Solution for Antonidas

[ryjkur]

Solution for this problem is that Antonidas would no longer generate Fireballs if there is 4 Sorcerer's Apprentices on board.

[XDurionX]

Exodia Mage is not even a good deck.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Make it so that the Fireballs generated by Antonidas cannot cost less than (2).
That way they can still finish you on the bonus turn if you played bad, and you have a chance at coming back if you managed your health carefully.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Exodia Mage is not even a good deck.

Nor was quest rogue, it wasn't nerfed because it was excessively powerful, it was nerfed because it was not fun to play against. You're just trying to rush them down in case they drew "win the game" this turn.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Nor was quest rogue, it wasn't nerfed because it was excessively powerful, it was nerfed because it was not fun to play against. You're just trying to rush them down in case they drew "win the game" this turn.

Exactly. As an ex-quest rogue player, I know how it feels to be on both ends of an uninteractive deck. Quest rogue was not unbeatable, I lost tons of matches because I couldn't draw what I needed. If that got nerfed, mage should also be nerfed for the exact same reason.

[XDurionX]

Nor was quest rogue, it wasn't nerfed because it was excessively powerful, it was nerfed because it was not fun to play against. You're just trying to rush them down in case they drew "win the game" this turn.

That's legit.

[Deleted]

Make it so that the Fireballs generated by Antonidas cannot cost less than (2).
That way they can still finish you on the bonus turn if you played bad, and you have a chance at coming back if you managed your health carefully.

This would be a good solution. Otherwise they could change Antonidas to give you a random spell. In my mind this would be a fun alternative to his current effect, but I like random effects so this would not fare well with everybody considering the general distaste for overly random effects.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

That's legit.

Legit, yes. Fun, not really.

[XDurionX]

Legit, yes. Fun, not really.

I meant it's legit to nerf the combo, sorry for the confusion.

[ryjkur]

Exodia Mage is not even a good deck.

It's extremely NOT fun to play against. No matter how many armor you got mage will OTK you.

[Nfinitii]

Solution for this problem is that Antonidas would no longer generate Fireballs if there is 4 Sorcerer's Apprentices on board.

Antonidas isn't that big of a problem, it's not played in every Mage deck and usually requires some amount of set up for it to be good. Ie cheap spells and the mana to cast them.

If u really wanted to nerf quest Mage the main problem card is ice block, it's very powerful in all forms of control Mage. It prolongs the game which quest Mage greatly needs. It's actually really ez to rush down quest Mage, the main problem is when they get 2+ ice blocks and extend the game long enough for them to find all of their pieces. Slower decks can also run dirty rat to pull sorcerers apprentice or antonidas out of their hand and destroy them before quest Mage can combo off. The optimal time to do this is right before u think they r going to combo or when u know they have played all their other minions. Quest Mage is actually pretty ez to beat it's just gets frustrating when they hit a 3rd or 4th ice block.

[Zyky]

Solution for this problem is that Antonidas would no longer generate Fireballs if there is 4 Sorcerer's Apprentices on board.

Ya no, the amount of code that would require would break too many things. The solution is to make the Fireballs he generates unable to be reduced in cost. Or make it so that Apprentice can't make anything cost less than 1, similar to many other cards that work for minions.

[Kronik85]

Not entirely sure HS needs to fix things that aren't actually a problem. The smart money is on Ice Block going to HoF anyway which would break Quest Mage on it's own.

[Deleted]

Why would there need to be a solution for Antonidas? The card(and the exodia mage interaction) is fine.

[Colmadero]

Why would there need to be a solution for Antonidas? The card(and the exodia mage interaction) is fine.

This is how I feel about the card.

It does take almost all of the game to setup and a single card can mess you up (Eater of Secrets or Flare)

[Nikkaszal]

The issue isn't Antonidas. Tony himself is fine. The problematic card in the Quest Mage situation is Ice Block.

And I'm not talking about game-balance, I'm addressing the "unfun" nature of being stonewalled by a Quest Mage knowing there is dick-all you can do about it.

The problem with Ice Block is that it allows the mage to keep continually fishing for combo pieces with zero regard for the board state or his own safety. Instead of having to assemble a combo while simultaneously neutralising threats, Ice Blocks allow the mage the comfort and security of two turns where they know they CANNOT die, which allows more time to keep digging and spend mana on deck thinning rather than defence.

It gets even worse when they pull more Blocks from Glyph/Tome etc.

The problem is that there is no viable counter for it. Sure you could tech in Eater, but you are hurting yourself against everything else when you tech for one specific situation against a deck that is not the most prolific. You might get a win or two here and there with a timely Eater, sure, but 99% of the time that Mage will confidently keep ignoring defence and trust in Block, with success.

[Shadowsgrace]

Solution for this problem is that Antonidas would no longer generate Fireballs if there is 4 Sorcerer's Apprentices on board.

Exodia mage requires a lot of really good RNG to pull off successfully. If anything, Kingbane Rogue is way worse, and easier to pull off. You don't see posts cry about that one.

[Kralljin]

The problem with Ice Block is that it allows the mage to keep continually fishing for combo pieces with zero regard for the board state or his own safety.

Ice Block wasn't a serious problem until Blizzard added a shit ton of random card generation and Arcanologist to mages.

Seriously, previously playing against Freeze Mage was like: Sit out 2x Frost novas, 2x Blizzards (along with Doomsayer(s)), pop the block, hope he doesn't draw the 2nd one, if he does, break it again and kill him.

Not easy but possible, but now it's just one massive joke once a mage starts throwing around randomnly generated Blizzard, Frost Nova or Ice blocks, he pretty much always has two in hand thanks to Arcanologist.


I always hated Ice block, but these two factors broke the card.

[Taalyn]

It's extremely NOT fun to play against. No matter how many armor you got mage will OTK you.

False. You can only play so many cards before the rope ends your turn. You could have enough armor that the mage's turn ends before he can kill you. Alternatively, Nozdormu or Noggenfogger are hard counters.

[Sulfate]

Noggenfogger, yes. Nozdormu is hardly a counter though, since you'd just need to sink the first two fireballs into him, then proceed to OTK.

Adding "Cannot cost less than (2)" to Fireball's text would be a really cheesy way for them to nerf Antonidas without a dust refund (see also: Thermaplugg and leper gnome nerf). But I think the more fair nerf would be "Whenever you cast a spell that costs (1) or more..."