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  1. #341
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khirok View Post
    Not what Chronicles says, but alright. Keep your headcanon,
    chronicles didn't retcon what happened in undercity, just said Garrosh make things wore invading woodlands, lol

  2. #342
    I remember the exact moment I gave up on my character having any sense of consistency or morality.

    It was when I was required, as a Paladin of the Silver Hand, to torture a prisoner for information.

    Worse, I was required to do this so the Kirin Tor could pretend their hands were clean.

    It's an admirable stance, but give it up. Both factions are evil, just accept it and move on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Khirok View Post
    Not what Chronicles says, but alright. Keep your headcanon,
    Oh, have they retconned what happened during WotLK? I admit I expected it to take another year or two before they started rewriting WotLK.... but given what they did with Illidan in Legion, I suppose WotLK was due.

  3. #343
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicola87 View Post
    That's it.

    I have read that the horde is going to burn Teldrassil. I m not interested if the Alliance struck first Undercity or attacked in Silithus..if Sylvanas or any goblin fools is going to burn Teldrassil i will not partecipate.

    Yes, i prefer to froze my character instead of doing this. War is a thing, mass murdering people or destroy our world is another. I don t know how blizzard would do this but i must admit, for the first time i m reallly worried about where the horde is going... yes Garrosh was also a very grim moment in our history but i hoped that after him the horde would have return to his "way of honor"

    Sylvanas as our warchief is ofc a time-bomb...like every forsaken. I know they have suffered a lot and they are fighting constantly for survival but their methods has always been.."extreme" at least..

    Really watching how blizzard will manage this..
    whether or not you personally want to burn it or not doesn't change the fact that its going to happen. Unless you quit playing the game forever, your "freezing your character" won't do anything since the story will continue whether you want this story to happen or not.

  4. #344
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    Agreed.

    Why... why, on Azeroth, anyone thinks Theramore 2.0 is a good idea? Why Horde has to be forced into pointless war by a powerhungry leader of questionable mental health once again? Can't we just exile Sylvanas, make Vol'jin (oh, right)... Baine the warchief and be done with it?

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by InnsmouthDweller View Post
    Agreed.

    Why... why, on Azeroth, anyone thinks Theramore 2.0 is a good idea? Why Horde has to be forced into pointless war by a powerhungry leader of questionable mental health once again? Can't we just exile Sylvanas, make Vol'jin (oh, right)... Baine the warchief and be done with it?
    you realize the horde and alliance are already at war?

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinduffen View Post
    you realize the horde and alliance are already at war?
    Really? Tell me more. You realize destroying cities is perhaps somehow related to this?

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by InnsmouthDweller View Post
    Really? Tell me more. You realize destroying cities is perhaps somehow related to this?
    you act as if the burning of darnassus was the beginning of this war when it was not. the horde and alliance are at war as of legion. comprehend?

  8. #348
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khirok View Post
    Not what Chronicles says, but alright. Keep your headcanon,
    The headcanon is strong with horde fanbois. Why would Blizzard lie about who started the war, it would get them nothing (besides some tears as seen here in the forum, lol).

  9. #349
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    Point still stands, that they were a huge part of the Horde army and therefore representing the Horde. You can try to argue as much as you want, at that point, the Horde was evil. It's no nonsense, if they wouldn't be evil then no rebellion would have been formed.
    Your point is a bland simplification that anyone who actually read Tides of War would see for what it is. In fact, back then the greater amount of harm the Kor'kron delivered was first and foremost against Horde members, the Theramore prisoners came late to the party. No doubt the mushroom shopper who was reduced to a pulp by Malkorok's Gestapo squad was one hell of an evil mofo, being "represented" as he was by people who beat the shit out of him.

    My point was about people saying the Horde gave the ship of civillians a way to escape. Capturing a ship of civillians is evil, especially when apperantly giving them a "way to escape" just to lure them into their own deaths, again, at that point the Horde was evil therefore creating a Rebellion.
    And again, there's no direct correlation between the capturing and the torturing. Saying "they were captured to be tortured" is unsubstantiated, especially when these were showed to be tortured just at the same time of the Horde rebels. The only hint we have is Nazgrim's words in one of MoP cinematics, where he mentions a naval battle occurring around the shores of Tanaris. Chances are the ship ended up in a crossfire and the people inside were taken prisoners (because that's what you do with people belonging to a faction you're at war, civilians or not).

    Yes it is, since it's a military part of the Horde, it's simple as that .
    Except it's not that simple and I already explained why, I'll not do it again.

    Which makes the warning having a purpose then? Good that you finally see the meaning behind it.
    Seriously? Stop running in circles. Jaina feeling the warning was useful because she knew nothing of Garrosh's true plan (much like Baine himself) does not mean it was. Both Baine and Jaina believed it had a purpose because both were utterly ignorant of Garrosh's secret mana bomb plan.

    It's the Horde, the Darkspears rebelling against them makes them a Rebellion.
    Yes, because it was just the Darkspear trolls rebelling, not literally every other Horde race as well and even the majority of the orcs. Again (even though you joyfully ignored it) Garrosh named his faction of followers True Horde. I mean, that's totally what someone who believes to actually represent the New Horde faction would do.

    So a ship should be possible to hold all civilians of an entire city and their surroundings. Interesting, but yes please pick the exact line where it says all civilians could escape on that ship, I can't remember and searching it myself I couldn't find it.
    What a strange thing, because it required me a few clicks on the word "ship" to find it:

    Shortly after the arrival of the 7th fleet, Jaina had insisted that one ship, the Starsword, be dispatched to bear the civilians of the city who wished to leave to safety. All of the children went aboard, and many of their families. Others chose to stay. It was their home; they loved it as Jaina did and wanted to defend it.
    Moreover, checking the page I also remembered that:

    Ratchet would have been the first choice, and from there the ship would have traveled to Stranglethorn. Unfortunately, while the goblins who ran Ratchet were neutral considering the flood of Horde that had recently passed through that town, Ratchet was deemed far too unsafe for Alliance refugees. So instead, the Starsword had sailed for Gadgetzan.
    greatly confiming the hint about the ship ending up into one of the naval battles around the shores of Tanaris, mentioned by Nazgrim.

    Plus:

    “The draenei shaman have assured me that with the cooperation of the air and water elementals, the trip will go much more quickly,” Jaina said.
    “Perhaps,” said Stoutblow. “But the ship just sailed a few hours ago. We canna hope tae see it back afore tomorrow at the earliest.”
    “Children never belong in battle,” said Tiras’alan quietly. “Even if it means we do not have a battleship available, transporting them to safety was the right choice.”
    “The young are indeed too precious to risk,” said Shandris. “And also… civilians only get in the way.”
    It's that enough? Or I have to bear more of your bullshit?

    And no, it does not prove that all civilians wanted to stay
    Explain how, please. Seriously, explain how being allowed to choose is not enough to prove that anyone who stayed did it willingly?

    Also Garrosh didn't do anything against it, so it still makes him and the Horde (soldiers of the Horde doing the torturing) evil at that point.
    Garrosh didn't do anything against it because, as I said, he often struggled to keep his followers in check and he was one hell of a busy dude during the siege of Orgrimmar. And seriously, I really have to explain again that Garrosh and the Kor'kron literally became the "True Horde", dissociating themselves from the rest of the actual Horde?

    I mean you can try to dodge the reality as much as you want.
    That's truly ironic, now more than ever.

    Garrosh was evil that's why he got rekt by the Alliance, and the Horde at that point was evil as well, causing a Rebellion against that Horde.
    This entire line is a condensation of fallacious horseshit but I already explained why that's the case for the most part. I'll just add a loud LOL to you for comically ignoring that the Alliance rekted Garrosh alongside the "evil Horde" but hey, I sympathize with that choice. After all, trying to make your nonsense look as something different from what it is has been pretty much the entire goal of your avoidable reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    The headcanon is strong with horde fanbois. Why would Blizzard lie about who started the war, it would get them nothing (besides some tears as seen here in the forum, lol).
    You really should keep your mouth shut after your poor performance. You surely didn't make your fellow Alliance fanboys look any better. And no, @Syegfryed has a point. The guy you quoted is clinging to a few lines coming from the Chronicle preview, failing to realize that Varian's war declaration wasn't retconned by that in any way. It's still Varian the one declaring war, then it'll be Garrosh escalating the hostlities later.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2018-03-15 at 06:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  10. #350
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    *More Headcannon*
    You come nearly two weeks late , I can't be arsed to show how twisted your thoughts are to defend a evil nazi horde again (Poor Garrosh couldn't do anything, lmao), so that you re-appear 2 weeks afterwards. Your argumentation is based on head cannon, stuff like

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    The only hint we have is Nazgrim's words.
    or
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Chances are the ship ended up in a crossfire
    holds no weight at all, since it's your head canon, so stating that you "explained" something is funny. I know it's hard to accept the Horde messed up for you, but you should face reality and accept what happened some expansions ago.


    Especially salty insults like
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    You really should keep your mouth shut after your poor performance
    dismiss you for taking any kind of normal discussion. I didn't know this was a competition as well, hence the poor performance . I'll give you a pass for that one though, since watching someone being butthurt about lore is amusing.

    But I have to thank you though for showing what my last comment was about. Salty tears of a horde fanboi falling.
    Last edited by Leodric; 2018-03-15 at 08:25 PM.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    From the perspective of the undead, I think undeath is less of the problem and more the mind-control they suffered under Arthas that made them kill their families as they watched their own hands rip apart the people they loved in mute horror, unable to so much as scream out "No! Don't do this!" as they forced flesh into their gnashing teeth...

    Ultimate body horror and mindrape.

    Being undead has got to be a better state than just being dead, after all.
    Basically dealing with the hand they were dealt. And no doubt some bitterness with what they were forced to endure, not to mention the disdain others carry for their kind simply because of their nature and appearance.

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