owner and you simply aren’t taking away my gun or going to get me to support disarming because of how you feel and your failed understandings about guns.

Clear enough for you?

Right wing fucks banned all the drugs when everyone was having fun taking them. "Kids are dying, kids are addicts, it's horrible". You can keep your guns when I can take drugs freely and legally.

The odds of one of our guns being stolen or handled by one of our 3 children are impossibly low.

Still more of a chance than when you have zero guns....

[plagueshard801]

In this case the failure is on the legal enforcement agencies, there is no way given the evidence that he should have not been checked out more / forced to under go psychological treatment.

Yep. Couldn't agree more.

But where do you draw that line? I have joked with co-workers about burning down my office building before... fuck, who hasn't?. Do we deserve to be put on watch lists? I also own a solid lineup of guns and hundreds or rounds of ammo for each of them. Does that make me a higher risk? Should I be stripped of all my weapons, and be forced to undergo mental screening for saying I'd love to burn this motherfucker down while the boss is inside?

My point is, I believe it to be impossible to draw that kind of line between reasonable enforcement and violation of civil rights in our society. People say a lot of stupid shit.

[petej0]

I also think you should absolutely be required to report a stolen or lost gun immediately to the authorities to the point where there could be charges if your lost weapon is ever used in a crime and not reported, you also should be able to show you took reasonable steps to keep the gun secure.

I actually agree with this too and willing to go further. If you "lost" of had firearms "stolen" on more then two occasions then you are denied any further firearm purchases.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Right wing fucks banned all the drugs when everyone was having fun taking them. "Kids are dying, kids are addicts, it's horrible". You can keep your guns when I can take drugs freely and legally.

First off I am not right wing, so you are barking up the wrong tree about the War on Drugs policy, as for my guns you aren't taking them, and nobody is giving them up. Nobody cares about kids as you seem to point out, so it isn't a simple left right issue.

If people were seriously concerned about guns there are a lot of other things these kids would have and get, before my guns that would have prevented this, but since none of those things happened first, I am not going to hear it about how dangerous guns are.

[Casterbridge]

I actually agree with this too and willing to go further. If you "lost" of had firearms "stolen" on more then two occasions then you are denied any further firearm purchases.

That makes sense.

[Elegiac]

I'm okay with almost all of these with some caveats.

You should know in Florida for example most handguns are sold with no real safety mechanism (does depend on type of pistol), the idea of not having one is the pistol is perfectly safe as long as you keep the trigger clear and also have not modified it so has a light draw weight, but I'm not going to cry if suddenly all guns are required to have a safety.

I really do like the requirements for training and such, every time I go to the range I am guaranteed to see at minimum one idiot with a firearm, and if they are being an idiot at the range I can only imagine what they do in private.

I agree with the requirement of owning a gun safe, I think owning 2 is a bit extreme, though perhaps it would depend on the amount of ammo you kept in your home? Neutral on telling the police about it, I mean sure if the police have reason to come into my house it makes sense, but to register it seems odd? Not really against it.

Not problem with the transporting rule, it actually is the rule in Florida to keep the gun in a covered case etc, again minus the safety aspect.

Hunting requirements don't bother me as I don't hunt, I do think you will have a lot of resistance to it, but eh it does make sense especially to try and keep long guns out of the hands of people who should not have them.

The CWP I'm neutral on, I mean I have one, and if they suddenly revoked it I wouldn't cry about it. I do think it's a bit easy to get one, I think the training requirement needs to be much more in depth, since I think you should be required to have training and education to own a firearm at all.

Gun insurance I'm again neutral on, I mean what are you trying to cover with it? I do know of insurance available (more of a cost sharing thing) for if you are ever involved in a legal shooting, the cost of the lawyer is covered to assist you get through any criminal or civil issues, again this assuming the shooting was legal on your part (self defense), I could see something like that being required?

I also think you should absolutely be required to report a stolen or lost gun immediately to the authorities to the point where there could be charges if your lost weapon is ever used in a crime and not reported, you also should be able to show you took reasonable steps to keep the gun secure.

Again, most of these are drawn from existing regulations surrounding cars; so they should sound fairly sensible.

The insurance part is largely to put increased burden of safety on gun owners in the case of theft or use by a family member; in order to get out of having to be held liable for insurance purposes they need to, as you said, demonstrate they took reasonable steps to keep the gun secure.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I actually agree with this too and willing to go further. If you "lost" of had firearms "stolen" on more then two occasions then you are denied any further firearm purchases.

Exactly this stupid POS planned this kind of garbage for a year.

[Tinykong]

Guns made sense 300 years ago when America was mostly empty and the only protection you had was the gun. Today, we have police for this. They can be authorized to have a gun.

Gun rights made sense 300 years ago because the framers of the Constitution could not have possible envisioned a weapon like the AR-15.

A group of 10 American colonists carrying AR-15s could have probably won the Revolutionary War single handedly, provided they had enough ammunition.

[Independent voter]

Here's a list of potential regulations to effect better managed firearm sales:

- You are required to get a permit to learn how to use a gun.
- You must pass an exam with 18 or more questions on laws about guns and gun ownership, with 8 or more errors necessitating the exam be taken again at a later date.
- You must have at least 30 hours of practical experience at a gun range with a state licensed instructor.
- You must complete a five hour class on the dangers of firearms and proper gun safety, which will then yield a certificate that allows you to take the practical exam and lasts for one year. If you don't gain the license within the allotted year, you must retake the class.
- Said practical exam is proctored by a licensed instructor who will grade you on various skills. If you pass you may only be granted a license on the weapon of your choice, and the exams may differ according to the type of firearm license.
- You must own at least two gun safes in different areas of the house; one to store the gun, and one to store the ammunition. The location of these safes must be provided to the police.
- No concealed carry, and only handguns may be allowed to be out in public.
- If transporting a weapon it must be in the trunk of the vehicle in a bag or some other case, with the safety on.
- Hunters and other hobbyists using rifles or other weapons must keep their guns on the premises whether that is a gun range or the Fish and Wildlife facility. Exceptions may be made for rural dwellers who require rifles for protection from wildlife and the like.
- You are required to purchase gun insurance for each weapon.

It works in England cause England doesn't have a gun culture.

It won't work in the US and it's pretty foolish to think it will.

Shooters will simply go through the steps, go out and shoot people an blow their brains out. You can write all the violations you want.

[Elegiac]

It works in England cause England doesn't have a gun culture.

I wasn't talking about England at all.

As I said, these are regulations drawn from American laws surrounding cars. Or are you going to claim that America doesn't have a car culture? Lol.

[Joathen]

Yep. Couldn't agree more.

But where do you draw that line? I have joked with co-workers about burning down my office building before... fuck, who hasn't?. Do we deserve to be put on watch lists? I also own a solid lineup of guns and hundreds or rounds of ammo for each of them. Does that make me a higher risk? Should I be stripped of all my weapons, and be forced to undergo mental screening for saying I'd love to burn this motherfucker down while the boss is inside?

My point is, I believe it to be impossible to draw that kind of line between reasonable enforcement and violation of civil rights in our society. People say a lot of stupid shit.

I chuckled because this is all true.

[petej0]

I wasn't talking about England at all.

As I said, these are regulations drawn from American laws surrounding cars. Or are you going to claim that America doesn't have a car culture? Lol.

Yes, but how many fucking idiots do you see driving on the road despite all the laws we have. People know the rules of the road and simply ignore them. They can do the same here if they are really intent on killing people.

Just because they plan on shooting up a Target (pun intended) during black friday sales rush 8 months from now does not mean they wont be the good citizen and pass all required tests and get the proper licenses for the weapon.

[Elegiac]

Yes, but how many fucking idiots do you see driving on the road despite all the laws we have. People know the rules of the road and simply ignore them. They can do the same here if they are really intent on killing people.

Just because they plan on shooting up a Target (pun intended) during black friday sales rush 8 months from now does not mean they wont be the good citizen and pass all required tests and get the proper licenses for the weapon.

That doesn't mean we should not make it more difficult to enact said plans while also combating instances of casual abuse.

[Slant]

FBI taking the warning serious, anyone taking all the warning sign serious? Better mental health programs.

The US already has the most widespread use of "therapy" of all kinds. What do you think having even more would improve? And how many warnings does the FBI get? What should they do with the other thousands of warnings they get every year? What should they have done? Shut the school down? How does that prevent the attacker from... simply going home and doing it another day?

[petej0]

That doesn't mean we should not make it more difficult to enact said plans while also combating instances of casual abuse.

I agree we should, but dont be disillusioned into thinking these types of laws will end all mass shootings. It wont, but when it still happens the "gun grabbers" will be out in full force again, trying to think up the next possible legislation. Short of a ban you will always have gun deaths because our society is too fucking violent.

[zenkai]

The US already has the most widespread use of "therapy" of all kinds. What do you think having even more would improve? And how many warnings does the FBI get? What should they do with the other thousands of warnings they get every year? What should they have done? Shut the school down? How does that prevent the attacker from... simply going home and doing it another day?

If you have a kid saying he wants to be a professional school shooter and he buys an AR and that doesn't throw up red bells in the FBI then they need to improve their system.

[Chaelexi]

Okay so you take all the guns, suddenly people will only use pocket knives?

How many mass killing have happened in Japan in the last 10 years. The answer is 2. Guess what they do not have guns readily available to the public. One was with a knife where he broke into a hospital and killed patients that were sleeping and the other the guy drove a truck into a crowd. And that is with significantly higher population density than the US. SO tell me again that guns do not enable a killer.

[spdr]

This is all fucked up.

My wife and I own 15 different guns of various types: handguns, assault rifles and shotguns, hunting rifles and shotguns, collector guns from various wars. We love shooting and we do it responsibly. We keep our guns in one safe, ammo in another. The odds of one of our guns being stolen or handled by one of our 3 children are impossibly low. Obviously we very much support our right to bear arms.

But there are too many dead kids. The rate schools get shot up is fucking insane. I don't know where I stand anymore.

Too many dead kids.

The bold pretty much tells where you stand. For having so many firearms you arent very well educated. Unless you actually have machine guns, then I apologize.

How many mass killing have happened in Japan in the last 10 years. The answer is 2. Guess what they do not have guns readily available to the public. One was with a knife where he broke into a hospital and killed patients that were sleeping and the other the guy drove a truck into a crowd. And that is with significantly higher population density than the US. SO tell me again that guns do not enable a killer.

Different countries have different problems. What's the difference in suicide rate between the us and Japan? How about the differences in gang population and drug use?

[Grimlokh]

Awwwww NA and their guns...how cute!!

[Chaelexi]

The other amendment was referring to your comments about the cops could come check how the gun is stored and stuff. Soon as you allow that you are trending on the 4th amendment, very dangerously imo.

And yes i agree guns should be store safely, even if not in a safe. The family members I have that do own guns more are stored in a safe, i think only one isn't and its well hidden. Not storing guns loaded is one of those debate things as well, as if a gun is to be used for home defense not having it loaded (Depending on gun type) would slow the home owner down considerably. Not saying yes or not on that part just that both ways come with risks, that i think the owner should determine themselves.

Using a gun for home defense ends up escalating a situation and will end with you or your family getting hurt more often then not......