A world with free immigration could be $78 trillion richer

[Shinra1]

https://www.economist.com/news/world...ould-be-bribed


[*]- Workers become more productive when they move from a poor country to a richer one with more efficient firms and better capital.

[*]- It is more difficult to transfer better institutions into countries than it is to transfer people from those countries into ones with better institutions.

[*]- Not all people from poor countries necessarily want to immigrate. Only about 13% of workers from a given country want to emigrate to the US/UK/EU given the chance.

[*]- Open borders can actually lead to less overcrowding overall since immigrants from countries where large families are common tend to have smaller families when they immigrate, even if those families are still bigger than those of the native population

[*]- Uses example of the US to show benefits of cultural enrichment brought by waves of immigration from around the world.

[*]- There are solutions to prevent migrants from being a strain on resources or to prevent them from enacting huge political and cultural changes, such as preventing them from voting until x years in the country (after which they will be likely to have assimilated) and preventing them from receiving welfare benefits.


What do you think? The world would be a better place if anyone from any country was free to work in any country of their choice. Even low-skilled immigration can bring a multitude of benefits to an economy. Globalism is the future, nationalism is hindering progress.

[Deleted]

If they say so

[Spectral]

The pretension to precision is laughable on its face. The calculation holds many things constant that would certainly not remain constant - it doesn't account for shifts in culture, difficulty of handling infrastructure updates for population changes, damage to social trust, impact on institutions, and numerous other factors. It's the sort of argument that only the most autistic of economists would take seriously - I'm sure Bryan Kaplan loves it.

[Drusin]

What do you think?

I don't think I'd see $1 of that $78T so idc.

I guess I would get to read about warren buffets donations some more and more people bitching about how much CEOs make in comparison to the cashiers.

[Nasuuna]

it would end up with 90% of the population in western Europe, America, Israel, and Canada

The overpopulation would destroy the economy in those areas, the poor would riot.

The riots would cause untold catastrophic amounts of deaths.
And they go completely fucking crazy, and they storm the hospital. But the hospital can’t handle all the casualties. So these people rape all the nurses and set the hospital on fire. And the flames drive them even crazier so they start stabbing social workers and garbage men. And a big wind comes along and the entire city goes up in flames and the people who are still healthy they get mad at the sick people and they start crucifying them. Nailing them to crosses. Trying on their underwear, shit like that. Then everybody smokes crack and PCP and they march on city hall where they burn the mayor at the stake, strangle his wife and take turns sodomizing the statue of Larry Flynt. And at this point, at this point it looks like pretty soon things are going to start to get out of control. So everybody panics and tries to leave the city at the same time. And they trample each other to death in the streets by the thousands and wild dogs eat their corpses. And the wild dogs chase the rest of the people down the highway. And one by one the dogs pick off the old fucks and the slow people because they’re in the fast lane where they don’t belong. Get the fuck out of the fast lane if you’re an old fuck, if you’re a slow fuck, get over on the right, get over on the right. And then, the lucky ones, the lucky people who manage to make it all the way outside of town they discover when they get there, the big sparks from the city have lit the suburbs on fire and the suburbs burn uncontrollably. And thousands of identical homes have identical fires with identical smoke killing all the identical soccer moms and their identical kids named Jason and Jennifer. And now. Now the fire spreads to the farmlands and the farmlands burn intensely of 425 degrees creating millions of baked potatoes. And as the farmlands burn. As the farmlands burn. Thousands of barns and farmhouses begin to explode from all hidden methamphetamine labs. And the meth chemicals run downhill into the rivers and streams where wild animals drink the water and get completely geeked on speed. So bears and wolves amped up on crank start roaming the countryside looking for people to eat even though they’re not really hungry. Then the fire spreads to the forest. And the forest burn furiously. And hundreds of elves and trolls and fairies come running out of the woods screaming, “Bambi is dead. Bambi is dead!” And he is. He is. Finally that fucking little cunt. Bambi is dead. Dead. Now, hundreds of regional fires come together into one huge interstate inferno. And all 12 of the western United States are burning out of control except Utah where the Mormons don’t allow fires. And the fires spreads across the Great Plains toasting the wheat, cooking the cattle and producing hamburgers actually. Then it leaps to Mississippi and races through the South blowing up stills and interrupting lynching’s and killing millions of inbred people. And then it turns northeast and it heads for Washington, D.C. Where George Bush can’t decide if it’s an emergency or not. He can’t decide this. He doesn’t know. Wow. Oh it’s hard work. You know. He can’t decide because Dick Cheney is in prison. So instead he takes a nap. He takes a nap. He puts his empty, fucking brainless head down on the little pillow his mother gave him at Christmas time and he takes a fucking nap! So the fire moves to Philadelphia but it’s a weekend and Philadelphia’s closed on the weekends. So the fire moves to New York City and the people of New York tell the fire to go fuck itself. “Go fuck yourself.” And it does. And it does. So instead it burns down Long Island and Connecticut killing all the rich white assholes and completely destroying their evil. Faggoty golf courses. And while all this is going on, Canada burns to the ground but nobody notices. And now the entire North American continent is on fire producing a huge thermal updraft and creating an incendiary cyclonic macro system that forms a hemispheric mega storm breaking down the molecular structure of the atmosphere and actually changing the laws of nature. Fire and water combine. Burning clouds of flaming rain fall upward. Gamma rays and solar winds ignite the ionosphere creating huge clouds of ionized plasma. Bolts of lightning 20 million miles long begin shooting out of the North Pole. And the sky fills up with green shit. And then suddenly the entire fabric of space-time splits in two. A huge crack in the universe opens and all the dead people from the past begin falling through. Babe Ruth. Groucho Marx. Davy Crockett, Tiny Tim, Porky Pig, Hitler, Janis Joplin, Alan Ludden my Uncle Dave, your Uncle Dave. Everybody’s Uncle Dave. An endless stream of dead Uncle Dave’s falling through the crack. And all the dead Uncle Dave’s gather around a heavenly kitchen table. They light up cigarettes and they begin to talk. They talk about how they never got a break. How their parents didn’t love them. And their children were ungrateful. They talk about how the government screwed them out of money and they just missed out on a big job. They say the Jews own everything, and the blacks get special treatment. And all the hatred and bitterness drips out of these people and forms a big pool of liquid hate. And the pool of liquid hate begins to spin. Round and round it spins, faster and faster. And the faster it spins, the bigger it gets. Faster and faster. Bigger and bigger. Until the whirling pool of hate is bigger than the entire universe. And then suddenly it explodes into trillions of tiny stars. And every star has a trillion planets and every planet has a trillion Uncle Dave’s. And all the Uncle Dave’s have good jobs, perfect eyesight and shoes that fit. They have great sex lives and free health care. They understand the Internet. Their kids think they’re cool and they all love their neighbors. And every week without fail, Uncle Dave wins the lottery. Forever and ever until the end of time every single Uncle Dave has a winning ticket. And Uncle Dave is finally happy.

[Spectral]

I don't think I'd see $1 of that $78T so idc.

But Jeff Bezos will make so much that it'll be great for middle class Americans! Surely this is a compelling argument for importing a couple million Guatemalans into Southern California.

[Shinra1]

If they say so

Anyone with a basic understanding of economics will understand this.

The fact that immigrants/kids of immigrants outperform natives at schools is proof of that, just look at what's happening in the UK.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm autistic and I actually agree with this.

The figures are based on pure math, and systems that do not involve culture, or the "human" system at the bottom of the economic system that we created over it.

If every person was in control of their emotions, and did not have bias one way or another, their calculations would probably be more "right". Unfortunately just looking at the overlaying system that sits atop a sea of irrational actors and not taking to account the reponse, makes this estimate highly suspect.

The lesson is I think economists need to also be cross-trained in psychology and sociology.

This thread inevitably invites the right-wing, psychic, crystal ball readers with information about future events that they pull straight out of their asses.

The report says only about 13% of world's population would migrate in such a scenario so there's no need to get your panties in a twist nobody is going to be taking your job or tell you Americans that the world is in fact round.

[Deleted]

Anyone with a basic understanding of economics will understand this.

The fact that immigrants/kids of immigrants outperform natives at schools is proof of that, just look at what's happening in the UK.

Why what's happening in the UK? As I said "If they say so" but personally I feel they're conveniently ignoring important variables. It reads like they think people are robots

[Sunseeker]

I think the number of assumptions required for this to be true is higher than the number of possible outcomes.

[Deleted]

This thread inevitably invites the right-wing, psychic, crystal ball readers with information about future events that they pull straight out of their asses.

The report says only about 13% of world's population would migrate in such a scenario so there's no need to get your panties in a twist nobody is going to be taking your job or tell you Americans that the world is in fact round.

And the intention behind the thread becomes crystal clear. Faux interest in a topic to fuel a senseless egotistical argument with everybody brimmed with unnecessary hostility

[Fibh]

Dumbest thing I've read in a while. And since I frequent mmo-champion that's saying a lot.

[zhero]

What do you think? The world would be a better place if anyone from any country was free to work in any country of their choice. Even low-skilled immigration can bring a multitude of benefits to an economy. Globalism is the future, nationalism is hindering progress.

i think its all lies and propaganda for self interest

[Raqubor]

I think the OP got shut down already quite nicely as the poll proves.
The whole idea is based an assumptions, and you know the saying...

One thing I agree on: To reach a planetary utopia, we need to work together to bring forth a better future. Thing is... it's impossible because of the huge economical differences and most importantly, the human nature.

I'm certain that when humans all die and an empire of AI takes our place, as machines will take emotion and self interest out of the equation, they will reach true equality.

[Spectral]

I'm not a right winger, and I am not worried about jobs. 13% of ~ 7 billion is 910,000,000. The influx creates stress on the social safety nets, and for people that are more prone to nationalistic fervor, they tend to stir and we get people like Trump in charge and Brexit.

Aside from these points (which I agree with wholeheartedly), I want to again note how absurd the faux-precision is. Really, 13%? Not 11% or 12%? Or 15%? Does anyone actually think that's an estimate that has any real validity?

[Deleted]

Its hard to live with a people whose whole way of thinking is: You are either a muslum or you are a pig. If you get raped you get stoned and so on and so forth.

But yes people keep saying the west is the problem kek

[Dalheim]

It could be. But it could also be -78Trillion poorer.

[Kuntantee]

Unskilled people will flood urbans, creating giant shitholes all over the world.

[d00mGuArD]

I think they wanted to type "free from immigration" but misstyped it

[Player Twelve]

It's a bunch of bullshit. That's what it is.

[igualitarist]

I can't agree with that, and i have my country as example. The main cause of favelas (slums) in Brazilian biggest cities is internal immigration. People from poorer and rural areas came in massive numbers into the most properous cities of the country looking for jobs opportunities and stuff. The result is that those cities could not support all the influx of immigrants and they ended up creating the favelas around those urban areas.

Now imagine this happening in global proportions ! I am damn sure it would be total chaos.